Oh, man......gas to be at $3.75/gal by March.

obieone

ryanjoachim wrote: »

The US government has little effect on the price of gasoline.
It boggles my mind when people always blame the government here for what only those countries to the East have control over.

Well...... killing that pipeline deal prolly DIDN'T help any:rolleyes:

nooshinjohn

ryanjoachim wrote: »

The US government has little effect on the price of gasoline.

It boggles my mind when people always blame the government here for what only those countries to the East have control over.

They control access to what we have. They control the permit processes for new capacity(refining),nuclear power, coal production, solar, wind, geothermal, natural gas, oil drilling and exploration, and Hydroelectric. They control through law and regulation every single drop of gas that goes in your tank and every miliwatt that gets to your wall socket. The Saudi's arent wrecking our economy, but they are reaping the reward of our own stupidity, and laughing all the way to the bank.

What they don't control is handled in the courts by environmentalist's and their teams of lawyer, activists and PAC's... The agenda is to "fundamentally transform".

We need to fix our production problems here at home, and the Government has all the power to do just that. Unfortunately, the Goddes of Global Warming and Mother Earth come before your livelihood, and your ability to provide for your family... wait, the Government can do that too....

Drenis

nooshinjohn wrote: »

You are sadly mis-informed... there is more oil in the ground in North America than anywhere else on earth, but the restrictions placed on oil companies prevent them from getting to it. Combine this with the fact that refineries are running at full capacity to refine what we do have and you end up with a system that is pushed to the limit. Loose a refinery in Louisiana, and gas prices in Cleveland go up a dime.

We need the will to drill, and added refining capacity of 10.00 a gallon is not that far off. I would ratehr we provide jobs in this country with our hard earned dollars rather than sending the cash over to countries that use our money to educate and train the next generation of Mohammed Atta's.

Hmm... I see your point.

Oil is certainly booming up north. I never expected North America to hold the most oil. I thought Iran and Saudi Arabia had the most. regardless, I too wish prices were less. I wish more could be done about it.

heiney9

I have read recently the closing of refineries in the US is part of the latest cause of higher prices. US demand is down for gasoline vs the rest of the world and many refineries have closed because they have been losing money because of the decrease in demand.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/angry-about-high-gas-prices--blame-shuttered-oil-refineries.html

H9

BlueFox

Along the same line, I recently read that due to decreased demand in the U.S. we are becoming an oil exporter. Also, the oil line that has been postponed is to get Canadian oil to a port for shipping to China and elsewhere. It isn't for U.S. oil.

nooshinjohn

heiney9 wrote: »

I have read recently the closing of refineries in the US is part of the latest cause of higher prices. US demand is down for gasoline vs the rest of the world and many refineries have closed because they have been losing money because of the decrease in demand.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/angry-about-high-gas-prices--blame-shuttered-oil-refineries.html

H9

Yep... it costs BILLIONS to operate a a 50 year old refinery. We need new ones that are would be far more efficient than the ones in use today. Just like Nuke power, a new one has not been permitted to be built in more than 30 years!

ryanjoachim

heiney9 wrote: »

I have read recently the closing of refineries in the US is part of the latest cause of higher prices. US demand is down for gasoline vs the rest of the world and many refineries have closed because they have been losing money because of the decrease in demand.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/angry-about-high-gas-prices--blame-shuttered-oil-refineries.html

H9

I think what they meant to say was "we aren't making as much money as we used to", not that they're actually losing money.

That's just IMO though.

heiney9

ryanjoachim wrote: »

I think what they meant to say was "we aren't making as much money as we used to", not that they're actually losing money.

That's just IMO though.

No, if you do the research they are losing money. Did you read the article?

"This week, Hovensa finished shutting down its refinery in St. Croix. The plant processed 350,000 barrels of crude a day, and yet lost about $1.3 billion over the past three years, or roughly $1 million a day. The St. Croix plant got hit with a double whammy of pricing pressure. Not only did it face higher prices for Brent crude, but it also lacked access to cheap natural gas, a crucial raw material for refineries"

To me that means they lost money, not made less. Also other articles I've read eluded to the same thing.

H9

heiney9

I guess my question is if prices keep going up and the refineries are closing because they aren't making money, then who is making all the money while prices are increasing? Certainly the closing of refineries is just a single component of a far more complex mix of issues.

H9

Polkersince85

All it would take is an edict from Washington that as of April 1, all government gasoline powered vehicles shall use Natural gas. The trickle down to state, county and private sector would drop the price of gasoline instantly.

nooshinjohn

Polkersince85 wrote: »

All it would take is an edict from Washington that as of April 1, all government gasoline powered vehicles shall use Natural gas. The trickle down to state, county and private sector would drop the price of gasoline instantly.

Love the choice of date there.:cheesygrin:

Tankman

ryanjoachim wrote: »

The US government has little effect on the price of gasoline.

It boggles my mind when people always blame the government here for what only those countries to the East have control over.

