Your Experience with "Larry's Rings"
Comments
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Thanks DarqueKnight, that is awesome information! Thanks for sharing that. In a way that is a review of larry's rings but from other sources.
I have a bit of a cold today and it has made a difference in how I am hearing music and everything else. As I was sleepily hazy earlier I kept thinking about the pimped out shuttle. That actually is a great idea for acoustic testing.
A speaker floating is naturally decoupled completely. What effect would that have? And what effect would zero gravity have?
I bet with the right timing one day we can send Audiophiles into space to test it. I'm sure more than one Astronaught is an audiophiles and would volunteer.
Experiments on land can still be used. I have dehumidifier to dry out my tropical air. How does temperature and humidity effect acoustics?
I'm going to try and find out. At least it's fodder for my imagination, pimped out space station.Polk Audio SDA CRS+ crossover 4.1TL by Trey/VR3 (Rings and custom stand by Larry)-Polk Audio SDA SRS2 crossovers by Trey/VR3Parasound HCA1500aYamaha rxa-3070 with musicast-Celestion SL6S presence,- sl9 surround backNHTsuper1's surroundMagnepan SMGParasound 1500pre- Sofia "Baby" tube amp - Monitor Audio Silver RX2 Marantz 2230/B&Kst140Technics 1200mk2 Gamertag: IslandBerserker I am but a infinitesimally small point meeting the line of infinity in the SDA universe -
Thanks DarqueKnight, that is awesome information! Thanks for sharing that. In a way that is a review of larry's rings but from other sources.
I have a bit of a cold today and it has made a difference in how I am hearing music and everything else. As I was sleepily hazy earlier I kept thinking about the pimped out shuttle. That actually is a great idea for acoustic testing.
A speaker floating is naturally decoupled completely. What effect would that have? And what effect would zero gravity have?
I bet with the right timing one day we can send Audiophiles into space to test it. I'm sure more than one Astronaught is an audiophiles and would volunteer.
Experiments on land can still be used. I have dehumidifier to dry out my tropical air. How does temperature and humidity effect acoustics?
I'm going to try and find out. At least it's fodder for my imagination, pimped out space station.
This got me thinking. What does it sound like in space? I mean, you couldn't really tell inside of the space shuttle. I wonder if someone could engineer an astronaut helmet that allowed the astronaut to breathe but kept his ears free from being covered. That would be epic. -
you could annihilate enemy encroachments with the right sw...and larry's rings, of course
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intangible wrote: »From the passages you cited, it would appear that such rings can be a necessary improvement over standard baffle mounting in some cases and in some cases, such as the Concerti speakers, can prove unnecessary.
I think you misunderstood the meaning of what the Concerti manufacturer said. They did not say the rings were unnecessary, they said that they were able to design a significantly cost-reduced version (base version) of the speaker that didn't have the ring and that there was no adverse effect on the sound of the speaker without the ring. "No adverse effect on the sound" didn't mean the cost reduced version sounded just as good as the much more expensive ringed version. If that were true, there would have been no need to offer the ringed version as an option.DarqueKnight wrote: »In the attached review (top of page 11), Canadian speaker manufacturer Gemme Audio discusses the optional brass driver ring on their Concerti 108 speaker.
"The brass ring is a factory option. When we first introduced the Concerti, retail price was $4,700US (we thought the price was right because it was in the Cain & Cain bracket for a similar speaker, the IM-BEN with 108 driver). Stephen Monte from NAT Distribution, our US distributor, thought the American market would not be receptive to such a small speaker at that price so we had to cut costs somewhere to get the retail to $3,700.
There was no way we could drop the price without changing the basic design of a perfectly smooth horn path. So the ring had to go along with profit. But ring removal had to be compensated for with a beefier baffle board. So the baffle was redesigned using a full 1-inch plate (the suspended plate was 5/8th of an inch). There was no adverse effect on the sound and the ring is still offered as an option. That's why the new base-level Concerti doesn't have the ring."Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
I caught that too DK, "good enough to sell cheaper but for a couple of bucks you can have what we intended which is better"Polk Audio SDA CRS+ crossover 4.1TL by Trey/VR3 (Rings and custom stand by Larry)-Polk Audio SDA SRS2 crossovers by Trey/VR3Parasound HCA1500aYamaha rxa-3070 with musicast-Celestion SL6S presence,- sl9 surround backNHTsuper1's surroundMagnepan SMGParasound 1500pre- Sofia "Baby" tube amp - Monitor Audio Silver RX2 Marantz 2230/B&Kst140Technics 1200mk2 Gamertag: IslandBerserker I am but a infinitesimally small point meeting the line of infinity in the SDA universe
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.... "good enough to sell cheaper but for a couple of bucks you can have what we intended which is better"
Polk's co-founder and Polk's engineering department had a similar philosophy: "What we put on the market is great, but if you do these modifications you'll get what we originally designed."
