Oh, man......gas to be at $3.75/gal by March.

mantis

starkiller wrote: »

One thing we can do as consumers is be smarter about how we drive. I am constantly amazed at the number of people here in the Seattle/Olympia area that seem to have no idea what "cruise control" is. :evil: I use it constantly and it adds at least 1-4 mpg to my tank of gas anyway. Imagine how much gas could be saved if even half of these folks used it!

It's amazing how fast most people drive. I drive I95 to work on some days , others I take RT13. 95 speed limit is 55 and average person is doing 65 to 70 mph. Then there is herds of people doing 80+. I usually stay in the right lane and maintain 60mph. I noticed an increase in mileage from when I use to do 65-70. That little bit of speed makes a difference on the tank. I get to work maybe 1 minute or so later then if I was speeding. I'd rather save the cents a day.

tonyb wrote: »

The whole gas price thing can't be laid at any single reason but a multitude of reasons. Greed, corruption, government policy, lack of refineries, world markets. Still, the laws of supply and demand still exist regardless of how that supply is delivered. Sure oil companies artificially raise prices, and sure, government policy can raise or lower prices, middle east turmoil goes without saying. Everything is intertwined. Something is wrong however when we take our oil, and ship it overseas. Between the U.S. and Canadian oil reserves we wouldn't need to depend on too many others.....if it was allowed. The world as a whole is all about the money and power. Who has the most gets to dictate to the others. Thats why China has been buying up oil contracts like crazy. They allready have the money. The North American continent is being stripped of it's own oil to be sold overseas and the money.....well, we have none. Point being is our relevance to the rest of the world grows weaker while others are gaining strength. Thats the fundemental change you were told about in 2008.

Aside from the oil pipeline getting the boot, we still needed the jobs desperately. Spin it any way you want, we need jobs period. I laid out before some basic things that make people happy.

Cheap gas- when prices go up, it takes a huge chunk out of the average joes pocket. Let alone the increase at the stores from trucking costs. The rich are unaffected by this so it really is a tax increase for the middle and poor folks. Keep gas cheap, and people are generally happy.

Jobs- Not much to say that hasn't already been said. If I have to point out the importance of jobs, then we all need to go back to school. Unfortunately we have some who think the more unemployment checks that go out, the better the economy gets.

Liberty- the power of having a choice, not being forced into anything, spyed on, and access to due process.

Taxes- lower taxes benefits everyone from the bottom to the top. When taxes are low, people are happy and usually spend, driving the economy.

Do those 4 things, and the country will flourish and the general population will be happy as can be. Today though, none of those 4 things are taking place.....and actually going in the opposite direction. Is it any wonder why so many are up in arms ? So many are just pissed off ?

Amen Brother.

I own a 2011 Nissan Murano and I'm hoping it's my last Gas powered Vehicle. I would love to go fully electric or Solar powered. I would really hope car companies keep moving away from fossil fuel and use alternative fuels as a standard propulsion. I'm so sick and tired of greed and this bad economy . For the USA we need a honest , high integrity Economy genius team to reinvent our economy. I believe what we have been doing for the last 6 years has failed and we all should learn from it.
Reality needs to be checked and teach our children to live with in their earned means.

fossy

talked my buddy in LA and it's over $ 4 there

$ 3.55 on average here

saw a report on the boob tube ... Venezula .17 a gallon ggggrrrrrrrr

tommyboy

mantis wrote: »

It's amazing how fast most people drive. I drive I95 to work on some days , others I take RT13. 95 speed limit is 55 and average person is doing 65 to 70 mph. Then there is herds of people doing 80+. I usually stay in the right lane and maintain 60mph. I noticed an increase in mileage from when I use to do 65-70. That little bit of speed makes a difference on the tank. I get to work maybe 1 minute or so later then if I was speeding. I'd rather save the cents a day.

Most highways outside of cities are 65-70 mph.. So you are going to stay under the speed limit to save a buck or two?

Drenis

mantis wrote: »

Reality needs to be checked and teach our children to live with in their earned means.

What exactly do you mean by that?

tonyb

mantis wrote: »

I would love to go fully electric or Solar powered. I would really hope car companies keep moving away from fossil fuel and use alternative fuels as a standard propulsion. I'm so sick and tired of greed and this bad economy .

