Your Experience with "Larry's Rings"

audiocr381ve

Keiko wrote: »

Yeah, just like the other ****, I need to check my attitude and reading abilities. :rolleyes:

That was almost clever, almost.

intangible

If I thought a discussion of spikes would yield any sort of analytical thought, I wouldn't mind hearing it, but I've read way too many topics on cables or capacitors or ABX testing or what have you on these boards to believe it would be anything of the sort. Any unpopular idea on these boards is met only with insults or equally vapid posts much like this topic has devolved into.

Since we're already there, though, I suppose things could only get better. Why do you think spikes minimize force transfer between the speaker and the floor? That is rather unintuitive, given the traditional uses of wedges. The advantage of having a stable loudspeaker seem obvious, as does the use of spikes to give greater stability, but I can draw a force diagram when I have some time later if you would like.

dorokusai

I also found an improvement in the mid-bass region. Installation wasn't flawless but I've had worse. It's probably the best investment next to RD tweeters that you could get, even above xover modifications since they aren't really needed.

nooshinjohn

F1nut wrote: »

I'm getting some popcorn, anyone need a soda while I'm up?

If you have a beer, I could go for one of those.

rromeo923

dorokusai wrote: »

I also found an improvement in the mid-bass region. Installation wasn't flawless but I've had worse. It's probably the best investment next to RD tweeters that you could get, even above xover modifications since they aren't really needed.

For me the RDO tweeter upgrade was by far the best upgrade I have done. The rings and spikes and armacell are good low cost upgrades that definitely helped. Sonically though, replacing the sl2000's made the most and best difference. I am thinking about doing xover upgrade and am very interested to hear why you find this to be unnecessary. From what I have read the xover mod is one that makes the most difference in a good way.

heiney9

X-over upgrade made a HUGE difference in both pairs of vintage Polks I own.

Doro likes to go against the grain. He has advocated swapping, upgrading inductors so I'm not sure why he is against x-over upgrades other than some here say it's absolutely necessary to enjoy the speakers. It's not absolutely necessary but if one is on the path of upgrading already and is looking for a large improvement in sound, x-over mods should be done. You will be rewarded.

H9

drumminman

I didn't use Larry's Rings, but I did install 8-32 Hurricane Nuts with cap screws and SS washers. Intuitively I'm guessing these produce similar results. It's been awhile so I'm not sure my audio memory is good enough to pick out the specific changes, but it seems like it did tighten things up a bit.

Re: Xover mods, for me it's a no-brainer. If you use quality caps and resistors it takes the speakers (in my case 2.3TL's) to a higher lever of accuracy, imaging and openness.

The mods I've done that yielded the most significant improvement are:

RD-0198 tweeter - massively better than the SL3000's from the very beginning, without burn in

Xover mods - another huge improvement, though it took many hours to fully burn in and develop consistence

New IC cable with binding post - another really good improvement. I suspect part of the reason for this is that the wiring had been tampered with by a previous owner resulting in poor/loose connections. I fixed this as part of the tweak. Result was improved bass response and imaging.

16 mH Solen Inductors - improved imaging, sweeter smoother sound. They have around 90 hours on them say the changes may continue to evolve. With these in place I'm not sure how much better these speakers can sound!

High Resolution Speaker Cable Filters - I built these several years ago and, though their not specific to these speakers, I cant imagine taking them out. Never knew I had the grunge they removed until it was gone!

Solid brass speaker cones - just got mine from meniscus so haven't put in a lot of listening yet, but what I've heard so far is greater mid range and bass clarity. Not necessarily louder bass, but smoother and more present if that makes sense.

Armacell gaskets - I replaced the mortite I had used previously with this. Can't say I heard an improvement, but it's easier to dissassemble things for further tweaking.

Conradicles

I thought it was a great upgrade on the SDA-1C's I installed them on. Cleaner bass response and improved midrange separation. Great job again Larry!!!

inspiredsports

F1nut wrote: »

The mind is like a parachute, they only work when open.

synonyn for intangible; streamer

inspiredsports

It's difficult for me to believe anyone could properly complete this mod without hearing an improvement, the operative word being "properly".

-- Maybe the rings are not perfectly coupled to the inside of the baffle with glue/sawdust/etc. underneath.
-- Maybe there is something underneath the driver on the front of the baffle preventing proper coupling.
-- Maybe the screws aren't tight enough.
-- Maybe your source sucks or you are partially deaf.

. . . barring the above, it's impossible to not hear tangible improvement to sound quality after installing TFLF rings.

headrott

inspiredsports wrote: »

It's difficult for me to believe anyone could properly complete this mod without hearing an improvement, the operative word being "properly".

-- Maybe the rings are not perfectly coupled to the inside of the baffle with glue/sawdust/etc. underneath.
-- Maybe there is something underneath the driver on the front of the baffle preventing proper coupling.
-- Maybe the screws aren't tight enough.
-- Maybe your source sucks or you are partially deaf.

. . . barring the above, it's impossible to not hear tangible improvement to sound quality after installing TFLF rings.

Yep to the above.

Greg

audiocr381ve

inspiredsports wrote: »

It's difficult for me to believe anyone could properly complete this mod without hearing an improvement, the operative word being "properly".

-- Maybe the rings are not perfectly coupled to the inside of the baffle with glue/sawdust/etc. underneath.
-- Maybe there is something underneath the driver on the front of the baffle preventing proper coupling.
-- Maybe the screws aren't tight enough.
-- Maybe your source sucks or you are partially deaf.