Large, low DCR SDA inductors, premium film capacitors, higher grade resistors, additional mechanical damping, Mortite speaker seals, heavy duty AI-1 transformers, polyswitch removal, etc. are all Polk recommended tweaks.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DarqueKnight wrote: »Polk's co-founder and Polk's engineering department had a similar philosophy: "What we put on the market is great, but if you do these modifications you'll get what we originally designed."
Large, low DCR SDA inductors, premium film capacitors, higher grade resistors, additional mechanical damping, Mortite speaker seals, heavy duty AI-1 transformers, polyswitch removal, etc. are all Polk recommended tweaks.
I think that gets lost in the shuffle. New guys come here challenging, to a certain degree, all these upgrades/tweaks/mods, etc and they don't realize most of these ideas came stright from Matt or Stu or Ken or someone else involved in the long term development of SDA's and original Monitors. I think some newer people here who want to constantly challenge every little improvement should realize that. Or at least take it into consideration before spouting off and deriding many of the tried and true tweaks that have been performed 100's of times by many different people over the past 7-10 years with the direction of Matt and others.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Nicely said both of you!
There are parts of this thread to ignored, and other parts to sticky.Polk Audio SDA CRS+ crossover 4.1TL by Trey/VR3 (Rings and custom stand by Larry)-Polk Audio SDA SRS2 crossovers by Trey/VR3Parasound HCA1500aYamaha rxa-3070 with musicast-Celestion SL6S presence,- sl9 surround backNHTsuper1's surroundMagnepan SMGParasound 1500pre- Sofia "Baby" tube amp - Monitor Audio Silver RX2 Marantz 2230/B&Kst140Technics 1200mk2 Gamertag: IslandBerserker I am but a infinitesimally small point meeting the line of infinity in the SDA universe -
TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »Why?? Why is this so important to you that your putting so much energy into this?? Really just relax everyone is and will have their own opinions.
This is a discussion board, I come here to discuss things. When people are rude, I attempt to show them why their actions were rude, in hopes that they not be in the future. Obviously the success rate is low on the internet, but that's not a reason not to try.
Many individuals on this board do not have opinions, they have inarguable ironclad truths that they have unwavering faith in and throw in the face of anyone who does not see things the same way. It doesn't bother me until the throwing in the face part starts.Actually, it is you that has decided that numerical data is the answer to whether the rings actually work or not. No one else has made that argument. I (and the 40+ others) don't need a number to tell us what our ears hear.
Who is insulting you? Perhaps you took it as a personal attack. What I hear from installing the rings to the 3 sets of SDA's I own makes what the rings do as ironclad as the rings coupling the drivers to the speaker baffles; most excellent.
It seems you have an agenda to get those people who can hear a difference after the rings are installed to recognize that data is the real proof of what we are hearing. I would argue that is horse pucky. It may be different if only one person out of all the people who have bought Larry's rings heard a difference in sound coming from their speakers. As Jesse brought up though, that is not the case. There are more that 40 people who have heard a difference. How's that for some data? Are you trying to tell over 40 people that they are delusional unless there is data to back up the claims they hear an improvement after installing Larry's rings? Consider that if you will please.
Greg
In response to posts that claimed Audiocreative and I were deaf, unable to use tools, etc. because we did not hear the same improvements that others had, I made what seemed like a rather noninflammatory post at the time: "Those of you saying it is impossible for installing them not to lead to improvement are saying that it is impossible for the original screws to hold the drivers flush to the baffle. That is a pretty big claim", and several individuals told me that they could in fact verify that claim. I don't care whether you use numbers or not to decide what you hear. You do need actual data when you decide to tell me what I am hearing.audiocr381ve wrote: »This got me thinking. What does it sound like in space? I mean, you couldn't really tell inside of the space shuttle. I wonder if someone could engineer an astronaut helmet that allowed the astronaut to breathe but kept his ears free from being covered. That would be epic.
Outer space is close enough to a complete vacuum that there is essentially no sound. You need molecules through which to propagate sound waves.DarqueKnight wrote: »stuff
I read that second paragraph as saying that the removal of the ring was compensated for by increasing the baffle thickness from 5/8th of an inch to 1 inch. Doing so forced them to alter the horn path so as not to be perfectly smooth, which resulted in changes in the sound. The more expensive models keep the thinner baffle and ring, allowing the horn path to exist as originally designed. -
that's one long-**** post! you compensating for something?
