Any owner updates on Carver Crimson 275 stereo tube power amplifier for 2019?

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  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,580
    edited March 3
    FMalitz wrote: »
    I laughed when someone wrote me and asked what DAC and compact disc player Bob would recommend. Bob has never seen a forum. He has no idea what you guys are thinking about.

    Frank
    Bob would recommend finding a CD player with a tubed output stage, but likely not something in the ultra high-end because as an engineer and physicist, he would not see a need for something that simply reads one's and zero's...


    That was easy, and the only person laughed at here is you for being too much of an arrogant snob to think about it for a second.
    Post edited by nooshinjohn on
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,647
    Just throwing this out there; anyone thought that maybe this FMalitz character isn't the real deal? As in, an imposter of the real Frank? Not saying it is or isn't true, just trying to defend Carver, as I like the company.
    I wouldn't buy from a company that is run by FMalitz, whether the owner is Bob or not. But if this dude here is some sort of imposter, then the real Frank could be a great guy, and Carver would be stuck with all this negative press because of a random guy off the internet.
    Strictly FWIW.
    Micah
    Not Tom or Trey or Jim just Micah
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    I've always thought the goal of high-end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.

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  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 1,438
    I've got a headache from reading this discussion. It's like you all summoned up the anti-Christ some how and we got a glimpse of him and now he's gone. Not sure why you would all do that... Is it some kind of test to prove your witchcraft skills or something? Not sure I want to play anymore. Sorry.
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  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,580
    @audioluvr... don’t sweat this thread man. There is a whole story here you don’t have the details on.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,582
    audioluvr wrote: »
    I've got a headache from reading this discussion. It's like you all summoned up the anti-Christ some how and we got a glimpse of him and now he's gone. Not sure why you would all do that... Is it some kind of test to prove your witchcraft skills or something? Not sure I want to play anymore. Sorry.


    heh, you're on to us.


  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 2,227
    Ok folks I was the guy who started the whole Carver Crimson 275 thread.

    Up front and most importantly, I would like to personally apologize to all the forum members at Polk Audio as I never meant to mislead, or create a “cloak and dagger” syndrome over what happened.

    I ordered the amplifier on November 1st 2018.

    Over the next 7.1 weeks I had numerous conversations with the manufacturer and the vendor. I had been conversing with 4 different individuals.

    This was a difficult time as conversations fluctuated.

    On December 20th 2018 when I received the amplifier, I decided to “cut my losses” and just return the amplifier. I also contacted Ken the now retired moderator here at Polk Audio and requested he remove the original thread.

    I then contacted the vendor and the manufacturer letting them know I was returning the amplifier, I DID discuss the specific details for my decision, provide the necessary documentation and shipped the amplifier back.

    I also told the manufacturer I would NOT go on the Polk Audio forum page and make negative comments about the amplifier, the manufacturer or the vendor.

    I also told the manufacturer I did not want any contact from them or the vendor and they have complied with my request.

    Being a man of my word, I have not nor will not discuss the “specifics” of my decision.

    I will tell you I never installed the tubes or powered on the amplifier. With everything up to this point I did not want to take a chance at damaging anything.

    Factually, I did NOT return the amplifier for any performance issues.

    FWIW, I love to go into the specifics but as stated earlier I made a promise to the manufacturer and I will keep my word.

    Probably should not mention this personal part of the story as it might be viewed somehow wrong, but what the heck.

    In the beginning I was like a kid again on Christmas Eve. I was so excited I literally could not sleep the night I placed the order.

    I even wrote up a hypothetical review on my expectations, the break in procedure I was going to use, what speakers first, what cd’s first which actual songs with specific sections of sounds in any given audio tract.

    My wife ordered me some new white cotton gloves to wear while handling the amplifier. I ordered a new custom acrylic cover for when the amplifier was not in use and a new piece of furniture for it to sit on.

    I’d bet I measured where the amp was going to reside 20+ times, sat in my chair and just imagined.

    I also planned that once I did receive the amp and got everything setup, I would spend the next 4 weeks going to what I hoped to be that “magical’ place in the world of tube amplification.

    Finally after the 4 weeks of use, I was going to attempt to write some sort of actual review to let everyone here know what my ears are actually now hearing versus the hypothetical expectations I had in the beginning.