. . . barring the above, it's impossible to not hear tangible improvement to sound quality after installing TFLF rings.

The partially deaf are those who hear changes and call them improvements.

headrott

audiocr381ve wrote: »

The partially deaf are those who hear changes and call them improvements.

Huh?

Greg

audiocr381ve

headrott wrote: »

Huh?

Greg

Exactly! :biggrin:

george daniel

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

rromeo923

Sound is so subjective as everyone's hearing and likes and dislikes are different. I have definitely had some experiences that have gone against the grain. I personally did hear an improvement when I installed Larry's Rings. However, to each his own. As long as a person is speaking truthfully I am interested in their opinion even if it is in opposition to mine.

drumminman

rromeo923 wrote: »

Sound is so subjective as everyone's hearing and likes and dislikes are different. I have definitely had some experiences that have gone against the grain. I personally did hear an improvement when I installed Larry's Rings. However, to each his own. As long as a person is speaking truthfully I am interested in their opinion even if it is in opposition to mine.

Agreed. If someone is not hearing something that most do, it can lead to productive discussion. It can also she light on some other issue within the speaker system.

Now, if it's just about trolling . . . :frown:

intangible

The rings do two things: prevent the drivers from vibrating out of phase with the baffle and prevent the screw holes from stripping. They do it very well, but that's all they do. Those of you saying it is impossible for installing them not to lead to improvement are saying that it is impossible for the original screws to hold the drivers flush to the baffle. That is a pretty big claim.

inspiredsports

And a claim that can absolutely be substantiated.

nooshinjohn

intangible wrote: »

The rings do two things: prevent the drivers from vibrating out of phase with the baffle and prevent the screw holes from stripping. They do it very well, but that's all they do. Those of you saying it is impossible for installing them not to lead to improvement are saying that it is impossible for the original screws to hold the drivers flush to the baffle. That is a pretty big claim.

There is a reason the final version of the 1.2TL went to threaded inserts and nuts to secure the drivers to the baffle. Larry's rings perform a similar function, but do so in a more elegant manner IMHO.

F1nut

Those of you saying it is impossible for installing them not to lead to improvement are saying that it is impossible for the original screws to hold the drivers flush to the baffle. That is a pretty big claim.

It is impossible for the stock screws to couple the drivers to the baffle in the way the rings do. It's all about torque and creating a much tighter seal.

The fact that you effed up your install is the most likely reason you did not notice an improvement.

helipilotdoug

Have done 3 sets of speakers (SDA 2B, SDA 2A, and SRS 2) with Larry's rings, and must say the improvements are exactly as Jesse said there is improvement in mid-range clarity and bass response. Sometimes there has been some fitting required to get around bracing etc. inside the cabinets, but with a little thought and work everything came out great. The cost of the rings and tweeter brackets is well worth it! Thank YOU Larry! :biggrin: BTW, still have one more set to go, Monitor 10A's.

Toolfan66

Cool a ring debate!!!! For those of you that "know" thank you!!!

Just like cables gear plays a big role on how well you hear the tweeks you do!!!

intangible

inspiredsports wrote: »

And a claim that can absolutely be substantiated.

F1nut wrote: »

It is impossible for the stock screws to couple the drivers to the baffle in the way the rings do. It's all about torque and creating a much tighter seal.

The fact that you effed up your install is the most likely reason you did not notice an improvement.

By all means, please explain. I've looked around a bit trying to find the force required to remove a screw from mdf, but can't find any numbers.

Edit: If you would also care to explain why the rings cease to function with only three bolts in place, I would also be interested.

audiocr381ve

george daniel wrote: »

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

+100

F1nut

By all means, please explain. I've looked around a bit trying to find the force required to remove a screw from mdf, but can't find any numbers.

Remove, no. It's about how much torque one can apply when tightening down the screw/bolt.

BTW, unless you have one of the TL models, your baffles are basically particleboard, not MDF.

Edit: If you would also care to explain why the rings cease to function with only three bolts in place, I would also be interested.

Without equal pressure, the basket rim will not seat properly causing air to leak and completely defeat the purpose of the rings, which is to create maximum coupling with the baffle.

F1nut

For the two of you that did not notice an improvement, please consider this. You've got 40 some folks here that noticed an vast improvement, so logic and basic percentages dictate that you did something wrong with your install or have other issues with your speakers.

audiocr381ve

F1nut wrote: »

For the two of you that did not notice an improvement, please consider this. You've got 40 some folks here that noticed an vast improvement, so logic and basic percentages dictate that you did something wrong with your install or have other issues with your speakers.

That's fair. Now when people start hurling insults or making snide comments is when things get ugly. Club Polk has to be one of the most out of control audio forums on the web and there are a few who need to grow up.

I'm going to re-check my install and make sure everything was done properly.

intangible

The goal is to prevent the driver assembly from vibrating out of phase with the baffle. I posted this earlier without any issue, so I assume we are on the same page here. For this to occur, the screws have to become unseated from the baffle. The amount of torque applied to the screws has little relevance here, as enough torque can be applied to the screws to have them seated firmly on the driver basket. I have done it. Therefore, what you are asserting when you claim that it is impossible for the rings not to improve the sound is that the screws do not have sufficient holding power in the baffle material (apparently particleboard in my case) to withstand the force produced by the driver without coming unseated.

On the three versus four points of contact: three points is sufficient to apply equal pressure in a plane. Further screws only serve to reduce amount of force each screw bears, which isn't an issue with such small drivers. My cabinets are not leaking air around those drivers; I have checked.

F1nut

You are mistaken in all of your assumptions.