What pisses me off....Power cords

13

Comments

  • verb
    verb Posts: 9,912
    Is it just me? Are @treitz3 and @joecoulson related? :smile:

    uk9fq5qpyp2g.png
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  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 4,442
    Ming lives!

    (And he has a twin = double trouble from not one, but two evil geniuses 😬)
    Alea jacta est!
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,459
    What speakers were they?
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 14,560
    Tyler Acoustics Taylos 7U's in ribbon mahogany.

    I gotta admit, there are some really ugly mugs posted in this thread!

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~

    ~ I have found excellence ~

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 1,649
    OMG!!! I just looked up those Tyler Acoustics........$4300 in 2001!! I'll bet there was some real tears shed on that fall. That totally sucks.
  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,944
    Whoa Dave!! Those are both pics of Tom!!
  • verb
    verb Posts: 9,912
    edited December 2019
    Too funny! Sorry Joe. I mean sorry Tom! :smile: And I gotta get my reading glasses cleaned! :smile:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 11,783
    Definitely a classic hold my beer I got this
    Been passed around for years, still tragic but fun pic
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    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • pkquat
    pkquat Posts: 733
    @treitz3 Sorry for your loss :'(:s , but that pic did make my day :D . Too bad there was not an America's Funniest Pictures show, or the luck of that shot didn't expand to the lottery. You might have made more than enough to cover the loss of the speaker.
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Now, take that PC out of the system and throw it on the ground or drop it on the ground. You have just disturbed the electron flow. It's akin to taking a screwdriver and hitting the end of it with a hammer. Doing so can make it a positive magnetic tendency or a negative magnetic tendency. It's the same screwdriver that looks exactly the same but with different characteristics. Well, if you take a cord out, drop it on the ground or otherwise disturb it, the electron flow will be altered. It's the same PC that looks exactly the same but with different characteristics.

    Tom

    I heard a little about this before, but even relating to disturbing cables when they are changed out, or carried from demos etc. It would be something interesting to test. It also makes me wonder if for cable demos they beat up the stock cable. :p

    BjornB17 wrote: »
    I'm not disagreeing, but trying to understand how a power cable makes such a big difference when the wires in your walls to the outlet are nothing special? Do special power cables attenuate the electricity from wall into the equipment in some way?

    @BjornB17 I was somewhat skeptical too, and had the same question. It was explained to me this way. The Power Cord (PC) is acting like a filter to deliver the cleanest power to the system. Part of that also means that the cord itself is not acting like an antenna for outside noise. I am not an electrical engineer, but IMO this has some legitimacy to it.

    I did hear an Audioquest demo on a McIntosh system where there were differences in sound between the stock cable, an AudioQuest cable and an AudioQuest cable and power conditioner combo. Since I was not familiar with the material being played I could not distinctly say what was different or better, however there was a perception that the sound was improving with the cable and then the power conditioner.

    I'd really like to do some more wide ranging testing with various levels of equipment sometime, such as a $600 cord with a $1,000 amp vs a $2,000 amp or even overal system price. It also had me wondering why the ~10k+ McIntosh system shipped with ~$5 power cords, or other filtration etc. is not build into equipment if it makes that much difference.

  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 14,560
    edited December 2019
    F1nut wrote: »
    It's simple Tom, the stock cords were restricting current. The PS Audio cords aren't, which means more bass. Turning the volume down on the subs will get the balance back.

    Sounds logical and honestly, I was thinking the same thing but after settling in a bit and making some minor adjustments this time (Being VERY calculated), it's not just the volume. My initial impressions/thoughts did not lie.

    There was this overpondering "thump" at the lowest of octaves and the kick drum. I can't F'n STAND that. Musicality, not typical sub "Thump" at any frequency or reproductive effort. I heard it while I was sitting at the desk in the LR/office as well as in the room itself whether or not I was sitting in the sweet spot. Kind of like a single note sub, if you will. (Not really but roll with it) If I were to guess, it was exaggerated at or near 48Hz? Don't hold me to it but that's what I consistently experienced album after album. Drove me Knuckin' Futz!

    I have not touched the volume at all (go figure) and the sound stage has gotten even better and the imaging is off the charts across the entire spectrum. Much better in the LR/office as well casually listening at both low and loud volumes.

    I feel much better that I am no longer at start. It's a hell of a lot better than it sounded before with very minor adjustments and is now dialed in/well balanced to the rest of the system. Maybe not perfect yet but oh, so much closer than I thought I would be now when I first made the OP on this thread.

    *Gets down on both knees and thanks the Lawd above*

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~

    ~ I have found excellence ~

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 14,560
    Please allow me to describe this a little better...

    Bear with me...it was as if there was a particular frequency that was over-exaggerated. The end result as to what hit the ears was that it masked the texture of other frequencies in the lower spectrums of music. This, in turn was a loss of what I have worked so hard to achieve.

    The lower spectrum of frequencies (to me) are the absolute HARDEST to get to match to a system/room/album consistently. Even with an great front end and an established rest of system, once something takes away from what you are used too? You miss what you had.

