Looking forward to L800 but have concerns, what are your thoughts?

Options
1…1314161819…24

Comments

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 52,406
    Options
    I experienced it and it wasn't like the experience at Skip's event.
    · Share on Facebook
  • halen
    halen Posts: 743
    Options
    Are you John F1? If not. This doesn’t apply to you.
    · Share on Facebook
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 52,406
    Options
    Give it a rest Halen.
    · Share on Facebook
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Options
    This content has been removed.
  • halen
    halen Posts: 743
    edited February 2020
    Options
    Tell John to and I will.

    If you tell me the new SDA’s are same or better than the old ones. I don’t know which model.

    I will buy it. Right now.
    · Share on Facebook
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 52,406
    Options
    Fine, both of you give it a rest and thank you.
    · Share on Facebook
  • halen
    halen Posts: 743
    edited February 2020
    Options
    ...
    · Share on Facebook
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 52,406
    Options
    Looking into the Edge integrated amp I found this information and have to wonder if the topology, like the Marantz PM10 is not a good match with the L800.
    We completely removed all the capacitors from the signal path and instead introduced a DC coupled topology to the board. We decided that capacitors needed to be removed from the signal path, simply because they can be responsible for adding more distortion and colour than many other components. This technology prevents the delivery of DC to your speakers by using dedicated servos to inject equal and opposite amounts of DC, therefore eliminating it completely. With this improvement though, the signal is incredibly clean and concise, vastly reducing colouration.

    Class XA is our proprietary amplification system which combines the best of Class A and Class AB amplification, delivering the sound quality of a Class A amp while retaining the efficiency of a Class AB amp. Class XA differs by adding voltage to a traditional Class AB design, shifting the crossover point to a position where the audio distortion is not audible to the human ear.

    Thoughts....comments on the above?
    · Share on Facebook
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,250
    Options
    Not sure. If the amp delivers an AC signal, irrespective of its method, the speaker should reproduce it.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
    · Share on Facebook
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    edited February 2020
    Options
    This content has been removed.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 52,406
    Options
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Not sure. If the amp delivers an AC signal, irrespective of its method, the speaker should reproduce it.

    The PM10 uses a dual differential balanced topology, which does not work well with the L800, so topology definitely matters.
    · Share on Facebook
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Options
    This content has been removed.
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 12,015
    Options
    John...Post 22022 ^^^^^^... B)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.

    “Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured.”
    --Mark Twain.

    “If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you.” - Steven Wright
    · Share on Facebook
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 35,562
    edited February 2020
    Options
    F1nut wrote: »
    Looking into the Edge integrated amp I found this information and have to wonder if the topology, like the Marantz PM10 is not a good match with the L800.
    We completely removed all the capacitors from the signal path and instead introduced a DC coupled topology to the board. We decided that capacitors needed to be removed from the signal path, simply because they can be responsible for adding more distortion and colour than many other components. This technology prevents the delivery of DC to your speakers by using dedicated servos to inject equal and opposite amounts of DC, therefore eliminating it completely. With this improvement though, the signal is incredibly clean and concise, vastly reducing colouration.

    Class XA is our proprietary amplification system which combines the best of Class A and Class AB amplification, delivering the sound quality of a Class A amp while retaining the efficiency of a Class AB amp. Class XA differs by adding voltage to a traditional Class AB design, shifting the crossover point to a position where the audio distortion is not audible to the human ear.

    Thoughts....comments on the above?

    I agree that capacitors are pretty nonlinear gizmos and best kept out of the signal path if and when possible -- as long as those servos stay balanced, all is well. When they go awry, loudspeakers fry. :(

    A capacitor or transformer is a blunt but very effective tool to keep DC away from loudspeakers. When the budget permits, though, there are good ones. They just ain't cheap. :)

    Now, on topic, I would posit (expert EE that I am -- not ;) ) that the complexity of the circuits as I read that could induce small, frequency-dependent phase shifts that could wreak havoc with the SDA signal handling.

    Just spitballin'.

    EDIT: It may be that the L800 is a good qualitative tool for measuring phase distortion. B)

    PS The last sentence suggests to me that 'Class XA' is a high-bias Class AB :p
    Remember, kids: if they don't call it Class A -- it ain't Class A.
    ;)
    · Share on Facebook
  • mpitogo
    mpitogo Posts: 523
    Options
    contrats @ptrooper hope you enjoy them!

