You don't need close to 200wpc

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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,008
    edited February 2011
    zumbo wrote: »
    Is there any point in me staying around
    Plainly put? No.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • zumbo
    zumbo Posts: 37
    edited February 2011
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Plainly put? No.

    Good enough.:cool:
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited February 2011
    Ok. A little humor never hurts. Now all jokes aside:
    zumbo wrote: »
    But, I have made my point about the thread title. My point is clear, and correct.

    Sorry. What's your point? I have not seen you making one yet. Or maybe I missed it.
    _________________________________________________
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited February 2011
    zumbo wrote: »
    Good lord man, are y'all 12 years old?:eek:
    No, but you appear to have the experience of one.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited February 2011
    zumbo wrote: »
    Is there any point in me staying around?

    Yes. I'm interested in discussing with you my previous question: What about my 8wpc SET 300B amp? What about a 200wpc tube amp makes it better? I'm all ears as I love high power amps, but I also haven't heard a better amp with my speakers so far than this 300B.
    Jake
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  • zumbo
    zumbo Posts: 37
    edited February 2011
    zingo wrote: »
    Yes. I'm interested in discussing with you my previous question: What about my 8wpc SET 300B amp? What about a 200wpc tube amp makes it better? I'm all ears as I love high power amps, but I also haven't heard a better amp with my speakers so far than this 300B.

    I have decided to leave CP, but I feel you deserve a reply. Sorry the others gave me a bad taste for this place. If I had received rational replies such as yours, I would stay around.

    I dig those little amps. Very cool.

    In your situation, I would say this. Have that amp built in a 200W version based on the design principles of your amp. You like the sound of your amp, as I figure I would too. So, a massive version would have to be superior to your version. Just seems simple, except for the cost of such a piece.

    Which leads me right back to my point. The thread is not about such an amp.(200w tube, or Class A)

    The thread is about a 200w class ab amp compared to a unit such as, or similar to yours. And on that note, the thread is pointless.

    Thanks for the kind reply, but I am out.:smile:
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited February 2011
    Zumbo....calm down, take a breath and don't get in a tizzy. If we all 'left' as soon as someone here gave us some flack there would be NO ONE on this site?

    You should visit some other audio forums if you think it's 'bad' here. We're actually a piece of cake...or should I say 'pie' compared to many others.

    Hang around! And refer to H9s ORIGINAL post. He never says anything about comparing various classes of amplification within their specific classes. He is merely talking about the 'complexity' and 'intricacies' of amp designs. At no point in this entire thread did anyone 'redefine' Brock's query as you just did. So give and take.

    I don't have any problem with you, as you know, but please read the thread in its entirety before jumping into the fray. That's why you're getting what you feel is backlash.

    Stay cool! Listen! Share! And don't take things 'personally'?

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited February 2011
    This used to be a great place to learn,,,sometimes we all need to step back and look in the mirrior,, myself included.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • zumbo
    zumbo Posts: 37
    edited February 2011
    cnh wrote: »
    Zumbo....calm down, take a breath and don't get in a tizzy. If we all 'left' as soon as someone here gave us some flack there would be NO ONE on this site?

    You should visit some other audio forums if you think it's 'bad' here. We're actually a piece of cake...or should I say 'pie' compared to many others.

    Hang around! And refer to H9s ORIGINAL post. He never says anything about comparing various classes of amplification within their specific classes. He is merely talking about the 'complexity' and 'intricacies' of amp designs. At no point in this entire thread did anyone 'redefine' Brock's query as you just did. So give and take.

    I don't have any problem with you, as you know, but please read the thread in its entirety before jumping into the fray. That's why you're getting what you feel is backlash.

    Stay cool! Listen! Share! And don't take things 'personally'?

    cnh

    Very calm.

    If everyone got the childish replies I did, you're right, there will be no one here.

    Very aware of how forums work. As I mentioned, I was invited here.

    I cut through the BS, and replied to the initial thread as it was posted. Thread had a lot of activity, so I figured it was the perfect place for me to get an idea of the forum. I did.:wink:

    There is no doubt the initial thread is comparing 200w AB to Tubes and/or Class A.

    I have heard Mcintosh 275 with B&W 805 compared to Mcintosh 1000w monoblocks with B&W 802 in the same room. It was stunning how good the little 805 set-up sounded.

    I would assume most would be aware of the difference in the sound of amps by classes, which this thread title clearly dismisses. And to boot, all of my replies tried to keep the SS(AB intended) as the point.

