Tri lams harsh?

danger boy · June 2003

Ok is anyone having similar problems with their speakers that use Tri Lam tweeters? The more I tweak and upgrade things in my system.. the harsher the highs become. My upgrade/tweaks have helped with the clarity, openness, and imaging.. but at the expense of my ears.

I was under the impression that by upgrading to higher quality interconnects, speaker cables, better components, external amps, etc.. that I would be happier with the sound. So far that's not the case. The only things I have not upgraded has been my speakers. Maybe that's where I need to make a change.

Fronts are RT800i's, center is 400i, surround are FX/300i, etc.

So is anyone else who uses tri lam tweeters having the same results as me? If you are please post or email me so we can compare notes. Do the silk dome tweeters handle brightness or digital harshness any better?

I guess if I had another pair of a different brand of speakers I could compare using those in my system. I do have two other pairs... but they are crappy and already sound pretty bad on any system.

thanks, Al

brettw22 · June 2003

My older Rt16's have the Tri Lam and true, with certain DVD's or music, they are a little bright to listen to. I think that it's just the nature of the Tri Lam's to be that way. If I remember correctly in reading posts in the past, the upgrade that has most notably changed the sound of them was an external amp......though i suppose that would just depend on which amp you went with........

VR3 · June 2003

The tri-lams are harsh mofos...the silks are much smoother. It is not just you. However, ever since I started using adcom - the brightness has dropped significantly.

pjdami · June 2003

Danger boy,

This problem you speak of is one of the major reasons I have chosen the LSi route. Tri-lam bad combo for my acoustic environment. Seperate NAD amp helped a little for a while on my Paradigm Studio 40s....but these got fatiguing to listen to for me also. Thats just me though...and maybe you too.

I agree that the new silk dome is a tad smoother sounding also.

Paul

Dr. Spec · June 2003

The 3803 made the tri-lams brighter.

The M1.4's made them smoother and more laid back. The Lowe's wire was quite a bit brighter in comparison.

The Signal Cable A2's also had the same effect of smoothing and laying back the highs.

Overall, my tri-lams are more detailed and less harsh and less bright with my particular set of upgrades. Unfortunately, it seemed to work the other way for you.

Doc

faster100 · June 2003

I concur, My rti70's as some of you know are brighter then i like, I have tried a few things, ie: wire, interconencts, and they still seem bright. I do however do as ATC mentioned and turn the treble to 0 or -2 and that seems to usually fix the problem, But at a certain level of loudness nothing really totally helps.. Maybe polks new line with the vifa tweets will smooth the harshness away??????? I feel ya though, it does get fatiguing after awhile on high volume to listen to.. This is the systems only down fall on my end.. otherwise i love my system, OH well the sub will change but thats a given right?

bigsexy1 · June 2003

After years of listening to Klipsch, the tri-lams are silky smooth to my ears.

Ron-P · June 2003

I run RT55's, CS400 and AB755's..all have Tri-Lams. I do not find them harsh at all, but rather very detailed, crisp and clean. My ears love'em. Even before I added my Adcom amps and was just running the Marantz receiver they were not harsh at all.

I did try some interconnects that I ordered from Signal Cables and although they were great quality, they did turn things harash on me. After 15 minutes of listening, my ears felt like they were plugging up. I ended up returning those and plugging my Monster Interlink 400s back in.

Peace Out~:D

danger boy · June 2003

guys... most of what you all are saying sounds very familiar. while I can turn the treble down on my receiver.. it's still a bit to bright for my ears. I may have to back off on the Monster z2 bi-wires and go back to some kind of speaker wire instead. the Monster bi wires reallly cleared things up.. but also exposed some harsh brightness in my system. From what i'm hearing is that the tri-lams are a bright tweeter to begin with.

Al

STUFFMD · June 2003

Hey Spaceman Spiff,
What kind of Speaker Cables/wire are you using????
Stuff

dcarlson · June 2003

Are those wires brand new? What brand of receiver are you using? Your wires may need some burning in if they're new. The wires might be exposing the brightness from another component in your system.

