Your Experience with "Larry's Rings"

Toolfan66

Agreed^^^^^

Toolfan66

There is no way you are going to tighten down a screw into the MDF/partical board as you would with the rings or T-nuts, even the threaded inserts that were in my 1.2tl's were pulling out a little and were never flush that's what gave me the idea to do the rings in the first place..

intangible

F1nut wrote: »

You are mistaken in all of your assumptions.

Why? This is why I was not interested in discussing how spikes work. A large portion of the individuals on this site know that they are correct on every issue, so they make arrogant responses like that, which accomplish nothing. If you can't even explain how my understanding of the system is faulty, how well do you really understand it yourself.

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

There is no way you are going to tighten down a screw into the MDF/partical board as you would with the rings or T-nuts, even the threaded inserts that were in my 1.2tl's were pulling out a little and were never flush that's what gave me the idea to do the rings in the first place..

Of course not, but the comparison is not between a screw's holding power in particleboard vs a bolt's holding power in a threaded socket, it is between the screw's holding power and force applied to it by the motion of the driver.

I have no doubt that your speakers and a lot of others had screws coming loose. The improvement upon installing the rings says as much. I did not have screws coming loose, and did not notice an improvement. The conclusion to draw seems obvious, and I did so on the last page. A large number of people then told me I was wrong, that it was absolutely impossible for the drivers to be held flush with the original screws, and that they could explain why. That's where we are now.

F1nut

intangible wrote: »

Why? This is why I was not interested in discussing how spikes work. A large portion of the individuals on this site know that they are correct on every issue, so they make arrogant responses like that, which accomplish nothing. If you can't even explain how my understanding of the system is faulty, how well do you really understand it yourself.

I already explained it in posts 55 and 60, therefore my comment in post 64 was not arrogant in the least.

I have no doubt that your speakers and a lot of others had screws coming loose.

All the screws in my SDA's were as tight as the day they left the factory.

that it was absolutely impossible for the drivers to be held flush with the original screws,

No one said the stock screws did not hold the drivers flush, they said that the stock screws cannot COUPLE the drivers to the baffle as iron fisted as the rings do.

intangible

Alright, you think that being able to apply more torque to the bolts makes it impossible for screws to prevent out of phase vibrations of the driver assembly relative to the baffle. I have already written two posts explaining why I do not think this is the case. Now, you read those posts and then either say, "Those are good points I hadn't considered." or "I disagree, and here is why..." I will then read your posts and do the same. This is how discussion works. I found your last post arrogant, because you did not address my previous posts and simply told me I was wrong again.

What is the difference between holding the drivers flush with the baffle and "coupling" the drivers to the baffle? "Couple" is a rather vague term. I have been using the more descriptive "driver assembly vibrating in phase with the baffle," but perhaps you mean something different. Please try to put your idea into a thorough description of the system.

There are other explanations for why you would have heard a difference after installing the rings, but I'm sure you have heard them before, so lets focus this discussion on the mechanics of the driver assembly and baffle. I think that will prove more interesting.

headrott

audiocr381ve wrote: »

Exactly! :biggrin:

Very witty. If your ears matched your wit, then I might pay attention to your s*hit. But, being as I don't think you can or want to admit you can really hear the differences the rings produce I will pass on taking your comments and witty reply seriously.

Greg

headrott

intangible wrote: »

Alright, you think that being able to apply more torque to the bolts makes it impossible for screws to prevent out of phase vibrations of the driver assembly relative to the baffle. I have already written two posts explaining why I do not think this is the case. Now, you read those posts and then either say, "Those are good points I hadn't considered." or "I disagree, and here is why..." I will then read your posts and do the same. This is how discussion works. I found your last post arrogant, because you did not address my previous posts and simply told me I was wrong again.

What is the difference between holding the drivers flush with the baffle and "coupling" the drivers to the baffle? "Couple" is a rather vague term. I have been using the more descriptive "driver assembly vibrating in phase with the baffle," but perhaps you mean something different. Please try to put your idea into a thorough description of the system.

There are other explanations for why you would have heard a difference after installing the rings, but I'm sure you have heard them before, so lets focus this discussion on the mechanics of the driver assembly and baffle. I think that will prove more interesting.

Think about it logically and visualize it in your mind. You have the drivers fastened to the front of the baffle with force being applied to one side of the driver (the original way they came). After installing the rings, you then have force being applied to both sidesof the driver (front and back) because the rings "wedge" the driver to the baffle as you tighten the screws on the rings. I hope that is clear, if not maybe someone else can explain it better than I.

Greg

F1nut

intangible wrote: »

Alright, you think that being able to apply more torque to the bolts makes it impossible for screws to prevent out of phase vibrations of the driver assembly relative to the baffle. I have already written two posts explaining why I do not think this is the case. Now, you read those posts and then either say, "Those are good points I hadn't considered." or "I disagree, and here is why..." I will then read your posts and do the same. This is how discussion works. I found your last post arrogant, because you did not address my previous posts and simply told me I was wrong again.

Talk about arrogant!