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intangible wrote: »This is a discussion board, I come here to discuss things. When people are rude, I attempt to show them why their actions were rude, in hopes that they not be in the future. Obviously the success rate is low on the internet, but that's not a reason not to try.
You should henseforth be known as Ned Flanders, Internet Cop.
Good luck with that.:cheesygrin:The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
intangible wrote: »In response to posts that claimed Audiocreative and I were deaf, unable to use tools, etc. because we did not hear the same improvements that others had, I made what seemed like a rather noninflammatory post at the time: "Those of you saying it is impossible for installing them not to lead to improvement are saying that it is impossible for the original screws to hold the drivers flush to the baffle. That is a pretty big claim", and several individuals told me that they could in fact verify that claim. I don't care whether you use numbers or not to decide what you hear. You do need actual data when you decide to tell me what I am hearing.
Either you can hear the improvements or you can't, either you knew what you were doing when installing the rings or you didn't. It's not meant to be rude and insulting to tell you that if you cannot hear improvements that 40+ other people hear then you may have installed the rings incorrectly (unable to use tools), and/or you simply don't have the listening skills neede to hear the differences the rings make.
If you don't care whether I (and others) use numbers to verify what I am hearing, then why do you dispute the fact that 40+ people have heard the improvements?
If you need data to tell you what you are hearing, I would certainly argue that your listening skills need to be honed better. How does a number prove what you are hearing? Or, how does the lack of a number disprove what I am hearing?
Greg
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."![:\](https://forum.polkaudio.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
Either you can hear the improvements or you can't, either you knew what you were doing when installing the rings or you didn't. It's not meant to be rude and insulting to tell you that if you cannot hear improvements that 40+ other people hear then you may have installed the rings incorrectly (unable to use tools), and/or you simply don't have the listening skills neede to hear the differences the rings make.
If you need data to tell you what you are hearing, I would certainly argue that your listening skills need to be honed better. How does a number prove what you are hearing? Or, how does the lack of a number disprove what I am hearing?
You are far too fixated on the numbers aspect. The problem isn't the message, it is the way it is delivered. If the following post...
"It's difficult for me to believe anyone could properly complete this mod without hearing an improvement, the operative word being "properly".
-- Maybe the rings are not perfectly coupled to the inside of the baffle with glue/sawdust/etc. underneath.
-- Maybe there is something underneath the driver on the front of the baffle preventing proper coupling.
-- Maybe the screws aren't tight enough.
-- Maybe your source sucks or you are partially deaf.
. . . barring the above, it's impossible to not hear tangible improvement to sound quality after installing TFLF rings. "
...instead reads...
"Most of us heard noticeable improvements upon installing the rings. Those of you who did not may wish to check the following..."
...then there is no issue. When you start speaking with definitive terms like "impossible" and tossing thinly veiled insults then, after I suggest that you probably can't do that, assure me that you in fact can, you need to back your statements up. In this case, that will require actual data.
If you don't care whether I (and others) use numbers to verify what I am hearing, then why do you dispute the fact that 40+ people have heard the improvements?
I don't, and I'm not sure why you think I do. I attempted to explain this variance in experiences way back on page one, resulting in posts like the one I quoted above.
"I imagine the amount of change to the sound is directly related to how firmly anchored the drivers and passive were to the baffle to begin with, thus the variance in perceived improvement. Spikes are the same way. If you speakers were already stable, then spiking them won't do much. If they readily rocked back and forth like mine, spiking them is like buying a whole new set. " -
intangible wrote: ». . . they have inarguable ironclad truths that they have unwavering faith in and throw in the face of anyone who does not see things the same way . . .
Dude, trust me . . . the sun WILL rise tomorrow.VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
NAD SS rigs w/mods
GIK panels -
inspiredsports wrote: »Dude, trust me . . . the sun WILL rise tomorrow.
Can you back that up with numbers?? -
^ lmao2-ch System: Parasound P/LD 2000 pre, Parasound HCA-1000 amp, Parasound T/DQ Tuner, Phase Technology PC-100 Tower speakers, Technics SL-1600 Turntable, Denon 2910 SACD/CD player, Peachtree DAC iT and X1asynchorus USB converter, HSU VTF-3 subwoofer.
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The Sun Also Rises - Hemmingway, appropiately a fine bullfighting novel.
Lmao too. I would like proof that it rises. From where I'm standing and the direction I'm facing the world is upside down. Please don't tell me it's because I'm looking the wrong way. If you do prove to me that direction I'm facing would produce a directional view different from your own.