    I closing and to “beat a dead horse”, I said it in the beginning and will say it again. I NEVER wanted to mislead the fine folks at Club Polk who I with GREAT pride consider my comrades in the wonderful of AUDIO!!


  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,582
    edited March 4
    Sorry if I dragged you into this, @oldrocker!

    My interest was and remains in the amplifier (I seriously considered buying one, too) and how they're actually doing in the wild... there's still very little information on that, irrespective of the collateral damage we've been drawn into discussing (again). Personally, I am far less interested in the drama than in the amplifier and how they're really working in the real world.

    ... and I do apologize for fanning the flames. :(

    (and I'd still love to see a photo of one of these amps with the bottom cover removed!)

  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 2,227
    Its all good Doc.

    I was more worried about upsetting the forum as to anything else.

    Trust me, I'll be reading the reviews if and when they surface.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,580
    After what they put you through, they should have let you keep the amp anyway and refunded your money.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 2,227
    After what they put you through, they should have let you keep the amp anyway and refunded your money.

    It's all good.

    Wanna these days, I'm gonna make a drive to Texas, spend some time with a guy that rumor has is it, is one of them there tube guys.....

  • vcwatkinsvcwatkins Posts: 1,939
    oldrocker wrote: »
    On December 20th 2018 when I received the amplifier, I decided to “cut my losses” and just return the amplifier. I also contacted Ken the now retired moderator here at Polk Audio and requested he remove the original thread.
    Just curious - why have the thread removed?
    Den: Rega RP6 * AT33PTGII * Budgie SUT * Jolida jd9 * Roon (Sonic Transporter) * PS Audio DirectStream Jr. * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Sunfire Signature II * PSAudio PP3 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2
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  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,648
    I dunno John, I would think most Audio companies have a story behind them that reads like a day time soap opera filled with drama. Why Carver seems to be the "general Hospital" of audio soap opera still baffles me.

    I think, and just my opinion here, that if Bob himself got out in front of more people, it might go a long way in normalizing the drama.
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  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 2,227
    vcwatkins wrote: »
    oldrocker wrote: »
    On December 20th 2018 when I received the amplifier, I decided to “cut my losses” and just return the amplifier. I also contacted Ken the now retired moderator here at Polk Audio and requested he remove the original thread.
    Just curious - why have the thread removed?

    It was a big exciting thing for me back then, some members showed excitement/curiosity also.

    It then became a very negative emotional thing and I didn't want to mislead anyone who might have been considering purchasing one themselves.

    I just wanted to shut it down and move on...

    My biggest regret is if I mislead any members here over the whole thing.


  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 2,227
    In a perfect world, here’s what I’d like to see happen.

    With the Carver Corporation and Skip at audio thesis agreeing on this of course.
    Carver Corporation sends Skip a Carver Crimson 275 amplifier.

    Skip keeps it for a week, uses the product, writes a review and then ships it to another Polk Audio forum member. The participating members are at Skip’s discretion.

    They next 8 people do the same thing, listen, review and send to the next person with the last person sending the amplifier back to Carver.

    All completed reviews posted here.

    Mandates being the people reviewing the amplifier be as unbiased as humanly possible regardless how the current and past threads on the amplifier have went.

    Also, and not wanting to step on Hardy’s toes but NO taking apart the amplifier to see how things work. :D

    I get it Doc, you’re a “how does it work” science guy which I do appreciate to the highest level but we’d be only reviewing how it sounds.

    Folks, I understand I partially created this can of worms, which was never my intention.

    I'd just like to see this ordeal have a positive outcome.

  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,125
    tonyb wrote: »
    I dunno John, I would think most Audio companies have a story behind them that reads like a day time soap opera filled with drama. Why Carver seems to be the "general Hospital" of audio soap opera still baffles me.

    Not the magnitude of this cluster. WTF.
    tonyb wrote: »
    I think, and just my opinion here, that if Bob himself got out in front of more people, it might go a long way in normalizing the drama.

    The train has left the station and appears to be heading off the tracks rather quickly...no reigning it in now.

    Oldrocker you did nothing wrong. It's the arrogance and dismissiveness of "Frank" that is the entire heart of the issue. I don't believe a word of his BS.

    H9

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,582

    For the record: I am quite interested in how it sounds, too! I just wasn't $2500 interested, I decided :)
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,582
    oldrocker wrote: »
    ...

