Fellas, ya' gotta try this. Cheap and effective way to extract more out of your system!
Comments
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The kw750 at peak output can draw 22 amps, just saying
There are also many amps that require 30 amp circuits
Yep, mine can draw 19.5 amps. It's on a 30 amp circuit.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Those spring stab backs were known to cause fires from the spring loosing tension from heat build up, they then would arc which as you can plainly see that one was on its way. NEVER USE THOSE!!Gardenstater wrote: »Here's the back of a 45 yr old or so duplex outlet and the wires I pulled out of it, in a bathroom where they were using a hand hair dryer on a daily basis. They had no clue there was a problem. Do you think they would've heard a problem if this was supplying an amplifier in a high resolution audio system, and it was then replaced with a brand new hospital grade outlet? Do you think the contacts inside an old circuit breaker could oxidize like this, possibly?
My father used those when he built the house I now own in 1989. Over the years while he was alive I'd get a call to come fix an outlet or switch because they were sparking. He was the cheapest SOB, he spent a princely sum of .15¢ on the switch and .20¢ on the outlets. For a dime more he could have bought a much superior switch and outlet. First thing I did when I moved in to take care of my mother was change out every outlet and switch. Trust me not one came from the bulk bin on the bottom shelf at the building store. My mother bulked but I told he I'd never be able to sleep at night knowing I could wake up dead. When I showed her some of her melted switches and outlets she was astonished that the house never caught fire.
Yep ya don't have to tell me. Electricians worth their salt never use them, at least not the ones that only rely on a spring and don't have the screw clamp feature. Anyway, if we had a time machine we could go back and tar and feather whoever did it.
George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
another thought (for everyone) is the size of the service drop or lateral (electrical feed to the home) . . .
if it's small diameter, only so much juice can flow thru . . . Dig?
Will need the power company to run 3/0AWG from the lines, I don't know what the cost is. -
stangman67 wrote: »
Still mind boggling how some people here think I'm going to burn my house down when I do everything up to code. I own a Canadian code book from 2021 (CSA C22.1HB:21).
Then again... its become apparent many people here do not know what they are talking about. -
You keep saying that2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave
2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius -
stangman67 wrote: »You keep saying that
You keep being arrogant. Seems you're the deformed banana of the bunch -
I have never had an issue back stabbing a switch or outlet, what I have found over the years, is the screw coming loose on a couple switches, and you could tell they were sparking, for the record I did not install them.
Also I don’t purchase switches or outlets out of the bottom bin either.. -
Gardenstater wrote: »Well it seems some people can't read and decided to omit the fact I've stated multiple times this is dangerous to do and that I'm putting my 15A back 😂
Anyhow I did my swap. Popped the 15 out and put the 20 in. I did it hot too (NEVER DO IT HOT). Listened to Time, Great Gig in the Sky, Is There Anybody Out There, Comfortably Numb, Telegraph Road, and Money for Nothing.
Wire insulation did not rise above room temperature. No electrical fires to be had (because I was only drawing a couple amps of current).
Put the 15A back in because of code and safety reasons (apparently some people don't seem to grasp this).
Anyhow, I have my verdict on the breaker swap.
Based on the facts, and subjective listening, using the highest quality 20A breaker the electrical department at the hardware store I'm employed at sells, there was zero difference in the sound quality of my system, and I was thoroughly disappointed. If it was really that easy to make a huge difference, I'd have loved to have been proven wrong.
Unfortunately it's simply impossible, and my ears agreed with me.
Reminder to not deal with electrical stuff unless you know what you're doing, it's dangerous and unforgiving. Most breakers also use the same types of metal now.
Maybe I should test a GFCI or AFCI 🙃
Did you clean the copper wire where it is inserted into the new breaker? Devils in the details if you want to try to compare your results with treitz3. Also, you cannot rule out that his breaker may have been higher quality and made better contact to the hot bus and internally than the one you used. Also, his old breaker may have been in a poorer state than your old one.
Breakers are breakers. If his old one was in worse shape it wouldn't be working properly or he'd notice obvious issues with it. My copper wires were visibly flawless so I didn't clean them.
You do realize that 'better contact with the hot bus' is probably the most incredible thing I've ever read. If it made better contact, it wouldn't make a difference because it can handle the power throughput required, if it made inferior contact, it'd possibly cause an electrical fire. The way breakers go into the hot bus is a standard.
