What pisses me off....Power cords
Comments
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BlueBirdMusic wrote: »Tom,
How about posting a picture of that CD. I want to own it too.
Harry
Edit:
I didn't realize that was a picture of the CD.
$326.00
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Audiophile-Demo-Burmester-CD-3/232026179573?hash=item3605d687f5:g:RXwAAOSw8DpcFiGP
And I thought Tom was rocking a Burmester in the house! Are you Tom?
Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD. -
I'll PM you my system. The only thing that will be incorrect is the pre. The Dodd MLP is currently out of the loop for a suspected Power Supply issue and I have a temporary Cary CPA-1 in it's place.
BUT......I have been researching like a mad scientist about acquiring a Burmester pre just in case the Dodd cannot be resurrected. I won't say which one because if it comes available, I don't want anyone else competing with me, driving up the cost even more.
I have also been looking at a Raven tubed pre......we shall see.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Verb,
I thought the same thing about Tom having a Burmester. Crazy thread that started with picture of that James dropping Tom’s speaker.."Sometimes you have to look to the past to understand where you are going in the future"Anger is just anger. It isn’t good. It isn’t bad. It just is. What you do with it is what matters.
You can use it to build or to destroy. You just have to make the choice. Jim Butcher
Harry / Marietta GA -
I just double checked today on the Burmester Art For The Ear Vorfuhrungs III CD. There are two right now at less than half of the amount the twit on Flea Prey is asking.
Amazon - Used, very good - $101 plus shipping and tax (about $12) - https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B001FE5Q2W/ref=tmm_other_meta_binding_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=
E-Bay - Used, very good - $149.99 free shipping - https://www.ebay.com/i/133173834680?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=133173834680&targetid=486563065158&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9010687&poi=&campaignid=8080424395&mkgroupid=83224602413&rlsatarget=pla-486563065158&abcId=1139446&merchantid=8352264&gclid=CjwKCAiAo7HwBRBKEiwAvC_Q8XmHIKX5WDY0igO7PE5u-dPCaDbyuuE95-owdVCiLg_MEo42SBQgKxoCyAkQAvD_BwE
Also E-Bay - Used, very good - $99 plus $20 shipping - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Burmester-Vorfuhrungs-CD-III-Sampler-Demo-Disc-1998/323835410251?hash=item4b6618374b:g:klgAAOSwL8ZdBXRC
Keep searching.....one will probably come up even lower if you give it time. Just keep at it. Nothing on Discogs right now, FYI.
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Searching!!!!"Sometimes you have to look to the past to understand where you are going in the future"Anger is just anger. It isn’t good. It isn’t bad. It just is. What you do with it is what matters.
You can use it to build or to destroy. You just have to make the choice. Jim Butcher
Harry / Marietta GA -
Someone recently posted about a power cord not making any difference. LOL
Okay, if it didn't. why is this thread 4 pages long?
Looking forward to the "Choo-choo song" with the Canary.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
What are these for? I think my TV uses that kind of plug.
https://store.wireworldcable.com/collections/power-conditioning-cords/products/copy-of-electra-7-power-conditioning-cords?variant=12425513173076 -
Hmmm. A six and a half foot hard rod to improve things?
Time for me to go to bed.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
afterburnt wrote: »What are these for? I think my TV uses that kind of plug.
https://store.wireworldcable.com/collections/power-conditioning-cords/products/copy-of-electra-7-power-conditioning-cords?variant=12425513173076
So what's all the hubub, bub? -
I guess I will start my own thread.
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afterburnt wrote: »I guess I will start my own thread.
this appears to have happened -- and it has even been responded to.
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I wonder who would respond to my thread after being ignored here?
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The guy who doesn't believe in boutique pieces of wire
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When one reaches a certain point of gear, PC's make more than a difference. They change the entire spectrum of sound.
Well, I done did it again. I got in a 20amp PC in about a month ago and a couple of days ago? I try it out in my system. At first, I was torn and now that 3 days have gone by? I think that this supposed "upgrade" is just another in the long line of gear that has come and gone.
Usually when I try out PC's, I can immediately tell if they are gonna work out or not. Case in point? I tried out a Pangea something or other on the Auralic Vega G2. That didn't last more than 30 seconds. Yes, it was in and right back out that fast.
Well, the new PC (this time) went from the wall outlet to the Musical Fidelity KW-750 amplifier.
I put it in and there was a difference. It wasn't as bad as the Pangea on the Vega G2 but this time? I heard promise. I heard something that was a definite improvement. The vocals and especially trumpets/horns sounded extremely palpable, pleasing and overall, more realistic.
Problem was, the bass/midbass was severely impacted. All of a sudden, the entire system (whether CD, NAP or vinyl) sounded thin. Where'd the weight go? Where'd the visceral impact go? Why is the texture so limited?
So, what I have learned over the years is to let the PC "settle" a little bit into the system for 2 or 3 days and then re-evaluate. Well, that time has come and gone.