What is the difference between holding the drivers flush with the baffle and "coupling" the drivers to the baffle? "Couple" is a rather vague term. I have been using the more descriptive "driver assembly vibrating in phase with the baffle," but perhaps you mean something different. Please try to put your idea into a thorough description of the system.

I'll say a few more things and then I'm done because I'm tired of your passive/agressive style. Couple is not a vague term, it is a very specific and in this case, the correct term. When you couple something you join or bond the items together. As I said, very specific. When something is flush it means it sits level to another surface. It also is a very specific term.

There are other explanations for why you would have heard a difference after installing the rings, but I'm sure you have heard them before, so lets focus this discussion on the mechanics of the driver assembly and baffle. I think that will prove more interesting.

I already offered two possible and quite logical reasons as to why you didn't hear a difference. Perhaps you should install the rings correctly before voicing your opinions on the matter.

intangible

The drivers are mounted flush to the baffle. If the drivers are properly coupled to the baffle, they will remain flush during use. The two are interchangeable terms in this case. This isn't really relevant, however, because I have already told you in much more specific terms what I am talking about. You are talking in circles, dodging the issue. We are discussing why screws are unable to properly couple the driver basket to baffle.

Similarly, I already addressed your concerns with the way my rings are installed in post 63. There can't be any discussion on the subject without you reading what I write and responding to it.

If you feel the need to tell me I am wrong in the future, please do it in a respectful fashion and be prepared to explain why. The vague statements you've made in this topic tell me that you have given no thought to the matter, took a half-passable explanation somewhere as gospel, and are now parroting it. I have no issue with being corrected if it helps me learn something, but your unwillingness to actually discuss anything makes your posts in this topic useless.

Toolfan66

I would still like to know the list of gear your using?? Just curious more then anything as with higher end cables I believe the gear could really hold back what one hears just as higher end gear could be held back by lower end cables. It really comes down to synergy with everything.

I am a believer that everything matters in this hobby, and this could be just a case of that we all hear things different..

intangible

I had the speakers with rings installed running with DACMagic -> Atlantic Technology P-2000 -> EL34 SET amp I built/B&K ST-1400 -> SDA-2B for a few months but have moved them to my bedroom. Now it is Mav Audio D1 -> SET amp/GFA-535 -> SDAs.

audiocr381ve

headrott wrote: »

Very witty. If your ears matched your wit, then I might pay attention to your s*hit. But, being as I don't think you can or want to admit you can really hear the differences the rings produce I will pass on taking your comments and witty reply seriously.

Greg

Feisty! Oh such hurtful words! ....not.

headrott

audiocr381ve wrote: »

Feisty! Oh such hurtful words! ....not.

I was not trying to be hurtful at all. I was simply trying to deflate your ego, and say that your comments should not be taken seriously.

Greg

headrott

intangible wrote: »

The drivers are mounted flush to the baffle. If the drivers are properly coupled to the baffle, they will remain flush during use. The two are interchangeable terms in this case. This isn't really relevant, however, because I have already told you in much more specific terms what I am talking about. You are talking in circles, dodging the issue. We are discussing why screws are unable to properly couple the driver basket to baffle.

Similarly, I already addressed your concerns with the way my rings are installed in post 63. There can't be any discussion on the subject without you reading what I write and responding to it.

If you feel the need to tell me I am wrong in the future, please do it in a respectful fashion and be prepared to explain why. The vague statements you've made in this topic tell me that you have given no thought to the matter, took a half-passable explanation somewhere as gospel, and are now parroting it. I have no issue with being corrected if it helps me learn something, but your unwillingness to actually discuss anything makes your posts in this topic useless.

If you don't understand what is being discussed yet, you simply won't or don't want to and have other intentions. You should come to a conclusion which it is and stop "beating around the bush".

Greg

intangible

It quite literally says what was being discussed in the quote you posted. There was also a side conversion on whether three screws were sufficient to hold the driver flush.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to post that. If you would like to pick up the discussion where f1nut refused to, then go for it. The last posts with any substance were 63 and 67. If you are not interested in this discussion, then I would ask you the same thing I asked him. Please do not make confrontational responses to my posts unless you actually want to have a conversation on what was incorrect.

headrott

You do understand that no one has said that screws could not properly couple the drivers to the baffles except you. People are saying (myself included) that the rings couple the drivers to the baffles better than screws into the particle board do. The reason for this is posted in my response in post #71. As I stated in my last post, if you cannot or won't admit to understanding how that works (and at this point I don't see how you could not understand) then I would argue that your intentions are to be confrontational and try to get others to respond to you in a confrontational way (as Jesse said, passive/aggressive).

I find it interesting that the last posts you found anything useful in are the posts you made (#63 and #67). That right there shows how willing you are to try and understand what we are saying to you. This will be my last post on the subject because if you don't understand what we are explaining to you by now, you won't or aren't willing to admit you do (see post #78).

Greg

heiney9

Spikes, Rings, Dynamat, RD0's, x-over cap and resistor upgrades all make a huge, discernable difference individually. Start adding all these things together to your current SDA's and the improvement is HUGE, as in they are a much better sounding, more coherent speaker than they were stock. There is not a single shred of legimate evidence from legimate audiophiles that is credible enough to dispute this, even a little bit.