Just a thought.

danger boy · June 2003

Originally posted by dcarlson
Are those wires brand new? What brand of receiver are you using? Your wires may need some burning in if they're new. The wires might be exposing the brightness from another component in your system.

Just a thought.

if this is for me. my speaker wires are about three months old now. so they should be broken in now. True the wired might be exposing the brightness from another component. but then it may also be the tweeters too.

dcarlson · June 2003

but then it may also be the tweeters too.

In that case, it's up to you on the path you want to take. Do you get new speakers to tame harshness? If you've always found the cables to be harsh, maybe they don't match your system.

I have the RT1000i with Kimber 4vs speaker wire, I don't find them to be harsh but of course it's all subjective.

ncw · June 2003

Originally posted by danger boy
Ok is anyone having similar problems with their speakers that use Tri Lam tweeters? The more I tweak and upgrade things in my system.. the harsher the highs become. My upgrade/tweaks have helped with the clarity, openness, and imaging.. but at the expense of my ears.

[... cut]

Fronts are RT800i's, center is 400i, surround are FX/300i, etc.

thanks, Al

Al,

Consider:

1. Consider your room acoustics. Is it contributing to the over-bright sound?

2. Is the brightness attributable to the recording?

3. Are you driving the amplifier to clipping?

If none of the above applies, then perhaps your ears need resting. In my experience, music sounds better on Saturdays and Sundays. Not only that, every one's pain threshold is different - perhaps you have a lower pain threshold. The fatique can also be caused by subwoofer level being too high, or that the music is simply being played at too high a volume. You can't blame the tweeter alone for the fatique. Once fatique sets in, you are more sensitive to high frequencies.

danger boy · June 2003

Originally posted by ncw
Al,

Consider:

1. Consider your room acoustics. Is it contributing to the over-bright sound?

2. Is the brightness attributable to the recording?

3. Are you driving the amplifier to clipping?

If none of the above applies, then perhaps your ears need resting. In my experience, music sounds better on Saturdays and Sundays. Not only that, every one's pain threshold is different - perhaps you have a lower pain threshold. The fatique can also be caused by subwoofer level being too high, or that the music is simply being played at too high a volume. You can't blame the tweeter alone for the fatique. Once fatique sets in, you are more sensitive to high frequencies.

1. Room acoustics i think aren't the problem. it's solid walls, with enough furniture to dampen the sound. solid concrete floor with carpet and pad over it.

2. yes some recordings on CD are brighter than others. this harshness is usually only on CD's and the tuner. not on DVD movies. Home theater really rocks with this set up. Clean, clear and not to bright at all.

3. Amp(s) are not clipping. Adcome 5400 125wpc forfronts. all other amps are Marantz 125wpc too. i moved them around to the fronts. and the brightness is still there. meaning it's not the Adcom adding harshness.

I understand the fatigue and what it's like. My previous KLH speakers were extremely bright. fatigue set in, in about 30 mins or less. The Polk rt800's sound really good. just to harsh. The more I crank the volume the more harsh it gets.. but that's at pretty high volumes.. like 95db or more. it's really loud for music.

faster100 · June 2003

Yup, same here.. HT sounds great!! radio music or some cd's sound bright.. It's the tweeters, maybe the room, maybe the receiver.. it's a bunch of stuff albeit...

TroyD · June 2003

I've never thought that the trilam tweeters were harsh. Back when I had everything wired to just the receiver, at REALLY high volumes it would get a little harsh but at normal listening levels, I've never thought that to be the case.

The trilam is actually a soft dome tweeter that has been treated. It sort of a compromise between the silk and true metal tweeters. It's my experience that it is a great compromise, maybe not for all but it works quite well for me.