Very good post!.Also a very true post.I use too work in the Oilfield,Gulf of Mexico.Inst Tech i blew my knew out now i am retired.But one time i was on a Chevron/Texaco offshore Production Platform and over heard two Operators talking about how the Oilfield big boys where going to get the price of fuel up at the pump and that was back in 2001.They where also saying how they where losing money at the pump at the hoses.They came up with that block valve you see at the top of the hose at the top of the pump.Saying how customers could after the pump stop,still hold the trigger down and just lift the hose above your head and get the gas out of the hose that wasn't paid for.And on top of all of what i heard them talking about that day as i was walking out of the control room they where talking about how they would get a gallon at the pump up too where a gallon of milk was saying it would take them about ten years too get the price where they wanted it.Well here we are about 10 to 11 years later and where the price is at?No its not our Government doing this its Corparate America doing the price gouging!:frown:

mrbigbluelight

nooshinjohn wrote: »

You are sadly mis-informed... there is more oil in the ground in North America than anywhere else on earth

I'd put my money on Siberia.

Gas around here is now about $3.53 a gallon.

It's only going to go up from here, so I checked Craiglist and found me a good ol' Union Pacific "Big Boy", good condition, slightly used. As is.

Have to park it on the steet; the engine itself is 100' long and weighs 1.2 million lbs, but it's rated at 6300 horsepower with a maximum tractive effort of 135,000 pounds. And with good coal (anthracite) going for about $50 a ton, well ... good-bye to the pump !
BTW, runs at 300 psig so the coal burns cleanly, so I figure I'm being environmentaly friendly. Probably paint the cab green to show that.

Now, if I can just get it off the trailer.

mhardy6647

1 point 2 million lbs. What a mindf**k.

nooshinjohn

Tankman wrote: »

Very good post!.Also a very true post....

Not even close.

Business was corrupted as soon as congress decided there was money to be had by controlling it. Government/business has become an unholy alliance, leading to at first the mistrust of the media, but even they caved to the pressure of the money-trough. The reason nobody trusts either is that they know they only need to care about themselves. Business gets no free pass from me, but it is with government intervention in the operating fundamentals of the free market system, picking winners and losers, who gets a shot and who doesn't, that have screwed things up the most. The list of failures here is endless... Fannie/Freddy/GM and Chrysler, Fisker, Solyndra.... when does it stop?

Men and women of principle need to stand together and reset the system. Less regulation, less government, more PERSONAL accountability, and responsibility, with laws that prosecute those trying to game the system, rather than rewarding them with golden parachutes and stock options. No more free rides or free passes. Work together as free and empowered people, or die alone. It's getting to a place rather quickly that we may no longer have that choice.

cnh

Whether one blames the Gov't, the Corporations or even some unholy alliance of the two. It doesn't change the fact that we'll probably be paying over 5 dollars a gallon by summer!

The question is, and it's very very simple: what are "we" going to do about it? Allow ourselves to continue to be gouged on and on and on while 'someone' "is" profiting. Make no mistake not 'everyone' is paying. Some are "making". Cut it and spin it anyway you want. It doesn't mean much to me. Politics doesn't cut this debate it's too variegated and complex to be laid out in some simple manner. Too many "players" too many "interests" too many nations, etc.

I'm reminded of Mr. Finch's "out of the window" performance in the film Network! What do you all think? Are we "mad as Hell" yet? And can we "at least" "agree" about "that"? Or are we going to continue to "take it"?


cnh

Tankman

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Not even close.

Business was corrupted as soon as congress decided there was money to be had by controlling it. Government/business has become an unholy alliance, leading to at first the mistrust of the media, but even they caved to the pressure of the money-trough. The reason nobody trusts either is that they know they only need to care about themselves. Business gets no free pass from me, but it is with government intervention in the operating fundamentals of the free market system, picking winners and losers, who gets a shot and who doesn't, that have screwed things up the most. The list of failures here is endless... Fannie/Freddy/GM and Chrysler, Fisker, Solyndra.... when does it stop?

Men and women of principle need to stand together and reset the system. Less regulation, less government, more PERSONAL accountability, and responsibility, with laws that prosecute those trying to game the system, rather than rewarding them with golden parachutes and stock options. No more free rides or free passes. Work together as free and empowered people, or die alone. It's getting to a place rather quickly that we may no longer have that choice.

Some very good points here.But i must say OPEC my friend is not our friend.But yep i see your point.38 precent is paid too the States on the Gulf Coast out of the money Feds get from the Oilfiled.Plus on top of that at the pump we are tax again on fuel something like 34 to 39 cents pre gallon.Where does it stop!Yeah i know it is used too go to the Hwy repairs and so on the tax at the pump that is.

nooshinjohn

Agreed CNH... and from this I take that we need to once again take the lead for the rest of the world and fix our own problems and develop a comprehensive plan to become self-sufficient and free from the rest of the corruption that rules the global markets. Drill baby drill, fire up those coal and natural gas plants. Build 5 new nuke plants in every state. Ending dependence on the rest of the globe is the best way to restore our way of life.

gdb

Lot's of people are getting richer from these oil/gas prices, namely, the ones that are vehemently defended by a lot of members here for other actions/tax exemptions/dodging ! So, what's the big deal? Finding fault with the movers and shakers of the Right all of a sudden ?

gdb

mhardy6647 wrote: »

1 point 2 million lbs. What a mindf**k.