If treitz30 posts his breaker make and model, I'd be more than glad to see if mine is higher/equal/worse quality.
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stangman67 wrote: »You keep saying that
You keep being arrogant. Seems you're the deformed banana of the bunch
I wouldn’t describe my choice of tone in response to you as arrogant. Uppity maybe, but definitely not arrogant. I’m just smart enough to spot someone who is clearly out of his depth. You keep acting like you know everything about everything you post about and refuse to accept that there are many others here with vast amounts more experience. It’s a real **** attitude to have in life and one that won’t serve you well as you navigate adulthood. And with that, I’m back to observe mode, try not to burn your parent’s house down.
2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave
2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius -
I have never had an issue back stabbing a switch or outlet, what I have found over the years, is the screw coming loose on a couple switches, and you could tell they were sparking, for the record I did not install them.
Also I don’t purchase switches or outlets out of the bottom bin either..
Backstabbing an outlet is dangerous. Light switches can be and you shouldn't do it but it's much more dangerous to do it on an outlet.
Ask any electrician why they're bad. Also just look it up online. It's not a safe thing to do. -
stangman67 wrote: »stangman67 wrote: »You keep saying that
You keep being arrogant. Seems you're the deformed banana of the bunch
I wouldn’t describe my choice of tone in response to you as arrogant. Uppity maybe, but definitely not arrogant. I’m just smart enough to spot someone who is clearly out of his depth. You keep acting like you know everything about everything you post about and refuse to accept that there are many others here with vast amounts more experience. It’s a real **** attitude to have in life and one that won’t serve you well as you navigate adulthood. And with that, I’m back to observe mode, try not to burn your parent’s house down.
It's scary that people like you do electrical work... if you think I don't know what I'm talking about then apparently you don't know basic electrical code, safety, and properties. Read the NEC 1897 code book and work your way up, bud.
Kinda shocked you're not a troll lol -
I have never met anyone so starved for an all you can eat knuckle samwich buffet.I disabled signatures.
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I have never had an issue back stabbing a switch or outlet, what I have found over the years, is the screw coming loose on a couple switches, and you could tell they were sparking, for the record I did not install them.
Also I don’t purchase switches or outlets out of the bottom bin either..
Backstabbing an outlet is dangerous. Light switches can be and you shouldn't do it but it's much more dangerous to do it on an outlet.
Ask any electrician why they're bad. Also just look it up online. It's not a safe thing to do.
Okay, then one has to ask, why are the holes there, and why is it not against code to use them? I have changed out many over the years, and have found them installed both ways, and I never gave it a second thought, I just swapped them out, and moved on, I have never seen anything bad by them being installed like this..
And honestly the only reason the outlets were ever changed is because we were repainting a room, and the wife would want a different color, and new face plates.. -
@ChrisD06 you should learn more about amplifiers especially class A and class A/b and how impedance of a speaker changes with frequency. You don't have to listen at concert levels to get voltage drop.
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No need to look it up pal, I just explained why it's bad in my response to George.Ask any electrician why they're bad. Also just look it up online. It's not a safe thing to do.
@Toolfan66.
I do not believe the spring back stabbers(Chinese handcuff type)are on the market anymore. Now they do have a new version that actually clamps the wire between copper or brass plates. The same screw that you can wrap the wire around tightens both. Much better than the old spring Chinese handcuffed type. -
@ChrisD06 you should learn more about amplifiers especially class A and class A/b and how impedance of a speaker changes with frequency. You don't have to listen at concert levels to get voltage drop.
I have a vague understanding about it, but I'll do some research.
Even at normal listening levels though, would you really experience a massive spike in current that exceeds 15A from the wall? Especially when your speakers are only using a fraction of that. It seems extremely excessive and wouldn't this all be handled by the capacitors and transformers in the amplifier itself? -
No need to look it up pal, I just explained why it's bad in my response to George.Ask any electrician why they're bad. Also just look it up online. It's not a safe thing to do.
@Toolfan66.
I do not believe the spring back stabbers(Chinese handcuff type)are on the market anymore. Now they do have a new version that actually clamps the wire between copper or brass plates. The same screw that you can wrap the wire around tightens both. Much better than the old spring Chinese handcuffed type.