*sigh*
3 days later? Some aspects are improved but it's still sounding lean, thin and without weight or authority....but those mids! Idgit! (me)
Back to the stock cord. I will lose those luscious mids but I'm not willing to sacrifice the other aspects that are a mainstay in my system. So, PC's still piss me off.
Anyone have a nice, short (like 1/2 meter) 20 amp power cord laying around that used to be great for your system but you no longer use because you moved on up the line?
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Why 1/2 meter? I thought most of the cable companies said not to use a power cable that short.
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Is a high resolving system needed to hear the difference in PC's, IC's & speaker cables?
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Why 1/2 meter? I thought most of the cable companies said not to use a power cable that short.
This is honestly something I hadn't heard of yet. This may or may not be the reason I don't like the new PC I tried. What is the preferred or suggested PC length?
Reason I ask, is that if I can't find a nice one? I was going to order a custom length Transparent Reference PC. Not chump change for one of those, so I'd like to get it right. If you would be so kind, please share with me your knowledge on this subject....let me pick your brain for a stint...
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
skipshot12 wrote: »Is a high resolving system needed to hear the difference in PC's, IC's & speaker cables?
Hmmm, that's a loaded question. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It mostly depends on what one listens for, not what they listen to. If that flew over your head? Hear me out.
A listener (even many of the high dollar system listeners) only listen for a few things. Does it sound good? Pass. Does it have a well balanced frequency spectrum? Pass. That may be all they listen too. Heck, I even wonder how some people (who have systems worth more than my house) don't hear a difference when wearing glasses. It makes me wonder if they are even listening....
Experience will let you know (sometimes very quickly) if there is a change. This is where it gets difficult for the inexperienced listener.
There is tonal balance, palpability, weight, simblance, natural rolloff, texture, spatial locationality cues, separation, sound stage (width, depth and height), texture, visceral impact, recording venue size cues and the reflections thereof, clarity, edginess, speed, shimmer, detail, overponderance, bloat, exaggeration, background (blackness), macro and micro dynamics, decay, articulation, pace, rhythm.......and the list of things to listen for are seemingly endless.
All of these things and much more is what I listen too. I usually only post about the main aspects because there isn't enough time in my day to go over ever aspect heard.
With that said, I have heard differences in PC's, IC's and SC's in even the lowest of "audiophilia" systems. Many people who are not even in the hobby probably wouldn't ever notice a daggum thing. As one advances with their knowledge/experience and as one gets a higher resolution system that they are intimately familiar with? The changes become readily and easily noticeable.
At that point? Then they discover the subtleties of each of the aspects aforementioned, along with other aspects that one gains with resolution within a system and experience one gains along their own personal audio journey.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Why 1/2 meter? I thought most of the cable companies said not to use a power cable that short.
This is honestly something I hadn't heard of yet. This may or may not be the reason I don't like the new PC I tried. What is the preferred or suggested PC length?
Reason I ask, is that if I can't find a nice one? I was going to order a custom length Transparent Reference PC. Not chump change for one of those, so I'd like to get it right. If you would be so kind, please share with me your knowledge on this subject....let me pick your brain for a stint...
Tom
Not to answer for invalid and I wouldn’t call this “knowledge” lol but in researching this for a potential purchase myself, I see where Nordost recommends a 2 meter minimum length for power cords. I’ve seen other recommendations of at least 4 feet. Supposedly, shielding and filtering are sacrificed with shorter cables and longer ones sound more fluid than short ones. That said, I have no first-hand experience … yet.Brian
One-owner Polk Audio RTA 15TL speakers refreshed w/ Sonicap, Vishay/Mills and Cardas components by "pitdogg2," "xschop" billet tweeter plates and BH5 | Stereo REL Acoustics T/5x subwoofers w/ Bassline Blue cables | Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp | Technics SL-1210G turntable w/ Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 MM cart | Sony CDP-508ESD CD player (as a transport) | LampizatOr Baltic 4 tube DAC | Nordost & DH Labs cables/interconnects | APC H15 Power Conditioner | GIK Acoustics room treatments | Degritter RCM -
skipshot12 wrote: »Is a high resolving system needed to hear the difference in PC's, IC's & speaker cables?
Hmmm, that's a loaded question. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It mostly depends on what one listens for, not what they listen to. If that flew over your head? Hear me out.
A listener (even many of the high dollar system listeners) only listen for a few things. Does it sound good? Pass. Does it have a well balanced frequency spectrum? Pass. That may be all they listen too. Heck, I even wonder how some people (who have systems worth more than my house) don't hear a difference when wearing glasses. It makes me wonder if they are even listening....
Experience will let you know (sometimes very quickly) if there is a change. This is where it gets difficult for the inexperienced listener.
There is tonal balance, palpability, weight, simblance, natural rolloff, texture, spatial locationality cues, separation, sound stage (width, depth and height), texture, visceral impact, recording venue size cues and the reflections thereof, clarity, edginess, speed, shimmer, detail, overponderance, bloat, exaggeration, background (blackness), macro and micro dynamics, decay, articulation, pace, rhythm.......and the list of things to listen for are seemingly endless.