    This should explain my point good enough, as I am just a little tired of having to say the same thing over-and-over.

    Thanks again for another civil reply, but you guys just let me be on my way.:smile:

    No hard feelings on my end what-so-ever.:wink:
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  • Jetmaker737
    Jetmaker737 Posts: 1,045
    edited February 2011
    george daniel wrote: »
    This used to be a great place to learn,,,

    It still is. This dude got in a one-on-one tussle with one forum member and now declares that CP sucks... his loss.
    SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|Nakamichi RX-202 Cassette
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited February 2011
    too much drama
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited February 2011
    cnh wrote: »
    Zumbo....calm down, take a breath and don't get in a tizzy. If we all 'left' as soon as someone here gave us some flack there would be NO ONE on this site?

    You should visit some other audio forums if you think it's 'bad' here. We're actually a piece of cake...or should I say 'pie' compared to many others.

    Hang around! And refer to H9s ORIGINAL post. He never says anything about comparing various classes of amplification within their specific classes. He is merely talking about the 'complexity' and 'intricacies' of amp designs. At no point in this entire thread did anyone 'redefine' Brock's query as you just did. So give and take.

    I don't have any problem with you, as you know, but please read the thread in its entirety before jumping into the fray. That's why you're getting what you feel is backlash.

    Stay cool! Listen! Share! And don't take things 'personally'?

    cnh

    Quite honestly, Zumbo has made a very valid point. H9 titled a thread with a blanket statement, then didn't really clarify anything in his post. Most of us assumed he was talking about tubes, when he was actually talking about his own personal preference about A class amps, in the meantime seeming to dismiss your less expensive but more powerful class A/B amps. In the meantime going on & on about "quality" like everything else is just cheap trash.

    Each class of amp is very different from the others, with even more different pricetags. Just as all of us are at different stages in this hobby with different goals in mind.

    But I believe that the majority who come on here (especially newbies) are either beginners, or maybe intermediates who are here because they realize that Polk speakers are give you a lot of bang for your buck, and if they want to improve their systems they will also want good bang for their buck with amplification that will truly make a difference and they will clearly hear the improvement.

    I've seen plenty buy less powerful A/B amps & couldn't hear a difference, but I have yet to see someone say that they couldn't hear a difference with a powerful A/B amp. They were happy & they didn't break the bank with their purchase. This is what I try to accomplish when I make my recommendations.

    So those of you who are into tubes & class A amps need to be more forthcoming and honest about the class of amp, and price when you recommend your types of amps, and not just say it's about quality & not quantity. I believe it's call "Full Disclosure"!:biggrin:
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • Jetmaker737
    Jetmaker737 Posts: 1,045
    edited February 2011
    george daniel wrote: »
    too much drama

    True.
    SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|Nakamichi RX-202 Cassette
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited February 2011
    cfrizz wrote: »
    Quite honestly, Zumbo has made a very valid point. H9 titled a thread with a blanket statement, then didn't really clarify anything in his post. Most of us assumed he was talking about tubes, when he was actually talking about his own personal preference about A class amps, in the meantime seeming to dismiss your less expensive but more powerful class A/B amps. In the meantime going on & on about "quality" like everything else is just cheap trash.

    Each class of amp is very different from the others, with even more different pricetags. Just as all of us are at different stages in this hobby with different goals in mind.

    But I believe that the majority who come on here (especially newbies) are either beginners, or maybe intermediates who are here because they realize that Polk speakers are give you a lot of bang for your buck, and if they want to improve their systems they will also want good bang for their buck with amplification that will truly make a difference and they will clearly hear the improvement.

    I've seen plenty buy less powerful A/B amps & couldn't hear a difference, but I have yet to see someone say that they couldn't hear a difference with a powerful A/B amp. They were happy & they didn't break the bank with their purchase. This is what I try to accomplish when I make my recommendations.

    So those of you who are into tubes & class A amps need to be more forthcoming and honest about the class of amp, and price when you recommend your types of amps, and not just say it's about quality & not quantity. I believe it's call "Full Disclosure"!:biggrin:

    I have followed the entire thread from the beginning and Brock made his points perfectly clear. The was no lack of clarity in what he was trying to convey IMO. There have been several tangents (imagine that :rolleyes:) by different people who want to take it elsewhere...but the original point that one does not need 200wpc...tube or SS to get excellent sound with a wide variety of speakers and applications. That is what the title said...that has been explained ad nauseum by several...very directly and clearly.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited February 2011
    cfrizz wrote: »
    Quite honestly, Zumbo has made a very valid point. H9 titled a thread with a blanket statement, then didn't really clarify anything in his post. Most of us assumed he was talking about tubes, when he was actually talking about his own personal preference about A class amps, in the meantime seeming to dismiss your less expensive but more powerful class A/B amps. In the meantime going on & on about "quality" like everything else is just cheap trash.