    Interesting read on the capacitors in the amplifier, while going into the speakers there are massive capacitors in the passive xover.
    • Living Room Music-2.1 Polk Legend L800 | SVS SB1000Pro | McIntosh C70 | McIntosh MA5200 (Treble) | McIntosh MC452 (Bass) | Sublimeacoustic K231 Active xover | Denon DP-2500A | Denafrips Ares II | Marantz HD-CD1 | Belkin Soundform Connect | iPad Pro USB to DAC
    • Home Theater-9.7.6/15.1 (Atmos/Auro-3D) Polk LSiM707, LSiM706c, LSiM702 F/X [x6], Height LSiM703 [x6], HSU ULS-15Mk2x4, VTF-15HMk2x2, VTF-TN1 | Trinnov Altitude 16+4 (2024) | Rotel RB-1590 (L/R) | Appollon NC500 11ch | Martin Logan MP500x2 | Topping DX7s, E50 | AppleTV 4K | Zidoo Z9X | JVC RS2100 | 150” Elite Screen Acoustic Pro UHD
    • Game Room-5.1 Polk LSi25, LSiC, LSiF/X | Marantz SR7009 | AppleTV 4K | Sony UBP-X800 | Xbox One S | Sony PS2, PS3 | Nintendo Wii | Gaming PC | Sony 75" LCD
    • Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Marantz PM-10 | Marantz SA-10 | SONY PS-HX500
    • Office-2.1 B&W Formation Duo and Bass
    • Daughter's Gaming Rig-2.0 Ascend Acoustics Sierra LX | Martin Logan Forte
    • Orphans DSW microPRO3000x2 | Rotel RA-1570 | Marantz AV8805A
    • Guest Room 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | SMSL DO100 Pro 2 | Pass ACA v1.6 Monoblocks
    • Guest Room 3-3.0 Martin Logan Motion 40, 50XT | Onkyo TX-SR705 | Apple TV | Samsung 55" TV
    • Guest Room 4-2.0 QAcoustics 3030i | Sansui AU-6900 | Sansui FR-1080 | Fire TV
    • Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
    · Share on Facebook
  • Mike Reeter
    Mike Reeter Posts: 4,315
    Options
    ptrooper wrote: »
    Well ,I hope they work well with a recapped sunfire sig series 625x 2 or a theatre gand signiture 5x 405 as i'll have a set in black in around 7 days .
    There will be an oppo 105D bluray /pre amp with the Joe Rasmussen 4.2 ABC signiture upgrades, this has no capacitors inline via the output stage, cabling via transparent reference xl balanced cables to a Sunfire Signiture ,from there with transparent reference biwire speaker cables to the L800's
    The room will be 18ft x 15ft....L800's will be 4 ft apart with reinforced side walls which are also only 4 ft away, the rear brick wall is a 9 ft wide partition at the same height as the L800's , i'll be trying to keep them around 5 inch's or under infront of this wall,behind this partition is another 18 ft x 15 ft room being a dining/kitchen so a good possibility a few hard surfaces might need treating .It'l be better explained with pics l8er.
    Time will tell
    The Vr3 Abbot CRS + 4.1's will now be doing rear duties in the theatre room.
    Exciting stuff .
    Hope the australian english can be followed.
    cheers Sean

    Congrats man! Another Member who is actually going to own a pair!

    · Share on Facebook
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,077
    Options
    I would try for a little more than 4 feet apart. Can you squeeze another foot on each side and at least hit 6 feet apart ?. 7 or 8 would be even better but I feel 6 may be a bare minimum for the sound to develop.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
    · Share on Facebook
  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 10,174
    Options
    Good on you, ptrooper!
    · Share on Facebook
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Options
    This content has been removed.
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 29,748
    Options
    Between the angled baffle, dual tweeters, higher frequency sda channel and the dedicated bass section with a power port... There are minimal similarities between the L800 and any sda speakers other than the core technology
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
    · Share on Facebook
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 52,406
    Options
    VR3 wrote: »
    Between the angled baffle, dual tweeters, higher frequency sda channel and the dedicated bass section with a power port... There are minimal similarities between the L800 and any sda speakers other than the core technology

    Yep
    · Share on Facebook
  • Mikey081057
    Mikey081057 Posts: 7,127
    Options
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3ezBecK788

    I didn't read the whole thread so apologies if this was previously posted
    My New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160

    Family Room| Marantz AV7704| Usher Dancer Mini - 2 DMD Mains |Usher Dancer Mini-x DMD's Surrounds | Usher BE-616 DMD Center | SVS Ultra Rear Surrounds | Parasound Halo A21 | Parsound Halo A52+ | MIT Shotgun S3's | Dual SVS SB 4000 Ultras | Oppo UDP 203 | Directv Genie HD DVR | Samsung 75" Q8 QLED | PSAudio Stellar GCD | Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ | Lumin U1 Mini | HP Elite Slice PC | ROON'd for life |

