What pisses me off....Power cords
treitz3
Posts: 19,137
So, I re adjust everything on my subs for days/weeks on end and listen. All is well. I like what I hear.
So, I go to add in PC's and get my listening on.....The sound completely changes.
I knew that PC changes are "minimal". Little did I know that I was wrong. Completely wrong. It's back to the GD original slate for sound.
I apologize for the attitude but damn....I was expecting the same to "little" difference in sound. Man, was I wrong.
When one reaches a certain point of gear, PC's make more than a difference. They change the entire spectrum of sound. WTF?
Tom
So, I go to add in PC's and get my listening on.....The sound completely changes.
I knew that PC changes are "minimal". Little did I know that I was wrong. Completely wrong. It's back to the GD original slate for sound.
I apologize for the attitude but damn....I was expecting the same to "little" difference in sound. Man, was I wrong.
When one reaches a certain point of gear, PC's make more than a difference. They change the entire spectrum of sound. WTF?
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
Comments
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Welcome to the mystery of high end audio.
I noticed this when I got my Pass X1, and more so with the X0.2... I still need to upgrade the cord on that. The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Power and power cords are the foundation for a system. If you have a weak foundation then the system will never perform at its best. With a good, solid foundation you can expect any system to perform at its best. It took me a while, and a lot of money, to learn that.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
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The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Perhaps I should expand on what I stated. PC's for the "upper end" of the system make a difference. I get that. It's minimal but it adds to the last 5% of said system, which adds to the system (The worth of improvement is up to the beholder).
I had NO IDEA that it would make so much of a difference on the lower end of the spectrum. I had dialed my rig in and then I simply added in the upgraded PC's.
Now I am back to beginning again. THAT'S what pisses me off.
That was a lot of work to dial in said system...
While ignorance may be bliss, it does not move one forward toward better sound. That is the end result I always strive toward.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Did you check the phase?- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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What cables did you get Tom?
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- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Bet those cost a pretty penny
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I actually believe Tom melted a penny to get the copper for which he used to make said cables!- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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I actually believe Tom melted a penny to get the copper for which he used to make said cables!
That's a Federal offense....
Outlaw Cables.... has a ring to it..
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joecoulson wrote: »What cables did you get Tom?
We need to know. Maybe not need but still, quit holding out on us.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
Would they be made in the backwoods in a manner similar to moonshine? Would the ATF need to change their name to include cables?The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
nooshinjohn wrote: »
Would they be made in the backwoods in a manner similar to moonshine? Would the ATF need to change their name to include cables?
Well they did a few years ago they are now ATFE
But I bet in his neck of the woods those guys making spirits are always fearing the ABC'ers. Alcohol Beverage Control
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Yank em and sell em or let em settle-in. I recommend the later🤓AC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
Pre Cary SLP-05
Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Rythmik F12 -
They were PS Audio something or other PC's that I have had for a while just sitting in the closet ready for install. Nothing extraordinarily special. Went from the stock cables to the PSA's and the bottom end is now all discombobulated. Still sounds "good" but is no longer dialed in/well balanced to the rest of the system.
The Rythmik F25's are a beast to dial in because of their size and location. They are on Target stands and very close to the wall. I have to clear the crossover units I have, the main speakers just to get to the subs and then I have to spin them around to make any adjustments, then spin them back around and then shimmy my way back out from the crossover units and the main speakers. Since I have 2 of them, repeat this twice for any adjustment I want to make.
So after weeks of dialing them in, I am back to where I started. The Marantz I have has subterranean bass and the Rhythmik's deliver said bass in spades. I had them right where I wanted them and now I'm back to square one having to start all over again. Grrr....
This hobby is definitely a love/hate relationship.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
That's a Federal offense....
Outlaw Cables.... has a ring to it..
https://www.outlawaudio.com/products/cab_pca_about.html
I actually have a couple of Outlaw IC's laying around here somewhere. Pretty decent IC's that left the system when I got the Transparent Reference IC's.
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Why not just go back to the stock cables 😜- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Why not just go back to the stock cables 😜
Agreed, if you liked what you heard before, why change what isn't broken.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Hey Tom,
maybe I missed it somewhere, but how long have you been running the new PSAs?