I missed that. Also they have the Chinese handcuff type ones here in Canada still, but us Canadians are always behind. -
No need to look it up pal, I just explained why it's bad in my response to George.Ask any electrician why they're bad. Also just look it up online. It's not a safe thing to do.
@Toolfan66.
I do not believe the spring back stabbers(Chinese handcuff type)are on the market anymore. Now they do have a new version that actually clamps the wire between copper or brass plates. The same screw that you can wrap the wire around tightens both. Much better than the old spring Chinese handcuffed type.
I missed that. Also they have the Chinese handcuff type ones here in Canada still, but us Canadians are always behind.
You should go buy some and use them! On a 30amp feed!!
Get some! -
No need to look it up pal, I just explained why it's bad in my response to George.Ask any electrician why they're bad. Also just look it up online. It's not a safe thing to do.
@Toolfan66.
I do not believe the spring back stabbers(Chinese handcuff type)are on the market anymore. Now they do have a new version that actually clamps the wire between copper or brass plates. The same screw that you can wrap the wire around tightens both. Much better than the old spring Chinese handcuffed type.
I missed that. Also they have the Chinese handcuff type ones here in Canada still, but us Canadians are always behind.
You should go buy some and use them! On a 30amp feed!!
Get some!
I only have room for them on a 60 amp 240v feed. Would that work? -
Just curious if anyone shares neutrals or are you selfish and keep them for yourself?
Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
I was contemplating swapping my breaker for a tried and true fuse bock and inserting a finely polished copper penny. A real solid copper one, not one of those copper plated zinc jobbers.Stan
Main 2ch:
Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.
HT:
Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60
Other stuff:
Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601 -
"electricians" double and triple 'em up all the time . . . like there's a doz unused fasteners on that buss bar! . . . . so USE'EM
We are talking about inside the main electrical panel, right?AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
Pre Cary SLP-05
Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Rythmik F12 -
Are box and pipe fill rules, or just suggestions? Asking for a friend.... Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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Hmmmmm . . . no posts for a while.
Tonight must be a school night. -
Gardenstater wrote: »Is it possible that the improvement you are hearing is just due to the fact that the old breaker had oxidized contacts that caused an impedance to transient current response? Putting the new one in and also scuffing up the copper wire and removing oxidation from that, minimized that contact resistance.
Could you give us the make and model# of the breakers, old vs. new?
Agree. Load centers' bus bars are all different metallurgy as well. Most are plated steel for longevity against the galvanic reaction to the breaker itself, but some have solid copper bus bars. Hearing a sound change in cable switch-out alone, would indicate that switching out load center/breaker materials would do the same, would it not?
Kudos to @treitz3Post edited by xschop onDon't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
So I talked to the electrician who has done a bunch of work in our building, and has done a couple things for me in our garage,
I prefer the wrap around, all will work, but I feel it is better in the long run.
So I guess I have something to do when I feel board at home.. LOL!!! -
When we do full change out at work we require to use the screws and a loop.
Many years ago we wasted about 3 hours of troubleshooting due to a bad back stab connection and that was that. We also throw away quick connects on lights that you see now, wire nuts and tape- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
That's just common sense, as the quick-connects have very little conductor-conductor contact junction compared to screw-loop. Should be against code IMO.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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Hey Trey, curious - what does this mean, and what is the alternative? Thanks.We also throw away quick connects on lights that you see now, wire nuts and tape
I disabled signatures. -
If replacing the line breaker is effective, then shouldn't the main breaker be replaced as well? Pull the meter, swap the main and the line breakers, burnish the wires or even use deoxit, and while you are at it install a new hospital grade outlet. I mean, if everything matters, then everything should be addressed, I think.Sources: Technics SL1200MKII | SME3009 Tonearm | Monster Alpha 1 MC cartridge | Oppo UDP203 disk player | Nikko NT-790 analog tuner | Musical Fidelity Trivista 21 DAC | Preamp: Threshold SL-10 | Amplifier: Threshold Stasis 2 | Speakers: Snell Acoustics C/V | Kimber 12-TC bi wire speakers | Analysis plus Oval 1 preamp to amp | Wireworld Eclipse 7 DAC to Preamp | Wireworld eclipse digital IC Oppo to DAC | Audioquest Quartz tuner to preamp |
