Your Experience with "Larry's Rings"

audiocr381ve

I finally got around to installing Larry's Rings last week. I was curious to hear about different experiences from those who have them installed.

My ear has calibrated itself to my system in my less-than-ideal room (although I can listen all day with out fatigue with much enjoyment ). So any changes I hear are very apparent. I get to spend a ton of time with my speakers because I work at home most days.

I really don't have anything negative or positive to say about the rings as of now. They were a PITA to install for a guy like me who has limited tools/experience and no garage. I had to modify two of the 6.5" steel rings to get them in place which involved taking a hack saw to them which wasn't fun. In most cases that was the fun part, but I'm so backed up on projects at work that the 5-6 hours it took was a pain.

Sonically speaking, the only thing I noticed was decreased bass response. Not much, but I'm sure it's there. I wonder if this is something others have experienced? I could not discern any difference in clarity from top to bottom.

Next mods are the binding posts and custom SDA cable. I think I've done everything else :afro Take care guys, have a fun week!

rromeo923

Installation took me 2-3 hrs. I too had to cut a couple of the 6.5's due to one cabinet's center bracing being off center. I used bolt cutters.

I heard tighter bass and more clarity throughout. The change was subtle but definitely an improvement. Previously I felt that my right speaker had more bass than the left. After the install they were much better matched.

chandler9a

thanks for sharing your first impressions guys...what are you using? Mortite? Armacill? Original gaskets?

Just curious as I am in the process of installing the rings myself. Those tweeters can be a pain but I'm happy that there are no more stripped screws in the cabinets.

intangible

I didn't notice any difference in the sound, but the peace of mind of replacing a few almost-stripped screw holes is great. I also had to modify two of the 6.5" ones, only I didn't have a hack saw, so I tried to bend them. Bad idea. I wound up having to plug one hole with blu-tack to seal the cabinet up. At some point, I am going to replace those two with hurricane nuts.

cincycat13

I have not done my SDAs yet. I did do my RTAs to learn.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?117930-added-Larry-s-Rings-to-my-RTA15TL-today&p=1558031#post1558031

I added dynamat and swapped to the RDO 198s at the same time so I really can't add on what caused the improvements I got. I can say it was nice to get rid of the wood screws the previous owner had upsized to for stripped screw holes.

Someone did a better write up in the DIY area including the drill bit size to use. If you have the rings and have not installed them yet it is worth a search to make sure you have the tools laid out for the job. I too used the hacksaw method.

here's one
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?121653-Installing-Driver-Support-Rings-on-5B-s

Mr. Bubbles

Sonically speaking, the only thing I noticed was decreased bass response.

I don't see how the installation of the rings (all else being equal) could have this effect. However let me state that i have no experience with the rings. But using the rings should be very similar in function to using hurricane or T nuts. I am not sure of the gauge or stiffness of the ring itself but from a fastener standpoint anything that sandwiches the baffle between the driver basket and the inside fastener is going to couple the driver to the cabinet and stiffen and deaden that whole area. this will kill some vibration and prevent others. it will also stand to compress the seal behind the driver better for a more complete seal.

I would think something else happened during the installation. maybe a damaged seal/ gasket or maybe a loose wire.
also you may need to re-tighten the driver fasteners; when i installed the t-nuts on mine i had to tighten in stages to allow the gasket to compress properly. This had a great effect on bass output.

heiney9

I have been using the rings in my 5B's for awhile as a precursor to installing them in my 1C's. Bass is much better defined and deeper, even though at times it seems it's not there as much as before (if that makes any sense). I use my office rig in a spare room where I have some dressers. The pewter handles on the dressers never used to rattle/vibrate before I put the rings in the 5B's. Now with the same familiar music at the same levels the handles vibrate occasionally. Deeper, more well defined and extended bass is the reason.

Perhaps you comment about "less bass" is more about better defined bass and less sloppy than before. Many times less = more, better. You need to spend more time listening to a variety of music, especially music with some real bass content. I think you'll find it's still there, when it supposed to be.

H9

pitdogg2

well the rings for me made a huge difference for the better. Yes my cabinets must of been made on Friday or Monday as i had to modify a few. A 4 1/2" hand grinder was called for to make things easy. I also made a little jig on my workbench with nails to hold the rings. Grind a little check fit repeat. All in all very satisfied.