I can't explain any of this when it happens to me, but I notice sometimes that my systems sometimes take time to settle down again after I make changes. When it happens I find myself wondering whether I'm imagining it but my cartskin-based listening sensors say otherwise. I've had bass almost completely drop out before from a series of "simple" adjustments that should have had little to no effect. Further, the net effect was a loss of a measure of engagement, ie, that special experience that's difficult to describe, but that we somehow know when it's not there.
The cables could also have gone bad sitting in the closet so long. Maybe even offed themselves out of spite for the lack of attention.I disabled signatures. -
Lol. That last sentence.
I think it will give you something to do Tom. Leave them and work with it, gotta better than stock metallurgy. -
Why not just go back to the stock cables 😜Agreed, if you liked what you heard before, why change what isn't broken.
Because I am constantly pursuing how to extract the very best out of my system. I'm quite sure I'll be in the same situation when the Dodd MLP gets repaired and put back into the system. Besides, I do like what I hear better than the other cords. It's much more enveloping, has more deep bass authority and has considerably enhanced the perceived sound stage and placement of everything...it's just that it's "too much" of a good thing....an overponderance of bass, if you will, when blended with the rest of the rig.
I'll get it right again but with keeping the attributes that came with the PC's. I guess I hate it because the subs are so hard to get at to adjust again.
I finally got around to installing them yesterday afternoon. One of the cords has been in my system for years, the other one, I bought earlier this year because I needed a longer one than the one I had originally slated for that slot in the rig. After hours and hours of listening to many albums, I had a hankerin' to put them in and see what they sounded like. Did not expect them to make THAT much of a difference. Slight yes, what I hear now? Definitely was not expecting that.Hey Tom, maybe I missed it somewhere, but how long have you been running the new PSAs?
I actually though about that very thing last night.I can't explain any of this when it happens to me, but I notice sometimes that my systems sometimes take time to settle down again after I make changes. When it happens I find myself wondering whether I'm imagining it but my cartskin-based listening sensors say otherwise. I've had bass almost completely drop out before from a series of "simple" adjustments that should have had little to no effect. Further, the net effect was a loss of a measure of engagement, ie, that special experience that's difficult to describe, but that we somehow know when it's not there.
Gary Koh (Owner of Genesis) and I were having a discussion many years back about power cords and effects from within them and how they can alter a system. Within that discussion was a down to earth explanation that made perfect sense to me. What he discussed was that PC's have electrons flow through them in a certain way. We both felt that these electrons align themselves the more the system gets played and we both agreed with each other that this was an audible trait for some. Much like a capacitor breaking in, albeit completely different, it is much the same.
Now, take that PC out of the system and throw it on the ground or drop it on the ground. You have just disturbed the electron flow. It's akin to taking a screwdriver and hitting the end of it with a hammer. Doing so can make it a positive magnetic tendency or a negative magnetic tendency. It's the same screwdriver that looks exactly the same but with different characteristics. Well, if you take a cord out, drop it on the ground or otherwise disturb it, the electron flow will be altered. It's the same PC that looks exactly the same but with different characteristics.
The new cord was shipped to me and I have no way of telling just how many times it got thrown down or "shocked" before it got to me.
I will let the system play for a week or two before messing with it for that very reason. It may tone itself down a little bit and then hopefully it will be minor adjustments to get it dialed back to where it was....while enjoying the new attributes.
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
PC and cables are all snake oil. They make no difference in the quality of the signal path. You probably have a head cold coming on or something which alters your hearing perception.
Or not.Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
Insert coconut audio in there somewhere. Tom remember the magic crystals ?
LMAO throw them on the ground and shake up the electrons. Maybe all the electrons fell out when you picked up and didn't cover the IEC holes....
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I'm not disagreeing, but trying to understand how a power cable makes such a big difference when the wires in your walls to the outlet are nothing special? Do special power cables attenuate the electricity from wall into the equipment in some way?KEF Q150 | Rythmik F12 | Yamaha Aventage RX-A780
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It's simple Tom, the stock cords were restricting current. The PS Audio cords aren't, which means more bass. Turning the volume down on the subs will get the balance back.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Settle down Tom....
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Tom you don't have a dedicated circuit yet right? So your whole rig is off one circuit?- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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One circuit for the time being, yes. A 20 amp dedicated is slated soon.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
You should add 3 dedicated circuits- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