Tired of greed ? What makes you think electric and solar power would be exempt from that ? It would only be a matter of time before the same crap takes over the alternate fuel industry. Besides, greed to an extent is good, it drives people to do better. Mind you greed to another extent is bad but seperateing the 2 doesn't seem to work so well. If your looking for men of integrity, honest men, I think those traits haven't been taught for decades, thus what you see is what you get.

nooshinjohn

mantis wrote: »

I'm so sick and tired of greed and this bad economy . For the USA we need a honest , high integrity Economy genius team to reinvent our economy.

Greed built this country, and all was well until they stopped teaching ethics, charity and integrity to our kids after the Fed seized the education system amd started teaching hedonism, secularism, and social justice. I had a kid at work tell me that high gas prices were a good thing because he now takes a bus to work, and if everybody did that, or lived close enough to ride a bicycle to work, we would be saving the planet! I asked him how to live close to work when the cheapest house nearby sells for 3 million... he started with the "greedy rich" diatribe, so I politely excused myself so I could go throw up.:eek:

seeclear

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Greed built this country,

Amen, brother! Greed = SUCCESS

What's wrong with success?

nooshinjohn

On the subject of greed, why is it that oil/energy companies, insurance companies, manufacturing, and such are looked at as greedy, while movie studios, professional sports, big media and such get a pass? Why is it greedy that an oil company CEO gets 20 million per year and an actor, NBA star, or singer that makes that much is somehow benevolent and deserving??? I would rather my son or daughter emulate a producer of goods and services rather than someone that produces nothing of tangible value, gets the fat payday, and then has the nerve to go out and trash the rest of us for not "paying our fair share". We idolize the wrong people, try to emulate the wrong values, while attacking as evil the way of life that made us what we used to be, the greatest nation the world has ever known.

cnh

I don't want to spark anything here. But "greed" really! Is that a "Christian" value perhaps? How does that fit in with religious beliefs? The contradictions are certainly there.

Also, do you have any idea of where most of the "capital" that fueled the Industrial Revolution came from? If not, take a look, it's not a pretty picture. There was something very important going on in trade before and after the I.R. in England that fed the capital that was used to "industrialize".

People seem to believe that the early history of our economic system was "ethical" or moral. Upright Industrialists who risked it all competing with each other to invest in machinery and factories, pay wage labor and produce products that returned profits which they reinvested and snowballed into greater and greater development, job creation, modernization and so on. Yes and no!

A lot of what I study or look at involves third world economies that are tied to what happened in the first world? Things are not so rosy there and yet their histories have been tied to what became the first world for a few centuries. History as they say is written by those who "win". That they might not win on a fair playing field, and take advantage of other economies, labor and resources in the process is "never" included in their "histories". That wouldn't look "good".

Never look at economic history in short bits! Always go back back back to the source, to the beginnings.

Then again as my fellow Pennsylvanian has already warned us: Don't go into a College or University Library and actually read what Historians have to say about all this because they're the "bad guys". And everything they write, "everything", "everything" is suspect and could never, should never be used to educate "anyone"!

I know America has always been anti-Intellectual....but please! I must be wasting my time trying to get my students to understand the various historical forces that birthed the China, Japan and Korea we see today. They should simply choose to believe whatever they want. And vote based on what is most "comfortable" for them to "believe". No "noise" in the system allowed?


cnh

unc2701

nooshinjohn wrote: »

.... while attacking as evil the way of life that made us what we used to be, the greatest nation the world has ever known.

What specific point in our history are you referring to? I ask because we've had ups and downs and you've gotta wonder what sort of policies were in place when each was happening.

nooshinjohn

unc2701 wrote: »

What specific point in our history are you referring to? I ask because we've had ups and downs and you've gotta wonder what sort of policies were in place when each was happening.

There have been three real attempts at trashing the Constitution. The first tear in the document was made by Andrew Jackson and his short-sighted policy of "Manifest Destiny", but the first all-out assault on the founding principles occured under the Woodrow Wilson, and later, FDR. The 1960's was again a dangerous time for our freedoms, but this group was smarter than the ones before... they recognized that the way to bring about their vision was from within, so they(SDS, Weather Underground etc...) dropped "radical pose for the radical ends", and instead took their place among the ranks of acedamia, business, environmental causes, law, and politics.

The times we live in today are the times that will try men's souls, and I believe the most dangerous time for our way of life is right around the corner.

steveinaz

Do the right thing for this country in November, get OUR country drilling and refining (lots of jobs AND cheaper gas). Also seal the deal with our Great White North neighbors, Canada on the pipeline. You can't control that which you do not own.

seeclear

cnh wrote: »

I don't want to spark anything here. But "greed" really!
cnh

Well, the thing is the left and the media use "greed" when they want to attach a negative connotation. Have you seen Adam Carolla's rant on how we view the successful man in town, today vs when we were young? I thought it was very interesting. You could probably google it.