Toolfan66

You guys that have fit-up issues should be emailing me, send me pics what is causing the problem I just might be able to change something (help you out..) and those of you that don't have the tools to modifiy if you send me pics of what needs to be modified I can help you out and for 1) walk you through it 2) modifiy rings and send them to you..

The models I have done are:

SDA 1.2/1.2TL
1C's
CRS+
2B's /tl two sets..
3.1's
7B's
10B's

The only ones I had to moifiy are the 3.1's just a couple of rings.. I know a couple of people had to modifiy a couple of rings in their 1C's because of the center brace was off center..

Toolfan66

I would also like to hear what gear you guys are using as well.. Lack of bass has not been a issue with any of these speakers, It is more refined tighter and placed well within the front stage. for lack of better words it's not muddy or smeared within the stage..

I forgot to mention I have done two sets of 2B's with rings as well. No issues with install on them as well..

pitdogg2

Larry My SDA2a's was easy peasy slick as a whistle, But My SDA1 Signatures was different all because of the middle brace and both were as different as night and day. I for one do not know if you really want to get into trying to make them for all the bracing that seems to be different in every speaker. If that is what you're saying. Some of these are not a drop in but with a minimum of work they fit like a glove.

It's just the nature of the beast. 99.999% of us are VERY HAPPY you did this so for me i expected to have to do a little work on my end.
Ivan

Toolfan66

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Larry My SDA2a's was easy peasy slick as a whistle, But My SDA1 Signatures was different all because of the middle brace and both were as different as night and day. I for one do not know if you really want to get into trying to make them for all the bracing that seems to be different in every speaker. If that is what you're saying. Some of these are not a drop in but with a minimum of work they fit like a glove.

It's just the nature of the beast. 99.999% of us are VERY HAPPY you did this so for me i expected to have to do a little work on my end.
Ivan

Yeah but not everyone is a handy man or they just don't have the tools..I agree it's not that hard..also if I can make one change and that helps them fit even more speakers with out much or any work then all the better..

F1nut

If someone installs Larry's rings and does not notice an immediate improvement in mid-range clarity and bass response, that someone has done something wrong as the improvements are not subtle.

As for the installation, yeah it takes time and yeah, sometimes adjustments are needed. It also requires the right tools and the knowledge to use them. These things should be apparent from the start.

nooshinjohn

Agree 110% with F1. I had zero difficulty installing them in my 2.3's... the improvement was immediate and best of all, there was no break-in required!

audiocr381ve

I shouldn't have said there were no "positives." I'm with intangible on this. I didn't hear an improvement in sound but having peace of mind knowing that I won't have to worry about stripped screw holes in the future was worth it.

heiney9

I dunno what's up with your room, gear or listening abilities. You said the same thing about the spikes, that you didn't hear a difference. Most if not all have heard subtle to profound differences in both using the rings and/or spikes . Not sure what conclusion to draw. We all hear things differently and also put more or less emphasis on parts of the sound we like/dislke. I guess as long as you aren't going backwards..............no change after all the tweaks can't be all bad.

gimpod

F1nut wrote: »

If someone installs Larry's rings and does not notice an immediate improvement in mid-range clarity and bass response, that someone has done something wrong as the improvements are not subtle.

As for the installation, yeah it takes time and yeah, sometimes adjustments are needed. It also requires the right tools and the knowledge to use them. These things should be apparent from the start.

I have to agree with this statement. If your going to do this you need to have the proper tools and the skill to use them. Now I did have to cut the flat side off of 4 of the 6 1/2 inch rings for my 1C's only because the brace was off center and it was no big deal. A Dremal and 2 cut off wheels job done. I think it was harder and took more time removing the massive amounts of excess glue that Polk used.

The only way I can think of to make these idiot proof would be for Larry to make them 2 piece 1/4 arc kind of like the tweeter brackets. But I don't think they would work as well and then there's a saying I learned when I got into writing software back in the late 80's.

"If you design something that any idiot can use only idiot's will use it"

In the end I have to say that I think when comes to modding your speakers Larry's ring's are one of the biggest bang for you buck mods you can do. Well worth the coin.

intangible

The rings I got were fine. The center bracing wasn't completely centered, so one ring per speaker couldn't align properly with the holes. Grinders are expensive relative to the rings, and cutting down the brace seemed like more trouble than it was worth, so I did what I could to make them fit with what I had on hand. Some of you could stand to chill out. Just because I chose not to cut the rings down doesn't mean I can't use a hammer.