    Each class of amp is very different from the others, with even more different pricetags. Just as all of us are at different stages in this hobby with different goals in mind.

    But I believe that the majority who come on here (especially newbies) are either beginners, or maybe intermediates who are here because they realize that Polk speakers are give you a lot of bang for your buck, and if they want to improve their systems they will also want good bang for their buck with amplification that will truly make a difference and they will clearly hear the improvement.

    I've seen plenty buy less powerful A/B amps & couldn't hear a difference, but I have yet to see someone say that they couldn't hear a difference with a powerful A/B amp. They were happy & they didn't break the bank with their purchase. This is what I try to accomplish when I make my recommendations.

    So those of you who are into tubes & class A amps need to be more forthcoming and honest about the class of amp, and price when you recommend your types of amps, and not just say it's about quality & not quantity. I believe it's call "Full Disclosure"!:biggrin:

    Good point
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited February 2011
    george daniel wrote: »
    too much drama
    He He ,and I missed too many pages to bother to back read.
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited February 2011
    cfrizz wrote: »
    Quite honestly, Zumbo has made a very valid point. H9 titled a thread with a blanket statement, then didn't really clarify anything in his post. Most of us assumed he was talking about tubes, when he was actually talking about his own personal preference about A class amps, in the meantime seeming to dismiss your less expensive but more powerful class A/B amps. In the meantime going on & on about "quality" like everything else is just cheap trash.

    Each class of amp is very different from the others, with even more different pricetags. Just as all of us are at different stages in this hobby with different goals in mind.

    But I believe that the majority who come on here (especially newbies) are either beginners, or maybe intermediates who are here because they realize that Polk speakers are give you a lot of bang for your buck, and if they want to improve their systems they will also want good bang for their buck with amplification that will truly make a difference and they will clearly hear the improvement.

    I've seen plenty buy less powerful A/B amps & couldn't hear a difference, but I have yet to see someone say that they couldn't hear a difference with a powerful A/B amp. They were happy & they didn't break the bank with their purchase. This is what I try to accomplish when I make my recommendations.

    So those of you who are into tubes & class A amps need to be more forthcoming and honest about the class of amp, and price when you recommend your types of amps, and not just say it's about quality & not quantity. I believe it's call "Full Disclosure"!:biggrin:

    I'm sorry cfrizz, you make as many blanket, generalized statements as anyone here. And secondly, h9 spent three pages explaining that this thread wasn't about tube amps.

    He posted a link about a 15W First Watt JFET amp pushing Gallo's (88db efficiency) and was commenting on how it's misleading and flatly wrong to assert you need 200W to drive speakers like SDA's or LSi's that have similar or better efficincies than the Gallos. I'm sure you take excption to that as those assertions appear to be you mantra.
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,273
    edited February 2011
    Like the man says:

    quote......"Is this a generalization that works for everyone in every situation? No, but I'd take"

    :smile:

    And gives a reference to the 6moons review on his personal justification and review...not yours, not mine but his own...although everyone has the right to agree or disagree

    but all in all I got the feeling from his thread we were offered from 1st hand experience to give it a try

    Maybe I am wrong but just my 2cents...from a 40 something new to this hobby sounds like fun:biggrin:
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,769
    edited February 2011
    One just cannot beat empiricism (in my hardly humble opinion) - earning the right to one's opinions by experience.
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited February 2011
    newrival wrote: »
    I'm sorry cfrizz, you make as many blanket, generalized statements as anyone here. And secondly, h9 spent three pages explaining that this thread wasn't about tube amps.

    He posted a link about a 15W First Watt JFET amp pushing Gallo's (88db efficiency) and was commenting on how it's misleading and flatly wrong to assert you need 200W to drive speakers like SDA's or LSi's that have similar or better efficincies than the Gallos. I'm sure you take excption to that as those assertions appear to be you mantra.

    The lowest priced First Watt 2 channel amp on Audiogon is $1400.00 with prices increasing up to $3240.00, all for 2 channel amps.