But yes, I am greedy. In the respect that I want to be successful, and with that success comes the things I want to have in life. I want my kids to have a good education and the opportunity to travel and things I didn't have when I was young. I want to live in a beautiful state, in a nice house. I want to be able to retire someday and travel more myself. I want to be able to do nice things for my wife. And don't we all want more/better audio stuff? So greed is the reason I spent 8 years in college, got a BA, got a doctoral degree, and have 3 times mortgaged everything I had to start my business, to expand my business, and to house my business. I (with my partner, who did all the same educational things that I did) now employ 9 people. So, for the time being, I consider myself successful, and that success is a result of my "greed", or in other words, my efforts toward my own self-interest, in a capitalist system. Do I make more $ than my employees? Absolutely. But I am also the one who educated myself and have risked all my worldly goods 3 times to get where I am today. So do I feel guilty that I make more than my employees? No way!

And I don't know what relevance being "christian" has to do with it. I was raised christian, but I don't participate in organized religion at this point, but I do feel like I live my life by the golden rule, both personally and professionally, and I don't feel that it interferes with my "greed" in any way. As an academic, I am sure you are familiar with the concept of the Protestant Work Ethic, and I think we could do well to embody that more today.

Rant over.

tonyb

cnh wrote: »

I don't want to spark anything here. But "greed" really! Is that a "Christian" value perhaps? How does that fit in with religious beliefs? The contradictions are certainly there.

Also, do you have any idea of where most of the "capital" that fueled the Industrial Revolution came from? If not, take a look, it's not a pretty picture. There was something very important going on in trade before and after the I.R. in England that fed the capital that was used to "industrialize".

People seem to believe that the early history of our economic system was "ethical" or moral. Upright Industrialists who risked it all competing with each other to invest in machinery and factories, pay wage labor and produce products that returned profits which they reinvested and snowballed into greater and greater development, job creation, modernization and so on. Yes and no!

A lot of what I study or look at involves third world economies that are tied to what happened in the first world? Things are not so rosy there and yet their histories have been tied to what became the first world for a few centuries. History as they say is written by those who "win". That they might not win on a fair playing field, and take advantage of other economies, labor and resources in the process is "never" included in their "histories". That wouldn't look "good".

Never look at economic history in short bits! Always go back back back to the source, to the beginnings.

Then again as my fellow Pennsylvanian has already warned us: Don't go into a College or University Library and actually read what Historians have to say about all this because they're the "bad guys". And everything they write, "everything", "everything" is suspect and could never, should never be used to educate "anyone"!

I know America has always been anti-Intellectual....but please! I must be wasting my time trying to get my students to understand the various historical forces that birthed the China, Japan and Korea we see today. They should simply choose to believe whatever they want. And vote based on what is most "comfortable" for them to "believe". No "noise" in the system allowed?


cnh

I don't know where on earth this is comming from, but you couldn't be more wrong. Greed is not a Christian value, it's a human one. Nobody ever said the history of capitalism was moral and just, it was downright brutal. But, it worked. This "fair playing field" you talk of never existed, not then, not now, and not in the future. How do you teach at all if you can't take into account historians ? Whats your basis for factual content ? America anti-intellectual ? Please....have no idea what your talking about. China doesn't allow "noise" in their system, you should know this by now. Economies rise and fall all over history, no news there, and war was probably the number one reason. Your looking at history from a "what if things were fair and on a level playing field "." What if" is speculation, not historical fact. Sure winners get to write history, but it's not like you don't have another perspective from the loosers either. Not like they took away all their writeing materials after they were conquered. Losers still had writings, still had thoughts they put down on paper. Look at all the Dynasties in China, loosers never wrote anything ?

Well, kinda off track here from gas prices, so I'll attempt to get us back on track.

Gas prices suck........hows that ?:cheesygrin:

nooshinjohn

tonyb wrote: »

INot like they took away all their writeing materials after they were conquered. Losers still had writings, still had thoughts they put down on paper. Look at all the Dynasties in China, loosers never wrote anything ?

Well, kinda off track here from gas prices, so I'll attempt to get us back on track.

Gas prices suck........hows that ?:cheesygrin:

Nice retort Tony...

I would point out also that even forgotten christians managed to survive throughout the ages, and thanks to the Nag Hammadi (dead sea scrolls) we know their history as well. History is written by winners, not whiners, and since when was this a nation of whiners? time to do that "pulling yourself up by the bootstrap" that americans are so well known for and kick some ****. The world needs a leader and it's time we start acting like one.