All of these things and much more is what I listen too. I usually only post about the main aspects because there isn't enough time in my day to go over ever aspect heard.
With that said, I have heard differences in PC's, IC's and SC's in even the lowest of "audiophilia" systems. Many people who are not even in the hobby probably wouldn't ever notice a daggum thing. As one advances with their knowledge/experience and as one gets a higher resolution system that they are intimately familiar with? The changes become readily and easily noticeable.
At that point? Then they discover the subtleties of each of the aspects aforementioned, along with other aspects that one gains with resolution within a system and experience one gains along their own personal audio journey.
Tom
Thank you -
Why 1/2 meter? I thought most of the cable companies said not to use a power cable that short.
This is honestly something I hadn't heard of yet. This may or may not be the reason I don't like the new PC I tried. What is the preferred or suggested PC length?
Reason I ask, is that if I can't find a nice one? I was going to order a custom length Transparent Reference PC. Not chump change for one of those, so I'd like to get it right. If you would be so kind, please share with me your knowledge on this subject....let me pick your brain for a stint...
Tom
Not to answer for invalid and I wouldn’t call this “knowledge” lol but in researching this for a potential purchase myself, I see where Nordost recommends a 2 meter minimum length for power cords. I’ve seen other recommendations of at least 4 feet. Supposedly, shielding and filtering are sacrificed with shorter cables and longer ones sound more fluid than short ones. That said, I have no first-hand experience … yet.
Yeah something about the filtering/noise reduction. Shunyata and Wireworld subscribe to this belief. Shunyata doesn't even offer standard lengths below 6ft. Wireworld does but states that the filtering effect is more effective with the longer lengths. -
Well, I just spoke with someone who sounded like a lab engineer at Transparent Audio (very knowledgeable fella) and he stated that a shorter length PC (1/2 meter) does not affect the performance of their power cables.
That said, the Transparent Reference PC does have a noise filtering network box that doesn't affect the signal at all but does filter/reduce unwanted artifacts. This box does affect the PC length because of the parameters of getting the network box too close to the outlet or to the unit it's plugged into, as well as the flexibility of the cord due to the size of the network box. So, in that case or in any case with one of their PC's that have a network box, it must be a minimum of 1 meter.
They do have a little flexibility in moving the network box one way or another (toward the outlet or unit) without compromising any of the performance of the cable itself.
So, with that said, it looks like I won't be getting a shorter cord after all. Shorter PC lengths and their affect on sound reproduction was an interesting aspect I hadn't really thought of before.
Everyone who I have spoken with today about PC's all stated that you do want to keep them as short as possible (within reason), as this does lessen the chances to pick up unwanted noise/artifacts that can interfere with the reproductive effort.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I have a hard time imagining a use for a 0.5 meter PC unless it’s more flexible than the average one. Then, when you need to upgrade, who’s gonna buy it?
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If your cord is too short though it can definitely interfere with "the reproductive effort", or so I've heard.
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nubby
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Eh, resale isn't my biggest concern (although sometimes it should be).
I only need about a foot to go from my outlet to my amp power supply. My thoughts have always been to keep things as short as possible, as to not increase the chance of introducing unwanted gremlins into the system.
Drew, I read a plethora or articles, links and the like yesterday and it just seemed like hearsay to me. Nobody had a solid enough answer for me, so I decided to speak to the horses mouth. I.E., the manufacturer of the PC I was interested in buying. I spoke with this gentleman at length (about 35 minutes) and the things we discussed held more weight to me than reviews, tech notes, manufacturer's BS and the rest of the stuff I read since the topic of the length of (shorter) PC's came up.
It turns out that, as part of the lab testing, all of the lab workers/engineers at Transparent do NOT rely on just lab results and numbers (Thank gawd). They have their own recording of a symphony that all of them attended live in Portland (so they have a real "Reference") and after/during development, they actually listen. If it does not meet the parameters of their reference, they either scrap the item or adjust to where it gets them to where they want it to be, sonically.
I have moved up the line of Transparent when it comes to IC's and I even have a Transparent SC. The one thing I have never tried is a Transparent PC. Given my experience with Transparent, I don't think I will be headed in the wrong direction and at this point, the shorter length of the cord is an irrelevant debate/discussion to me because a 1 meter length is the bare minimum for their Reference PC.
It is what it is. I still found this to be most interesting, regardless. Especially after hearing Trey's SPDIF cable (same brand, same model, just a different length [1.5m]) make the difference that it did. On his system? That was an incredible (to me) difference. One that I will never forget.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Especially after hearing Trey's SPDIF cable (same brand, same model, just a different length [1.5m]) make the difference that it did.
https://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm -
Tom find some good cable and make you own if you want it that short. There is some really good cable out there in bulk.
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Furutech comes to mind.