Ok, enough fun, I'm going to bed. I hope no one has any panties to dry in the sunless morning.Polk Audio SDA CRS+ crossover 4.1TL by Trey/VR3 (Rings and custom stand by Larry)-Polk Audio SDA SRS2 crossovers by Trey/VR3Parasound HCA1500aYamaha rxa-3070 with musicast-Celestion SL6S presence,- sl9 surround backNHTsuper1's surroundMagnepan SMGParasound 1500pre- Sofia "Baby" tube amp - Monitor Audio Silver RX2 Marantz 2230/B&Kst140Technics 1200mk2 Gamertag: IslandBerserker I am but a infinitesimally small point meeting the line of infinity in the SDA universe -
DarqueKnight wrote: »Polk's co-founder and Polk's engineering department had a similar philosophy: "What we put on the market is great, but if you do these modifications you'll get what we originally designed."
Large, low DCR SDA inductors, premium film capacitors, higher grade resistors, additional mechanical damping, Mortite speaker seals, heavy duty AI-1 transformers, polyswitch removal, etc. are all Polk recommended tweaks.
This is a great summation of why these tweaks should be done. If you want to hear all that these SDA's are capable of, just do them! :cool:
Hope you don't mind Ray, but I think I just found my new signature! :cheesygrin:"Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
I have read the posts and does everyone use Mortise or Armacell or or there replacement gaskets? What are the disadvantages of using hurricane nuts vs. Larry's rings? Easier? Better fit, etc.
I am going to recap my 7C's and while I am in there redo the inteface and add some hushmat, so just wanted to know.
Additionally what are people using to upgrade the exterior speaker connections? -
I have read the posts and does everyone use Mortise or Armacell or or there replacement gaskets? What are the disadvantages of using hurricane nuts vs. Larry's rings? Easier? Better fit, etc.
I am going to recap my 7C's and while I am in there redo the inteface and add some hushmat, so just wanted to know.
Additionally what are people using to upgrade the exterior speaker connections?
Many here feel armacell is the better option, though mortite has worked quite well for me. I did switch to armacell and, if there is an improvement I can't hear it. With armacell it's definitely easier to remove drivers should you need to get inside the cabinet after installing it.
I haven't seen a direct comparison between Hurricane nuts and Larry's rings so can't help you there. They both do essentially the same thing, which is provide stronger coupling of the drivers to the front baffle.
Re: binding posts, I used the Cardas that are billet copper with gold plating from Sonicraft. There are lots of other options as well.
Good luck!"Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
How would a guy go about getting some of Larry's Rings?
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How would a guy go about getting some of Larry's Rings?
ya gotta sign a marketing release form... -
PM me!!!
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dupe post
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.... yawn ....
Larry's rings are awesome.
So are Larry's limited edition speaker spikes.
So are Larry's 1.2TL crossover plates. I have a pair of those and I don't even have 1.2TL's. Bought 'em just in case I ever end up with 1.2TL's.
Larry's SDA CRS+ stands are to kill for. If anyone has a pair of them, watch your back, because I want 'em!
As for anyone trying to suggest otherwise... yawn...Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
TOOLFORLIFEFAN,
I left you a message in Visitor Messages. I'm not "old" enough to PM you. Thanks! -
So TOOLFORLIFEFAN your are the guy to contact?
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Yep!!!
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Wow, F1nut.....your #13 post? Are you serious? Then others agree with you? You guys are creepy, children and unprofessional. If your insurance covers it......get help.
New proud owner of a pair of SDA 1's
Decware Torii MK III coming soon.........Sony Tport>Illuminati D-60>Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro>Prophecy Cryo-Silver Reference i2s>Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0 w/remote wand>Kimber Select 1030>Decware Zen Select Amp (SE84CS)>Kimber Select 3033> SDA 1/in Stereo only
Sony Tport>IllumD-60>AA DTI Pro 32>AudMagicMysticRef i2s>AA DDE 3.0> Kimber Hero Int>Rotel RA-1062>Kimber Timbre>EmotivaXPA2>Kimber 8TC Speaker Cable>SDA SRS 1.2/use SDA always>Kimber 9033 to/hi Pass jumpers> Kimber PK10 Palladian Power Cord to Rotel -
Wow... just wow. That crap was uncalled for Stone, especially for somebody that has no clue about anything regarding SDA's just yet. These speakers and every aspect of their performance has been refined and tested over many years by the folks here, including F1. For you to come after his experience with your complete lack of any experience at all is arrogance beyond belief. Good luck with that path...
Then you call us all creepy children and unprofessional? If that's truly how you feel, then leave. Great way to get others to help you out with your speakers, or anything else for that matter.
Waste not your reply, as you are ignored.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