And yes Tony, gas prices do suck!:cheesygrin:

cnh

tonyb wrote: »

I don't know where on earth this is comming from, but you couldn't be more wrong. Greed is not a Christian value, it's a human one. Nobody ever said the history of capitalism was moral and just, it was downright brutal. But, it worked. This "fair playing field" you talk of never existed, not then, not now, and not in the future. How do you teach at all if you can't take into account historians ? Whats your basis for factual content ? America anti-intellectual ? Please....have no idea what your talking about. China doesn't allow "noise" in their system, you should know this by now. Economies rise and fall all over history, no news there, and war was probably the number one reason. Your looking at history from a "what if things were fair and on a level playing field "." What if" is speculation, not historical fact. Sure winners get to write history, but it's not like you don't have another perspective from the loosers either. Not like they took away all their writeing materials after they were conquered. Losers still had writings, still had thoughts they put down on paper. Look at all the Dynasties in China, loosers never wrote anything ?

Well, kinda off track here from gas prices, so I'll attempt to get us back on track.

Gas prices suck........hows that ?:cheesygrin:

Don't disagree. In fact everything you say is what I was saying above. Greed is not a Christian value. So let's not valorize it. What I am trying to understand is why we can often excuse it (for those that do believe, excuse greed and continue to espouse a religious responsibility for others).

As for the history commentary my response is to those on the Right who think all college professors are tainted "leftists" who are out to indoctrinate our young. It's been in the news, no? I am not saying you or others here necessarily think that.

As for intellectuals. Do you think they are highly regarded and respected here. More so than in other parts of the world?

Don't be too quick to jump on the info in the post. Slow down and take it in. It is not that far afield from what you have written above.

We both agreed that "greed" is a problem for humans. We both agree that it is "not" a Christian value. We both agree that the history of Capitalism is not "pretty". The history of Communism is also pretty heinous in parts. We both agree that winners write history--I never exempted China from that. Every New Dynasty rewrote the history that preceded it so as to legitimize its right to rule and its ascendancy to power. That includes the current regime whose rewriting of history is leaps and bounds more intrusive than what we've done in the U.S. although we're also pretty guilty of whitewashing our past.

I just don't really see many places where we disagree--don't get caught in viewing the above through another lens. Of course you need history to understand what came before the present and understand our own time. That's what I was saying above. So we agree once more.

Just where would you say we "actually" disagree? Maybe in the comment about America being Anti-intellectual--but wasn't Mr. Rick S.'s recent statement about a college education a direct attack on American Intellectuals. Aren't we usually labelled effete New York Times reading liberals, apologists for everything "Left". Aren't we vilified by the Right fairly consistently? Finally, are "we" really even a homogeneous political block? Of course not.

So no problem, no real disagreements that I can see. As far as I'm concerned, we're good!

Carry on. Need to chill and speak to each other. Not always what one Historian refers to as Dialogues of the Deaf (in which two different sides can not "hear" each other speak).

cnh

nooshinjohn

cnh... I saw that interview of Rick S. in it's entirety, and his statements were in no way an attack on all of acedamia. You cannot deny that when a public college holds classes on how to participate an Occupy Wall Street rally, that there is not some sort of indoctrination taking place. How about when they encourage anti-semites to disrupt Israeli speakers that have been invited to speak on campus? Indoctrination at many institutions is a fact of life, and even your grades may depend on it...

cnh

nooshinjohn wrote: »

cnh... I saw that interview of Rick S. in it's entirety, and his statements were in no way an attack on all of acedamia. You cannot deny that when a public college holds classes on how to participate an Occupy Wall Street rally, that there is not some sort of indoctrination taking place. How about when they encourage anti-semites to disrupt Israeli speakers that have been invited to speak on campus? Indoctrination at many institutions is a fact of life, and even your grades may depend on it...

I am a firm believer in academic freedom. And I often "cringe" when some of my colleagues mindlessly side with Pro-Palestinian positions as a knee-jerk response of the PC variety. There is NO place for such biases in the academy. When I do my course on China, which I am conducting this semester, I have to take "extra" care to present every side of all issues and not merely rubber stamp modern China but also not dismiss everything that it did accomplish albeit often at great cost. You have NO idea how very hard that is to do when you have a student body that is divided.

We encourage protests of all kinds. God forbid that I should ever grade a student on the basis of his politics!