    If you are just into 2 channel this might be worth it to you. But if you are into multichannel, you can spend a whole lot less and get 5-7 channels worth of high amplification.

    My statements are aimed at people who are looking to get the best out of their multichannel setups. And as George Grand pointed out and extra 100wpc never hurt anyone. While that lack of 100wpc can definately hurt someone using LSIs in a HT setting, or from excessive volume in a large room even with 2 channels.

    Until I realized what I wasn't hearing from my speakers until I got my Parasound 1500A was an eye opener. I want everyone to get the best out of whatever speakers they have.

    When I first came on here in 2004 everyone was into HT & "man amps" now a good lot have gone in a different direction with 2 totally separate systems or just 2 channel etc. and have grown way past the majority of what the market actually is. which is fine, but my focus is still on helping newbies get the best out of their modest systems, which is usually a combo HT/2chnl setup

    I'm happy for those of you who have gone so far beyond the majority of the existing market, which is HT but that is where my focus & recommendations are at. And more power is definately better in the HT setting, Otherwise so many of these companies wouldn't be bothered with making multichannel amps.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • B&W802d
    B&W802d Posts: 72
    edited February 2011
    I agree you don't need 200wpc BUT I like having the reserves when I decide to push the volume. Nothing worse than wanting to turn it up and the sound quality goes to crap due to a lack of power. Also nice to be able to get 80 watts of Class A before it jumps over to Class B (Classe CA-400). In the beginning of my journey wpc is all I cared about, now I could care less. Just with my setup I liked the sound better with the big boys.
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  • On3s&Z3r0s
    On3s&Z3r0s Posts: 1,013
    edited February 2011
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned the importance of damping factor. Tube amps have low ones and that's why they are better. It says so in this article about the Aleph 30... or did I read that wrong? :rolleyes:

    Actually, I hate to admit it, but I'm only half kidding (about my ignorance, not about the damping factor... I'm all kidding about that). This stuff is hard if you're not a physicist, and even if you are, in this case it's like being an economist... you have to learn a bunch of math stuff just so you can disagree with your peers.

    Personally, I had some mid-fi NAD gear (various amps and integrates from 50-75wpc) that sounded not very good on a pair of SDA 2's, got a 105wpc Hafler not much improvement, ditched the Hafler for a B&K 200.2 and all the sudden there was a big improvment. Then I got some SDA 2B's and discovered that a 55wpc NAD receiver sounds basically as good as the B&K.

    An interesting question would be would the Aleph 30 make the SDA 2's sound more like the B&K or more like the other stuff. And, honestly, I don't know if I should be able to make a guess at that by looking at the specs. Assuming you can even find specs for an amp. I was considering buying a Musical Fidelity A3CR... couldn't even find specs for it (about the best I could do is that it's 120wpc, I think), and there are several average joe user reviews online that say it peters out on some kinds of music played at normal critical listening volume.

    It is kind of a bummer that you don't know until you hear stuff, and since I generally can't afford to buy decent gear new, I can't hear it in a showroom. When I'm trying to decide what to buy, I look at the numbers in the specs but more often than not I'm stuck going on reputation and reviews. I'd imagine that's what most folks end up doing, right?
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  • bikerboy
    bikerboy Posts: 1,211
    edited February 2011
    Its good I tuned in when I did. I am listening to LCD Soundsystem through the B&K ST-202 amp and waiting for a Pass Labs Aleph 30 to get here. I will be able answer or not your question about these amps. I think amps are where the smallest changes can be made but Im getting a new amp anyway. I want balanced inputs as well as better sound. I think most people under-rate the source anyway. Once the speakers and the source are good the rest just completes the picture. Thats why we read these dam forums and get ideas. Ideas are dangerous. Back to the tunes. LCD Soundsystem is the best. I can change, never change, thats why we fall in love.
    Main system: Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 w/ Pioneer 42" plazma-> Polk LSiM 703 w/Tivo, Marantz tuner, BRPTT: Nothingham Spacedeck-> Pioneer PL L1000 linear arm-> Soundsmith DL 103R-> SUT->Bottlehead ErosDigital: I3 PC w/ Jriver playing flac -> Sonore Ultrarendu -> Twisted Pair Audio ESS 9028 w/ Mercury IVY Vinyl rips: ESI Juli@24/192-> i3 PC server
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  • Jetmaker737
    Jetmaker737 Posts: 1,045
    edited February 2011
    bikerboy wrote: »
    LCD Soundsystem is the best. I can change, never change, thats why we fall in love.