    ManCave: HT:Polk LSiM 706VR3 LSiM 703's LSiM 702's|| Marantz AV7002 AV PrePro Sunfire TGA-7401| Sony PS4 Pro| Sony PS4 Pro|SVS PB13 Ultra| Oppo UDP 203 | Music Hall MMF 5.3se TT w/ Soundsmith Carmen | Samsung 55" SUHD TV | Sony PS4

    Patio | Polk Atrium 8's | Yamaha R-N303BL |

    Office BlueSound Node| KEF LS50 | Peactree Nova 125SE |

    Bedroom | Focal 905's | Chromecast Audio |

    Garage | Polk Monitor 5B's

    Closet Yamaha M80 | 2 Polk MP3K subs| Yaqin MC100B with Shuguang Treasures KT 88's & CV181Z's | Tesla E83CC's | Marantz 2252B | Marantz 2385 |Polk SDA SRS 2.3 | LSiM 705's |
    · Share on Facebook
  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,327
    Options
    @ptrooper i have first hand experience with a sunfire sig Ii 625x2 and sda. They play very nicely together. I had 2.3 and 1.2 on the 625x2 with excellent results. I also had a McIntosh 2105 and a sunfire 300x2 , the sig II is a much better sounding amp. I sold it to @vcwatkins a while back to "upgrade" to a McIntosh mc402. I still feel to this day it was not an upgrade, it was just a different sound. Mine was redone by Roland.

    Good amp choice in my opinion.


    · Share on Facebook
  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,327
    Options
    Speaking of past SDA, when i had the basement to myself, i had the 1.2 & 2.3, so placement was never an issue. FF to years later to the livingroom with one side wall 13 feet on the right and 20+ feet on the left using 3.1's and they did suprising well. Actually darn good. I only sold them to go to the Tyler's that are way too big for the room but i still like them.

    I know the 3.1 were designed for a smaller room and seem more forgiving on placement. Was there a difference on the sda with the 3.1 or was it just placement of the drivers within the cabinet?
    · Share on Facebook
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Options
    This content has been removed.
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 12,015
    Options
    This is my understanding of SDA per Polk audio's explanation. Seems logical for sure. Flat speaker baffles. ;)
    cbiu4zcb36yx.png

    I immediately thought about DCM Time windows when I saw the new Legend L800 pictures. These Time Windows are very spacious sounding because of their angled baffles I believe. I've owned 2 pr's of these DCMs and know their sound quite well.
    ex4ok8mk9stx.png

    Each design is superb!

    But...how do you combine the two designs and think it'll work. I'm also thinking and agreeing with the above comments, adding the other elements of the new L800 may be a negative. But what do I know, I don't own a set of the L800's yet.

    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.

    “Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured.”
    --Mark Twain.

    “If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you.” - Steven Wright
    · Share on Facebook
  • displayname
    displayname Posts: 1,248
    Options
    Mikey081057 wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3ezBecK788

    I didn't read the whole thread so apologies if this was previously posted
    Check page 14 and the next couple pages after. We've had some solid discussion related to this review.
    Analog: Hana ML > VPI Prime Signature 21 > Bob's Devices Sky 20-S > Sutherland 20/20 w/LPS
    Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
    Norma IPA-140 > Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
    Hifiman EF600 > Hifiman Arya Stealth
    Discogs
    · Share on Facebook
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Options
    This content has been removed.
  • HzTweaker
    HzTweaker Posts: 1,136
    Options
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    erniejade wrote: »
    Speaking of past SDA, when i had the basement to myself, i had the 1.2 & 2.3, so placement was never an issue. FF to years later to the livingroom with one side wall 13 feet on the right and 20+ feet on the left using 3.1's and they did suprising well. Actually darn good. I only sold them to go to the Tyler's that are way too big for the room but i still like them.

    I know the 3.1 were designed for a smaller room and seem more forgiving on placement. Was there a difference on the sda with the 3.1 or was it just placement of the drivers within the cabinet?

    There is only one driver for the dimensional array, so placement was much less critical. They are the most forgiving of placement issues of all the SDA line IMHO.

    Could be the only thing shared between the past SDAs and the L800 excluding the XOer circuitry?
    2ch rig: Speakers: LSi9s with VR3's Fortress mods Preamplifier: Parasound P5 DAC: Fiio K13 Amplifier: Parasound A23 CDP: Pioneer DV-563A Cables: Wireworld Equinox 7 XLR ICs, Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 USB, AudioQuest Q2s, AudioQuest NRG X(preamp)

    Standby: Magnepan LRS w/Magna Riser stands
    · Share on Facebook