BDT

VR3 · June 2003

I back my tri-lams off to -2 on my receiver. Sometimes even to -6. It all depends on the recording...But to me the Tri Lams were very bright, I preferred the Silks over the tri-lams. Much smoother, IMO. But the harshness of the Tri-Lams is kinda like Yamaha. To some its a kick in the balls and to others its kingdom. Im a fence sitters honestly, some days I like them, some days I just turn the stereo off and jam to my compy speakers. It dosnt really matter to me, each way Im gonna be listening to music. Just one sounds like 5,000,000 times better. haha

mantis · June 2003

I owned an array of rt series Tri lam speakers.Over the years of owning them,I tried alot of differnt things to calm them down.
At one point I found that the rt series speakers wen't for me,it could be the case here.If you listen to your system and find it annoying like Brightness,somethings wrong....maybe you own the wrong speakers.

It took me along time to admit that,I loved my system then hated it...

RuSsMaN · June 2003

Originally posted by ATCVenom
However, the SDA tweets by contrast are much more harsh than even the Tri Lams. I can actually feel the pressure in the ear build up with these...

Brotha, what is wrong with your SDA's? MUCH more harsh than the Polk tri-lam? I understand we each hear things differently, but I've never heard the SDA/RTA/Monitor series called *harsh* on the top end. Hell, the exact opposite if anything 'too laid back' etc.

Wierd.

mantis · June 2003

Not to knock ATC's opnion but I don't think he knows what he hears sometimes.I can't figure out what he's talking about.

But hey who am I to say what he hears........he should change is name to Mikey

danger boy · June 2003

I guess for me... i need to explore other interconnect cables, speaker wires, etc before I even think about new fronts. The thought of new fronts is very exciting. But, i'm not ready to give up on the RT800i's quite yet.

I have read here that they do better in home theater than they do for two channel music. I have to agree with that statement whole heartedly.

I might have to do away with biwiring the fronts and see how that works for a while. When i first got the biwires and amps.. i did that because the brightness was to much. When I replaced the metal with 12 guage monster wire and did not biwire them... the only difference I noticed was that i lost some imaging... which I didn't care for.

For the record, i do have a small amount of hearing loss.. it's been that way ever since I was in school. funny thing is my loss is with high frequencies.. not mid or lows.

RuSsMaN · June 2003

Just to be clear, ATC, I was NOT attacking your views, just simply shocked by your relation of the SDA being 'more harsh' (harsher?) than the RT tri-lam.

I've heard from plenty of people that don't like the SDA (monitor/rta) series, and just stating that their usual complaint was the tweeter rolling off too early, or being too mellow, laid back.

A 180 from the 'normal' complaints, if you will.

Cheers,
Rooster

F1nut · June 2003

danger boy,

Help me understand about this brightness you hear. Is it really brightness or is it sibilance?

jrausch · June 2003

Kill that jitter ridden harsh sound with a DAC. The problem with upgrades is the quality gear your adding let's everything pass through. Nail it at the source.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3030863722&category=3272

brettw22 · June 2003

ATC......pardon if this comes off as overly rude...but for some reason, I get a mental picture of you sitting at your puter doing draft after draft of your posts....just seems so......starched.....Relax...:D

mantis · June 2003

ATC,
you just come off the wall with alot of what you hear.It's what you hear,well thats fine and all but strikes me funny.

You should change your name to Mikey.

Or just back out of audio for awhile..you hate everything

dcarlson · June 2003

I guess for me... i need to explore other interconnect cables, speaker wires, etc before I even think about new fronts.

Sounds like a good idea. Like jrausch said it could also be your source.

STUFFMD · June 2003

One thing I noticed is that if you bi-wire the Rt's they sound very open and good, but if you put the straps back on, I noticed that the speaker smoothed out significantly...
Somthing to try ..Stuff

Ron-P · June 2003

Hey Spaceman Spiff,
What kind of Speaker Cables/wire are you using????

Monster Interlink 400's.

Peace Out~:D

danger boy · June 2003

Originally posted by jrausch
Kill that jitter ridden harsh sound with a DAC. The problem with upgrades is the quality gear your adding let's everything pass through. Nail it at the source.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3030863722&category=3272

jrausch,

I already have a DAC. I too thougth that would tame the harshness... it did a little but not all of it. I love my DAC. here are pics of it on this thread http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10413

Tri lams harsh?

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