Fellas, ya' gotta try this. Cheap and effective way to extract more out of your system!
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Alot of new fixtures come with pre-installed connectors to where you can just push in the wiring and they are junk always. Cut that crap off and use wire nuts and tape- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Alot of new fixtures come with pre-installed connectors to where you can just push in the wiring and they are junk always. Cut that crap off and use wire nuts and tape
There are these things called "wago" connectors which as basically stab-ins but with the flaws fixed.
That's about all I know about them, but they're interesting and I've seen people on r/electricians actually use them. -
99% of our call backs for lights not working were from those connectors- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Gardenstater wrote: »Is it possible that the improvement you are hearing is just due to the fact that the old breaker had oxidized contacts that caused an impedance to transient current response? Putting the new one in and also scuffing up the copper wire and removing oxidation from that, minimized that contact resistance.
Could you give us the make and model# of the breakers, old vs. new?
Agree. Load centers' bus bars are all different metallurgy as well. Most are plated steel for longevity against the galvanic reaction to the breaker itself, but some have solid copper bus bars. Hearing a sound change in cable switch-out alone, would indicate that switching out load center/breaker materials would do the same, would it not?
Kudos to @treitz3
Buss bars are not made of steel, they are copper, aluminum, tin plated copper or very rarely brass. -
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Slam the hammer down !!
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None of this matters if you don't have a transformer dedicated to your home only.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
99% of our call backs for lights not working were from those connectors
Good to know then. Will avoid them. -
None of this matters if you don't have a transformer dedicated to your home only.
Didn't some guy in Japan do this? -
YesPolitical Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
We have our very own dedicated transformer.
If you go big enough with a solar array, they mandate you have your own.
Can't say I have noticed any improvements in audio or noise floor...but then I wasn't focused on audio while it was all being installed.
"Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
Ummmm that looks good!!! Do you shoot it with salt and lime?? Or just balls out straight?Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2
Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
Pre Cary SLP-05
Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Rythmik F12 -
An interesting discussion without any serious conclusions made, regarding aluminum and copper bus bars in load centers, apparently both being tin plated. Square D QO are copper and Square D Homeline are aluminum. A contact treatment was mentioned that is interesting and might be worth trying in the audio circuit. "Total Contact" from Perfect Path Technologies. Cryo treated Virtual Dynamics Romex was also mentioned.
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/sound-differences-between-copper-and-aluminum-bus-bar-electrical-panels
PS - looks like the company making Total Contact may have vanished. Probably was high priced snake oil, maybe even extra virgin lol.
PPS - "Powerful Quantum Reaction at every connection" Whooooaaaaaa.....say no more......cha ching!
But look.....a positive review of this unobtanium
https://v2.stereotimes.com/post/perfectpath-technlogies-total-contact/
Post edited by Gardenstater onGeorge / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Crown D150 amp
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
Gardenstater wrote: »Is it possible that the improvement you are hearing is just due to the fact that the old breaker had oxidized contacts that caused an impedance to transient current response? Putting the new one in and also scuffing up the copper wire and removing oxidation from that, minimized that contact resistance.
Could you give us the make and model# of the breakers, old vs. new?
Agree. Load centers' bus bars are all different metallurgy as well. Most are plated steel for longevity against the galvanic reaction to the breaker itself, but some have solid copper bus bars. Hearing a sound change in cable switch-out alone, would indicate that switching out load center/breaker materials would do the same, would it not?
Kudos to @treitz3
Buss bars are not made of steel, they are copper, aluminum, tin plated copper or very rarely brass.
10-4. Most ones I've seen looked plated. I assumed Cad plate steel. So what grade of copper are the "copper" buss bars made from. TeCu lol?Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
Balls out straight when it's being used as cologne. To ensure even coverage.I disabled signatures. -
Cologne????? LMAO Scott!!! I thought it was the new tequila! Who needs the worm, we've got SNAKE oil
Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2
Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
With the exception of the OP....
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
What I am hearing now versus last week?
Laughable. YMMV.
I don't care what you think. I will enjoy while you debate and talk anything and everything but...the end result as to what hits your ears!
When you all want to get down to serious talk (like we have for the past 6 years.....without trolls interrupting?) I am game.
Until then? I'm seriously out. I am too old for this chit.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I believe you Tom!
When I got home from work I climbed our power pole to change out the aluminum bus bars at the transformer with pure OCC copper bars. I must have been grounded installing the last one because I just remember coming to, laying in the wet grass. My GF says the impact with the ground probably restarted my heart.
Now I'm sitting here in the sweet spot playing my reference tracks and there is a noticeable improvement! Especially with finite details! If I can only get rid of this buzzing in my left ear and the incessant smell of burnt hair.Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
Like I said....
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
If it isn't dark where it should be, extremely intricate where it is and incredibly enjoyable at every moment? Something is amiss in your system.
To those who asked me direct questions? I will answer them but not with a troll in the mix. I miss the casual conversations where we simply spoke about our experiences, without the riffraff.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
What I am hearing now versus last week?
Laughable. YMMV.
I don't care what you think. I will enjoy while you debate and talk anything and everything but...the end result as to what hits your ears!
When you all want to get down to serious talk (like we have for the past 6 years.....without trolls interrupting?) I am game.
Until then? I'm seriously out. I am too old for this chit.