    Awesome album!... the London Sessions remix is good too.
    SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|Nakamichi RX-202 Cassette
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2011
    bikerboy wrote: »
    Its good I tuned in when I did. I am listening to LCD Soundsystem through the B&K ST-202 amp and waiting for a Pass Labs Aleph 30 to get here. I will be able answer or not your question about these amps. I think amps are where the smallest changes can be made but Im getting a new amp anyway. I want balanced inputs as well as better sound. I think most people under-rate the source anyway. Once the speakers and the source are good the rest just completes the picture. Thats why we read these dam forums and get ideas. Ideas are dangerous. Back to the tunes. LCD Soundsystem is the best. I can change, never change, thats why we fall in love.

    All I can say is the Aleph made a huge believer out of me that 1) simple is better 2) you don't need 200wpc.

    As always YMMV, we all have different expectations, biases, likes, dislikes, etc, etc. There are soooooooooo many variables in this hobby from one rig to another it's staggering.

    I can say on Friday night I was watching Peter Gabriel's "Growing Up Live" DVD in Dolby 2.0 and I had the Aleph so loud my ears were ringing. My walls were pulsating and the bass reverberating through my toes was impressive. Not a hint of harshness, every detail as clear as a bell. I admit I was at the edge of the limits of the amp, but it was LOUD and was shaking the walls.

    This amp would eat most amps rated 5 times the power. I don't say that to boast or chest thump. You don't need 200wpc.

    Bikerboy I'm anxious to hear your impressions good, bad, indifferent. Just be sure to let the amp cook for about an hour before making any comments. The character of the amp changes quite a bit from cold to hot.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited February 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    .

    This amp would eat most amps rated 5 times the power. I don't say that to boast or chest thump.
    While I have no doubt the A30 is a great amplifier and you obviously have very strong feelings toward it, claiming such is a bit of a stretch IMO.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2011
    FTGV wrote: »
    While I have no doubt the A30 is a great amplifier and you obviously have very strong feelings toward it, claiming such is a bit of a stretch IMO.

    Have you heard one before? Compared to several other amps 3-7 times the rated output? Side by side?

    I realize this is my opinion and perhaps my words were a little dramatic, but I can assure you compared to the 4 or 5 amps (which are extremely popular here on CP) they didn't do anything better and in many cases the A30 did things the others couldn't.

    Again my only statement is you don't need 200wpc in most cases.

    I am not trying to be argumentative nor flippant or trying to say the A30 is the best, be all, end all, or the right amp for every situation. What I'm trying to get across is the 200wpc mantra is a fallacy in a majority of instances. And not to pay particular attention to a wattage rating given by a manufacturer or be tied to the idea you need "x" amount of watts to accomplish your audio goals.

    You, I and everyone else could come up with several instances where the A30 would be underpowered. But in reality that would be for few situation specific instances.

    I was and still am one of the more skeptical people in this hobby and I continue to be amazed at what I have been told or read doesn't align with reality after you get your ears on gear, etc.

    I also started this thread to counter the 200wpc mantra that seems to have become the standard here in every thread asking about how much power they need or what to do do to get more clarity or dynamics, etc, etc, etc.

    It's not about watts, that's one small piece of a larger puzzle.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited February 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Have you heard one before? Compared to several other amps 3-7 times the rated output? Side by side?
    I have heard the original Zen having built one,and it's said to sound quite similar to the A3/A30 albeit lower powered.
    I realize this is my opinion and perhaps my words were a little dramatic, but I can assure you compared to the 4 or 5 amps (which are extremely popular here on CP)
    I would have agreed with the word some but most is widely inclusive and I'm certain there exist many a very fine sounding higher powered amplifier with which you have not compared your unit.
    Again my only statement is you don't need 200wpc in most cases.
    Agreed my statement above is in regards to pure SQ quality,and that SQ is not a result of the higher power output.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,769
    edited February 2011
    FTGV wrote: »
    While I have no doubt the A30 is a great amplifier and you obviously have very strong feelings toward it, claiming such is a bit of a stretch IMO.

    That five-fold delta in "rated power" is only a difference of 7 dB.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited February 2011
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    That five-fold delta in "rated power" is only a difference of 7 dB.

    See my previous post,I'm was refering to intrinsic sound quality not power output.:wink:
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