    What I had was texture, definition and an absolute solid definition of mid bass to low bass, all the way down to subterranean bass. This was with all instruments and noises within the vast majority of all recordings. I know everything is recording dependent but something was amiss with the change. I knew it immediately and could not stand it.

    I'm an estimated 80-85% back to where I was before but with an unexpected yet pleasurable array of extra attributes. I'll keep tweaking and eventually I'll dial it in perfectly. From what I hear so far, I am confident in that statement. I hope I am not incorrect.

    Merry Christmas, y'all.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~

    ~ I have found excellence ~

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 24,676
    Glad you got it dialed In broskizzle
    - Not Tom

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • My mint dcm time windows took a fall like that from my step son and they only had a little cosmetic damage and they jammed. My buddy that had klipsh horns couldnt believe how good they sound behind a modded carver m1.5t . he was in aaahhh. lol.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 14,560
    Okay. I am more than 80-85% there. Probably more like 95% there.

    For what I want to achieve? I have never achieved what I have tonight. EVER.

    I played...

    axcyo4v1dujb.png

    ....the "Choo-choo song, as I call it. Hugh Masekela's Stimila. This is the best rendition I have ran across to date for this song. None even comes close.

    With that said, I played it as loud as I could with no distortion and enjoyed. Then the song ended. I was anticipating a "very loud" drum kick(s) on the next track. I know from personal experience that I have ducked before like a shotgun went off in the room.

    Well, it was not a shotgun this time. It was a performance that I have never had before, even after listening to it 100's of times in this very same room. I don't have the Dodd in the loop. I have a temporary Cary something or other SS preamp that I (admittedly) am not too fond of, given what I am used too with the Dodd MLP.

    Whatever. That has little to do with the song I just heard because the magic with the Dodd is/was the upper most bliss. This song is ALL drums and wood instruments that hit to make noise. No upper frequencies whatsoever.

    Holy-moly....Lawd, praise the man above...

    I was there. In the performance. Front row, or hell, even on stage. With all of the passion, with all of the experience, with all of the pound you THROUGH the chest and core experience. Hot Damn man. Wow. That's all I can say. As soon as it comes, it's gone and on to the next drum beat.

    I have heard this very song on many a system hundreds of times, including on my own. It's what use to dial in things and reduce any room noises (which can be MANY with the depth of the drum beats on this song).

    When I started to listen, I noticed a sound stage that I had not previously perceived before. It was wider, much wider. The depth was further back and their was an introduction of height I never imagined before. The biggest change was the width. It went from 2-4 feet outside of the speakers (which is outside of the walls of the room) to double the distance. Now sounds were emanating the same distance that was in-between the speakers to the same distance that would be outside of the speakers.

    Unreal.

    I noticed things that were always there before but were in completely different locations, moving backward, sideways, upward and then forwards, regardless of the crescendo. It made me pay attention to where the sounds were moving.

    It was akin to a Pink Floyd album but with nothing but drums. I have never experienced that before. Like I said, this is one of my reference songs I have heard many, many times before.

    It's late, I'm pretty sure my neighbors do not like me right now after that but it is what it is. It may have been because the grid is at low demand at this time of night. It may be that I have hit the jackpot but damn, I definitely look forward to "experiencing" this again. I would have paid to hear what I heard tonight.

    Tom


    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~

    ~ I have found excellence ~

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 22,982
    I would like to find a copy of that CD...
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  • BlueBirdMusic
    BlueBirdMusic Registered User Posts: 1,549
    edited December 2019
    Tom,
    How about posting a picture of that CD. I want to own it too.
    Harry

    Edit:
    I didn't realize that was a picture of the CD.

    0q39cjhyec5f.jpg

    $326.00
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Audiophile-Demo-Burmester-CD-3/232026179573?hash=item3605d687f5:g:RXwAAOSw8DpcFiGP
    Post edited by BlueBirdMusic on
    Remember at least 2,448 heroes +13 on 08/26/2021
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    Harry / Marietta Georgia

  • msg
    msg Posts: 6,597
    Post its contact info too. I want to take it on a date.
    I disabled signatures.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,322
    326 bucks for a cd ?

    Now I know why everyone wants to legalize pot. :)
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  • BlueBirdMusic
    BlueBirdMusic Registered User Posts: 1,549
    tonyb wrote: »
    326 bucks for a cd ?

    Now I know why everyone wants to legalize pot. :)

    Too much for me to own at that price.
    Remember at least 2,448 heroes +13 on 08/26/2021
    LIFE has to be LIVED
    “A sad soul can be just as lethal as a germ.” – John Steinbeck
    You Can't Resist Propaganda if You Can't Recognize It
    If the telephone doesn't ring ......... it's me
    Harry / Marietta Georgia

  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 14,560
    Ouch. The price has gone way out of control on this one but it has been long out of print. I don't recall what I bought mine for. It's been a long time since I bought it. I am lucky enough to have the Burmester collection of CD-01 through 03.