Tom
Tom, to be fair I think much of what was discussed here was productive on the subject, there is always going to be healthy skepticism when it comes to topics such as this. For example I refused to believe upgrading power cables could have any positive effect on sound quality. I am a believer now. When it comes the the breaker, all I can say is everything else has got to be damn near perfect in the power delivery to the stereo equipment for something like this to make a difference. I'm pretty damn positive that changing a breaker in my old **** house isn't gonna make a discernable difference and I'd argue that would more than likely be a similar in most cases where other more important power upgrades haven't already been carried out (high quality dedicated wiring, receptacles, power cords, connectors, linear power supplies etc). I'm no expert on the matter, but that's what my size small brain thinks.
Either way, don't rage quit over the reaction, I think it's to be expected no matter where you go on topics such as this.
2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave
2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius -
Thank you for your "reasonable" response.
I will NOT quit. I will give my impressions whether they carry the current status quo or break the boundaries. I could care less what people think. Good friends, not so good friends or anyone in-between.
This change (to me and these ears)? Wow.
When things settle down and the squaking from the swamp from Idiocracy shuts up?
We can talk. Until then? F all of them.
I'd honestly rather listen to music than convince someone of something I have already discovered. I can't change minds, so why bother?
Time is precious and costly for me. Why bother? When the zit poppers are done with there bum hole woes? Then, I may speak and offer my observations but until then?
*pass that joint over to me*
'Cause I could give a flying F.
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Um, sorry mods.....for being so direct. It is what it is....
Please forgive me.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I'd be most interested in someone providing specific details in any differences between HD and supply house breakers because all of my searching has come up with absolutely no difference including many alleged electricians stating there is no difference.
Do I believe the act of cleaning the contact area by changing the breaker and cleaning the wire could make an improvement? Yes. Do I believe there was an improvement by installing a "better" breaker? Hell no.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I never stated that a "better" breaker was installed. I did state what I had read/researched on.....and what I did as a result.
What I did state is that different metals were apparenrly used within a CB. Whether that's splitting hairs or getting into the finite differences of something I could really care one iota about? Seriously. That was not the point of my post.
I'll leave that debate up to those on the internet. What I hear? Well, that is the ONLY thing I am hear to talk about.
This is an undeniable change and one that is most welcome....especially after the changes (and money/time/experimentation) I have spent on my rig.
What I am saying is that I could care less about the debate. What I DO care about is sharing my experience in what I am experiencing as to the end result as to what hits these ears.
The end result I would talk about but why bother with all of the noise?
That would be like listening before I made any changes to begin with. In other words, a waste of my time. A bunch of noise hindering the music....
When the silence begins? The music flows...
( and before another damned debate begins, this has NOTHING to do with the noise floor or noise period)
Tom
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Yes you did in your first post.I never stated that a "better" breaker was installed.
You seem to be ruling out that the changes you've heard are more likely due to the cleaning of the contact area and
wire.
So, how about not wasting my time and tell me/us what metals are used in your new supply house breaker vs. your (store bought?) old one. If you don't know then point me to someone that does because I can't find any facts to support that.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
What I'm seeing here; 1. Op posts something at best controversial and then gets his hackles up when called out on it. 2. A young fellow has just enough knowledge to be dangerous. 3. A bottle that I mistakenly thought was enima solution is actually a drink.
What an entertaining thread
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treitz3 wrote:I never stated that a "better" breaker was installed.Yes you did in your first post.
I have known you for a long time. This kind of response from you is a cheap shot and undeserved. Here is a quote....and EXACT quote of what I said.treitz3 wrote:Well, it appears that the CB's (Circuit breakers) are not all made alike. The ones that are available at the general hardware stores are not the same. Yes, they are UL listed (in other words, safe for use) but that they use the cheaper, inferior metals in the CB itself.
---You seem to be ruling out that the changes you've heard are more likely due to the cleaning of the contact area and wire.
*sigh*treitz3 wrote:My home was built in 1982 and I have a feeling that the entire panel was changed out when the original owner (also named Tom) built the shop/landscape shop and the sunroom/made a new MBR.
I would estimate that the addition was built within the past 20 years. Assuming that, and the panel change being that long ago, that's 20 years of use for that breaker. That's also 20 years of nothing moving along the ground post and positive connection with said breaker.
You and I both know that simply cleaning a connection makes a change. Here, I cleaned the copper wire and replaced an estimated 20 year old breaker. On the main connection leading to the system itself.....not a PC or an IC...the main connection.
So, even though I talk about the very thing I am supposedly ruling out? I don't believe myself? Is that what you are suggesting? These are exact quotes from this thread. Nowhere else.So, how about not wasting my time and tell me/us what metals are used in your new supply house breaker vs. your (store bought?) old one. If you don't know then point me to someone that does because I can't find any facts to support that.
Wasting your time? This entire GD thread is a waste of my time. It is the reason I don't even want to share my discoveries/observations anymore. I have no inkling that I am being "called out" or "caught" on something.....and while I may be embarrassed for the forum that I even made this thread, I stand by every GD statement I made within it (besides missing a joke).
The truth is I DO NOT CARE about this silly little debate that came about. All I care about is the end result as to what hits my ears. Take your debate about the metal used and stick it where the sun don't shine for all I care. I DO NOT CARE.
It was a comment, based upon my research that lead to me swapping out a breaker. That lead to positive results in my system. I posted. That's it.
Reread that last sentence again before I have to quote myself again 4 pages from now (if I even return to this orgy of stupidity). JHC.
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