That's only 600,000 tons !:cheesygrin:

nooshinjohn

gdb wrote: »

That's only 600,000 tons !:cheesygrin:

I can tell you are the 99%:cheesygrin:


It is only 600 tonnes. The Titanic was 100 times bigger in weight.

fossy

what people don't realize is we have the power to shut down ANY retail establishment ..... any one .....but to get the people together is another story in itself........just imagine if chevron was not bought from in 2 weeks where they would be ...... it's all cool but we the ppl do have the power ......without our our money ..... they have no money .... when gas gets 6 plus ... ppl are gonna start doin crazy **** ...... just sayin

yikes did I just post this ??? NO SOUP FOR ME !!!

ken brydson

fossy wrote: »

what people don't realize is we have the power to shut down ANY retail establishment ..... any one .....but to get the people together is another story in itself........just imagine if chevron was not bought from in 2 weeks where they would be ...... it's all cool but we the ppl do have the power ......without our our money ..... they have no money .... when gas gets 6 plus ... ppl are gonna start doin crazy **** ...... just sayin

yikes did I just post this ??? NO SOUP FOR ME !!!

Yes you did and 1 more post to 1000!

jim 249

I just passed through LeeVining on 395 in California and regular was $4.99 a gallon with the other grades north of $5 a gallon. From what I have read the east coast refiners are losing money so a few of them shut down for maintenance. The crude price they work to is North Sea Brent which is were they get there crude from. North Sea Brent is about $15 a barrel more than WTI.

mhardy6647

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I can tell you are the 99%:cheesygrin:


It is only 600 tonnes. The Titanic was 100 times bigger in weight.

yeah... and where is she today, huh? ;-)

oh, and isn't a tonne a metric ton (i.e., 1000 kg, or 2200 lb)? EDIT: or just a "long ton"... jeepers, that stuff is so complicated...

starkiller

One thing we can do as consumers is be smarter about how we drive. I am constantly amazed at the number of people here in the Seattle/Olympia area that seem to have no idea what "cruise control" is. :evil: I use it constantly and it adds at least 1-4 mpg to my tank of gas anyway. Imagine how much gas could be saved if even half of these folks used it!

BlueFox

starkiller wrote: »

One thing we can do as consumers is be smarter about how we drive. I am constantly amazed at the number of people here in the Seattle/Olympia area that seem to have no idea what "cruise control" is. :evil: I use it constantly and it adds at least 1-4 mpg to my tank of gas anyway. Imagine how much gas could be saved if even half of these folks used it!

Yes. I get onto the 4 lane freeway, and in the 2nd lane from the right, I put on the cruise at 65, and get passed on the left and right side.

gdb

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I can tell you are the 99%:cheesygrin:


It is only 600 tonnes. The Titanic was 100 times bigger in weight.

Eh, I tend to exaggerate.

tonyb

The whole gas price thing can't be laid at any single reason but a multitude of reasons. Greed, corruption, government policy, lack of refineries, world markets. Still, the laws of supply and demand still exist regardless of how that supply is delivered. Sure oil companies artificially raise prices, and sure, government policy can raise or lower prices, middle east turmoil goes without saying. Everything is intertwined. Something is wrong however when we take our oil, and ship it overseas. Between the U.S. and Canadian oil reserves we wouldn't need to depend on too many others.....if it was allowed. The world as a whole is all about the money and power. Who has the most gets to dictate to the others. Thats why China has been buying up oil contracts like crazy. They allready have the money. The North American continent is being stripped of it's own oil to be sold overseas and the money.....well, we have none. Point being is our relevance to the rest of the world grows weaker while others are gaining strength. Thats the fundemental change you were told about in 2008.

Aside from the oil pipeline getting the boot, we still needed the jobs desperately. Spin it any way you want, we need jobs period. I laid out before some basic things that make people happy.

Cheap gas- when prices go up, it takes a huge chunk out of the average joes pocket. Let alone the increase at the stores from trucking costs. The rich are unaffected by this so it really is a tax increase for the middle and poor folks. Keep gas cheap, and people are generally happy.

Jobs- Not much to say that hasn't already been said. If I have to point out the importance of jobs, then we all need to go back to school. Unfortunately we have some who think the more unemployment checks that go out, the better the economy gets.

Liberty- the power of having a choice, not being forced into anything, spyed on, and access to due process.

Taxes- lower taxes benefits everyone from the bottom to the top. When taxes are low, people are happy and usually spend, driving the economy.

Do those 4 things, and the country will flourish and the general population will be happy as can be. Today though, none of those 4 things are taking place.....and actually going in the opposite direction. Is it any wonder why so many are up in arms ? So many are just pissed off ?

jim 249

The North American continent is being stripped of it's own oil to be sold overseas

We need something to export to off set all the crap we buy from China!