    If memory serves, I was talking about this very CD a couple of years ago (could have been a lot longer though) and it was getting up there in price then. Whoever on this forum wanted it waited about a week or two IIRC and got it for a very respectable amount. There is always one Yahoo on E-Bay that throws the album they have out there for a ridiculous amount of money when their are no other copies available.

    Don't look on E-Bay. Look at other avenues to acquire a copy and check weekly until you can find a copy. I had to do the same thing trying to find a certain Red Rose CD....that one took me almost two years to find but I didn't pay any insane amount to some Yahoo on E-Bay.

    What I can recommend in the meantime for an alternative to this for a reference track would be this one.

    1iybvci3qm1e.png

    Well, this bites. When I went to go look up the image for the alternative recommendation, what I spent 9 dollars on not too long ago is already up to £162.59 online. So much for an alternative. Tell you what, let me give you what info I do have or the UPC numbers.

    Burmester Art For The Ear Vorfuhrungs III - Don't buy the gold CD that is currently going for $30 brand new. Mine isn't gold and I believe that they are Chinese rip offs.

    The Sheffield Lab DXD 352.8KHz mastering on a 99.9% silver CD from Lasting Impressions Music- UPC 4892843002152- Apparently different versions and an XRCD? I don't recall Bruce Brown or Winston Ma ever saying that their was an XRCD version. I might have to call shenanigan's on those. I'd have to ask them if they ever released that. OOP for 2 years, it looks like. This one you should still be able to buy for a reasonable amount...just make sure you get the cover that looks exactly like the one pictured above, otherwise I can't vouch for their legitimacy.

    Sorry gentlemen, I have no other recommendations for something like this at this quality of mastering/recording. I hope the information above helps.

    Tom

    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~

    ~ I have found excellence ~

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

  • msg
    msg Posts: 6,597
    edited December 2019
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Don't look on E-Bay. Look at other avenues to acquire a copy and check weekly until you can find a copy. I had to do the same thing trying to find a certain Red Rose CD....that one took me almost two years to find but I didn't pay any insane amount to some Yahoo on E-Bay.
    Yeah, you guys might try searching for the Burmester stuff over on Discogs. Looks like there've been some sales on that disc earlier this year for significantly lower cost. If you're not too picky about perfect condition, or about buying new.

    Not sure there are any available at the moment, but this should get your search started. You can create an account there and set searches and alerts - https://www.discogs.com/search/?q=burmester&format_exact=Compilation&type=all

    Lots of good information on the release pages as well. Here's the other one Tom recommends above...
    https://www.discogs.com/Various-The-Sheffield-Lab-Drum-Track-Disc-For-Audio-Component-Testing-And-Evaluation/release/5056973

    See how you can see what the price range is?

    rhtev0nkmdxe.png

    I disabled signatures.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 14,560
    Please note that that is for the XRCD (Image above), not the DXD. I don't recall them putting out an XRCD of this one. I'll ask Bruce or Winston if they did or not. May take a couple of days to get back to you on that.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~

    ~ I have found excellence ~

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 14,560
    edited December 2019
    Further note - Even in the book for the one I have (Sheffield Labs, not the Burmester), there is a warning -

    "There has been widespread pirating of FIM products."

    Then it goes on to say that you should only buy from FIM directly. Well, I did. Kind of hard to do that now, seeing as how it is out of print but I will repeat myself. The jacket has to look just like the one pictured, otherwise I cannot vouch for the legitimacy of the product.

    I'll take some photos of the entire book, CD and jacket and post them later on today for those who are interested.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~

    ~ I have found excellence ~

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

  • msg
    msg Posts: 6,597
    edited December 2019
    Good notes Tom.
    Sometimes there are different releases for a given item. Discogs helps give a buyer a shot at finding the specific release if desired. Or at least gives the buyer something to confirm with the seller.

    I've received counterfeit stuff from Ebay purchases before.
    I disabled signatures.
  • BlueBirdMusic
    BlueBirdMusic Registered User Posts: 1,549
    Thanks much guys.
    Remember at least 2,448 heroes +13 on 08/26/2021
    LIFE has to be LIVED
    “A sad soul can be just as lethal as a germ.” – John Steinbeck
    You Can't Resist Propaganda if You Can't Recognize It
    If the telephone doesn't ring ......... it's me
    Harry / Marietta Georgia

  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 14,560
    Crap. They all turned out sideways. I'm not too computer savvy when it comes to fixing that so I'll post it anyways but anyhoo, here is a full array of the original FIM Sheffield disc and book -
    f9nkoidrygzy.png

    Note the gloss on the cover, see through CD jacket with writing on it and even the pages within the book are glossy. If you happen to run by one for sale at a reasonable cost, check these photos and compare it to what I have. If no red flags arise, then you are golden. (Or at least you should be)

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~

    ~ I have found excellence ~

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 14,560
    Well, it turns out I didn't need to contact Bruce or Winston. Here is a thread where we were talking about this exact CD. It's 4 pages long, so give yourself some time to read it whenever you have a chance.

    https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/the-sheffield-lab-drum-track-disc.5248/

    They did make an XRCD of the Drum and Track disc after all. My apologies gentlemen.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~

    ~ I have found excellence ~

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~