Better gear, better cables, room treatments, proper set-up all enhance the listening experience. Don't be afraid to use the best gear, in the best room, set-up the best way because you will be rewarded and the modded SDA's keep giving and giving and giving more and more performance as you move up the gear ladder.

Anyone reading this who hasn't persued these tried and true improvements is really missing out. And that my friends you can take to the bank! End of story and the last words on this subject. PERIOD!!

H9

nooshinjohn

I am beginning to suspect that intangible and Juju are one and the same. 99% are wrong when they say they hear improvmements with Larry's rings, but the 1% that did not or CAN not hear them are somehow right? What are the odds?:rolleyes:

thsmith

yawn

sda2mike

they should be patented

thsmith

+1. I heard an improvement doing my 1Cs, not the biggest improvement in sound vs some other tweaks I have done but I installed them for piece of mind and knowing my MWs were as secure as possible. So the improvement I heard was just icing on the cake.

evhudsons

This thread helped me understand what the rings do other than simply be a better seal. It makes very good sense, and thank you all for giving good descriptions of how they improve the sound.

For the record, I am thankful for the information found here on this site that while free, is invaluable. I don't think anyone "owes" anyone else any explanation. Pretty much all explanations are freely given, and should be freely accepted. It is fine to ask questions, or even to re ask questions to get clearer explanations, but no one owes anything.

It is a gratuitous site, and a darn good one. I appreciate the vast knowledge I am learning here. I can't wait to get my hands on some rings, and I have my tools lined up! So far all the upgrades have been wonderful.

One thing to consider though if you don't here improvements in any of the tweaks, is speaker placement or alignment, or objects affecting the sound in the room. Last night I moved a couple of pieces of furniture, realigned my speakers, and after re calibrating the setup, my whole living room seemed to double in sound size. I know everyone here is aware of that aspect, but I wanted to just say that may be something overlooked. I think some mods or tweaks are more obvious when the basics are taken care of.

thanks all,

Everett

sda2mike

great post evhudson.....the site is a great source of info...sometimes you have to weed through the responses of those that feel compelled to s**t on others positive views...but all in all this forum is priceless

F1nut

Everett,

Good points all around, including taking care of the basics.

Thanks,
Jesse

intangible

Headrott, I apologize for missing your post (71); it was buried with a number of other replies. That is the kind of response I desire.

The rings do not actually apply pressure to the driver; there is no direct contact between the ring and the basket. The screws/bolts apply pressure to the front of the driver basket and the baffle face applies pressure to the rear. Rings or no rings, the pressure is applied in those same places. You are essentially thinking about it in the same way as F1nut and TFFL, in that you believe that the increased holding power of the bolt in the socket over the screw in the baffle is required to prevent the driver assembly from coming unflush and vibrating out of phase with the baffle. I have addressed this thought (67):

"Of course not, but the comparison is not between a screw's holding power in particleboard vs a bolt's holding power in a threaded socket, it is between the screw's holding power and force applied to it by the motion of the driver."

audiocr381ve

headrott wrote: »

I was not trying to be hurtful at all. I was simply trying to deflate your ego, and say that your comments should not be taken seriously.

Greg

Feisty!

BTW, your signature represents exactly the kind of guy you are.

Conradicles

No disrespect, but you sir seem to be trolling.

DON73

sda2mike wrote: »

great post evhudson.....the site is a great source of info...sometimes you have to weed through the responses of those that feel compelled to s**t on others positive views...but all in all this forum is priceless

I've found that posts that go against the consensus here are the ones most apt to be s**t on but if a thread goes on long enough s**t usually drips down from enough posts to stink up the entire thread and thoughtful discussion cannot survive. I don't find it impossible for one not to hear a difference after installing the rings anymore than not hearing a difference after changing speaker cables.

I will be redoing the X overs on my 10s soon and would consider installing the rings but I would like to hear a reasonable explanation of exactly why they improve the sound. I am one of the unfortunate ones who does not hear an improvement or a difference in most of the tweaks recommended here but that does not mean that others don't.

If this discussion was carried out face to face in a small locked room with everyone stripped of clothing I think it may be a very polite but laughable sight! :evil:

heiney9

Either you're a tweaker or you're not. All of these modifications need to be tried, you can't get your own personal answer from someone else. Others can guide you and relay their experiences (and many here have a VAST amount of experience in this hobby). The cost of the rings is a no brainer to discover for yourself if they work as suggested. Now, if this was a several hundred dollar investment I could see the apprehension because a couple franklins in this economy is a lot of money to experiment with for some.

All you guys wanting answers beyond the ones given here, which are reasonable and fairly simple as well as common sense, take a physics class or use Google to get your learn on. The fact is it works and it's because the baskets are better coupled to the baffle. If you want to know the science behind it, put some effort into it and get your learn on.

H9

P.s. DON73 my post isn't directed right at you, more a general comment but it also answers your question as well.

nooshinjohn

audiocr381ve...

The name calling is over the top, and only diminishes any credibility you had in my book. Welcome to the IL.