I understand where you are coming from, though. Views of the Academy from the outside are often also shallow. But remember that "all" the contradictions that you find outside of the academy are brought to it by its student body, and to a lesser extent, by its faculty and Administrators.

Enough for now. I have to discuss the "excesses' of Mao's Cultural Revolution tomorrow. Something that makes OWS look like preschool playtime. lol

cnh

tonyb

cnh wrote: »

Then again as my fellow Pennsylvanian has already warned us: Don't go into a College or University Library and actually read what Historians have to say about all this because they're the "bad guys". And everything they write, "everything", "everything" is suspect and could never, should never be used to educate "anyone"!
cnh

So what do you use to educate then ? If everything is suspect, then history becomes irrelevant. Is that the goal ? History is vital, especially as a learning tool going forward. Not that we actually take note of history because we seem to always let it repeat itself.

Formal education, higher learning, intellectuals, call it what you will, nobody is saying they don't have value and should be something everyone should strive for but it's not the be all end all. It's doesn't mean that somehow an intellectual is more important or on a different plane than others. Intellect in and of itself is not only acquired from books. As a teacher, do you not see the epic fail in blanket statements such as "Historians are the bad guys" ? All of them ? You subscribe to this ? Like saying all Americans are arses, all the French are di%K's, all the English are snobs. I know this is the internet and all, but you come across as believing this. I could be wrong however, god knows it wouldn't be the first time.

gdb

Don't **** at the gas pump......take comfort in the knowledge that you're supporting some people's greed.....

nooshinjohn

gdb wrote: »

Don't **** at the gas pump......take comfort in the knowledge that you're supporting some people's greed.....

You should sue the education system because it's obvious your money was wasted...:rolleyes:

cnh

tonyb wrote: »

So what do you use to educate then ? If everything is suspect, then history becomes irrelevant. Is that the goal ? History is vital, especially as a learning tool going forward. Not that we actually take note of history because we seem to always let it repeat itself.

Formal education, higher learning, intellectuals, call it what you will, nobody is saying they don't have value and should be something everyone should strive for but it's not the be all end all. It's doesn't mean that somehow an intellectual is more important or on a different plane than others. Intellect in and of itself is not only acquired from books. As a teacher, do you not see the epic fail in blanket statements such as "Historians are the bad guys" ? All of them ? You subscribe to this ? Like saying all Americans are arses, all the French are di%K's, all the English are snobs. I know this is the internet and all, but you come across as believing this. I could be wrong however, god knows it wouldn't be the first time.

Don't understand what you are saying tony? It is not "I" who am labeling everyone as the same. Others who are not "us" are labeling us as a monolithic entity, right? Remember, I am an academic. I'm not saying that we are the end all and be all of knowledge (although as an Anthropologist my knowledge also incorporates real world experiences in Participant-Observation with those who I study so it is not "merely" book knowledge).

Seems to be some confusion here. I am "responding" to what has been said of "us" even though that "us" is not really a unity but a political abstraction.

And yes, the point was, indeed, that if you don't use "history" you can't really understand these things.

Maybe it is the internet. Just imagine carrying on a discussion or debate over a few hours or days without really being in the same place at the same time.

It's all good!

cnh

gdb

"You should sue the education system because it's obvious your money was wasted..."


You should......cease being a gas spouting, flag clutching, misinformed blowhard, ninnie poophead and run for some office like the rest of you seem to do. Pissant

nooshinjohn

Thanks for proving my point:cheesygrin:...

gdb

What precisely is your point dujour, campaign of the week, cause celebre ?? How bout a huge cup of get over yourself and quit being so preachy with your zealot drivel !

cnh

Hey guys. Let's take a deep breath and count to ten. No need to escalate things. I do believe that we can talk to each other even if, occasionally, we might seem to overreach because all we have are a few sentences or a paragraph or so to try and say it "all" when, in fact, that's quite impossible.

I think we all agree about the price of gas, though. And I know I've been accused of being full of "gas" by some, now and then. lol

cnh

tonyb

cnh wrote: »

Seems to be some confusion here. I am "responding" to what has been said of "us" even though that "us" is not really a unity but a political abstraction.
cnh

Gotcha....my misunderstanding then an my appologies of coarse.

gdb

Yor are right, I should know better by now than to engage in debate with any Glen Beck "Dittoheads".

tonyb

gdb wrote: »

Don't **** at the gas pump......take comfort in the knowledge that you're supporting some people's greed.....

By the same token, don't **** about not getting a raise....to support your own greed.

gdb

By the same token, don't **** about not getting a raise....to support your own greed.



Twas but a jest, lost on many it would seem.