I imagine the amount of change to the sound is directly related to how firmly anchored the drivers and passive were to the baffle to begin with, thus the variance in perceived improvement. Spikes are the same way. If you speakers were already stable, then spiking them won't do much. If they readily rocked back and forth like mine, spiking them is like buying a whole new set.

heiney9

intangible wrote: »

If you speakers were already stable, then spiking them won't do much. If they readily rocked back and forth like mine, spiking them is like buying a whole new set.

Simply not true, it's about de-coupling them from the floor/carpet. Has very little to do with stability other than if prior to spikes your speakers were not stable. Even a rock solid pair placed directly on carpet/flooring will benefit greatly by properly adding spikes.

H9

intangible

My understanding is that spiking speakers couples them to the floor. Isolation pads and such decouple them. First result on Google:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-spikes-and-cones-2013-what2019s-the-point

I am really not interested in discussing the matter, however, so let's leave it at that.

chandler9a

I have to say I some trouble getting all of the rings to fit easily in place and it took some extra cutting/shaving of braces on the 1.2TL's.

This was not because of any design flaw in the rings, its just the way it is. Braces are not always centered, holes I drilled were not always or ever perfect, and any number of factors come up. All in all it takes a little work but hopefully I secured them properly.

Great mod provided by Larry even if it ONLY fixes the stripped screw problem...I suspect the benefits will prove to be much more than just that once I get to hear them however.

heiney9

Nm...............

sda2mike

my 2b's req a cut to each ring...as with others, mine had a brace that was in the way..larry and some other polksters were very helpful..sonically, the lower end is tighter and more defined...it's a great mod to do with spikes...the best part is that you're cabinet won't be needing a pita repair dow the road

headrott

I think Jesse pretty much summed it up with his post. The difference in sound is not subtle. Either there is a problem with how your drivers are fastened to the rings or how the rings are installed. It seems pretty straight forward how to install the rings though. The toughest ones I put in were in the 3.1TL's. I had to modify the cabinets and rings themselves (I also used a hacksaw). Not difficult, but time consuming (a little). So far I have installed them into my 2BTL's, 3.1TL's and 2.3TL's. The audio improvement (clarity in mid-range) is phenominal. There is no way you should have less bass. As Brock said, the bass might be cleaner sounding and so you may feel like it's less of it. That is not the case though, it's just more articulate and cleaner sounding and therefore may be perceived as less bass because it's less bloated and muddy. My thoughts anyway on it.

Greg

F1nut

intangible wrote: »

I am really not interested in discussing the matter, however, so let's leave it at that.

The mind is like a parachute, they only work when open.

Toolfan66

intangible wrote: »

I am really not interested in discussing the matter, however, so let's leave it at that.

Then why post a link? better yet why post at all??

heiney9

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

Then why post a link? better yet why post at all??

He wanted to get the last word...............you remember those types back in grade school, don't you.

H9

audiocr381ve

heiney9 wrote: »

I dunno what's up with your room, gear or listening abilities. You said the same thing about the spikes, that you didn't hear a difference. Most if not all have heard subtle to profound differences in both using the rings and/or spikes . Not sure what conclusion to draw. We all hear things differently and also put more or less emphasis on parts of the sound we like/dislke. I guess as long as you aren't going backwards..............no change after all the tweaks can't be all bad.

Homie I don't know what the heck is wrong with you, but I repeatedly said that I loved the spike mod and continuously promote them around here. What's wrong with your attitude and reading abilities?

I honestly wonder if you even know how big of a **** you are some times!

F1nut

I'm getting some popcorn, anyone need a soda while I'm up?

audiocr381ve

Keiko wrote: »

Unbelievable! Larry does something cool for the club community and all some do is post crap like this and whine about it.

Did you get yours for free? Didn't think so. Whether it was out of doing something for the community or for making a little profit...fine. At the end of the day it's sold goods, and products are to be reviewed. Nobody whined (for me it was clearly stated that I'm not exactly a handy man), and it seems like everybody had a good end result with the rings including myself so relax.

george daniel

kinda late,,but the rings definitely tightened up the bass/midbass on my 1C's. A valuable aftermarket product/tweak that just takes the speaker up a notch,,as with crossover upgrades and tweeter replacement. For me it is a must have if you plan to keep your SDA's. We had a pair at Carverfest that belonged to trietz,which he obtained from someone here,,the soundstage was huge,,IIRC they were the full tilt boogie version.