    My biggest regret is if I mislead any members here over the whole thing.


    I don't think you have any culpability on that front at all, FWIW.
  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 2,227
    Hello Monoprice, time to dip my toes.

    FULL DISCLOSURE: That was ONLY an ill fated attempt at a joke... :#
  • vcwatkinsvcwatkins Posts: 1,939
    Gotcha, thanks @oldrocker .
    Den: Rega RP6 * AT33PTGII * Budgie SUT * Jolida jd9 * Roon (Sonic Transporter) * PS Audio DirectStream Jr. * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Sunfire Signature II * PSAudio PP3 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2
    Study: Roon * Sonore UltraRendu (LPS-1, WW Plat7, Iso Regen, Lush) * ProJect Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * PSA Dectet * DH Labs Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354
    Studio: SBTouch * Marantz 2270 * Polk CRS+(4.1tl)
    Beach: Music Hall MMF5.1se * Speed Box II * DL103r * Lounge Copla/LCRIII * Sonore microRendu * Schiit Yggdrasil * Belles 20a Pre * Pass Aleph 30 / First Watt F5 Clone * PSA Dectet * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl
    Beach Den: Dayens Menuetto * Fostex BK-12m Folded Horn / KEF LS50 / Dynaudio Audience 50 / Revel M22
    Beach Study: LG v30 phone * Schiit Aegir * Zu Omen Dirty W/end
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,582
    oldrocker wrote: »
    Hello Monoprice, time to dip my toes.

    FULL DISCLOSURE: That was ONLY an ill fated attempt at a joke... :#

    careful what you wish for...

    8o3t7xzf8ium.png

    That thing's sittin' not 20 feet from me as I type this... and I've got boxes and scissors and tape and I know how to use 'em.

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,892
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    For the record: I am quite interested in how it sounds, too! I just wasn't $2500 interested, I decided :)

    And even less interested at 2750.00 :p
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,648
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    oldrocker wrote: »
    Hello Monoprice, time to dip my toes.

    FULL DISCLOSURE: That was ONLY an ill fated attempt at a joke... :#

    careful what you wish for...

    8o3t7xzf8ium.png

    That thing's sittin' not 20 feet from me as I type this... and I've got boxes and scissors and tape and I know how to use 'em.

    Is that the recommended safe distance stated in the manual ? Love the fire orange glow....kinda appropriate dontcha think ?
    HT SYSTEM-
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    Tad 803 speakers
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,582
    I have time to run to the nearest exit...
  • halohalo Posts: 5,279
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I have time to run to the nearest exit...

    Get a good set of ove gloves and throw it out the window instead. It's not worth risking the house and all that cool vintage gear you've managed to hoard stockpile gather over the years

    7109gngC%2BDL._SL1019_.jpg
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,582
    ... but we digress.

    B)
  • MagnaryderMagnaryder Posts: 16
    FMalitz wrote: »
    Magnaryder wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    For the record: I am still looking for a third party 'review' -- a formal review with measurements would be nice, but a long-term assessment by a purchaser (ideally not one of that first 50 'fanatics') would be fine.

    Pictures of the innards would be nice to see, too.

    There is just so little chatter about these, two months after the sale, to be found on the internet... it's curious.


    As one of the (fanatics) I can’t decide if I should be offended, or not. Is my evaluation of less value because Im one of the privileged few who built the 275 under the tutelage of the Master?

    ray

    Ray, I'm a Gibson guitar fanatic. I'm a Fender guitar fanatic. I'm Fender amplifier fanatic. I've played Chicago blues for 50 years and I'm a fanatic about that. Coming from my heart, with my traditional Outlook, referring to Bob's fan base is fanatics is a deep complement. You sir, have my respect and my appreciation.
    Frank
    FMalitz wrote: »
    Magnaryder wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    For the record: I am still looking for a third party 'review' -- a formal review with measurements would be nice, but a long-term assessment by a purchaser (ideally not one of that first 50 'fanatics') would be fine.

    Pictures of the innards would be nice to see, too.

    There is just so little chatter about these, two months after the sale, to be found on the internet... it's curious.


    As one of the (fanatics) I can’t decide if I should be offended, or not. Is my evaluation of less value because Im one of the privileged few who built the 275 under the tutelage of the Master?

    ray

    Ray, I'm a Gibson guitar fanatic. I'm a Fender guitar fanatic. I'm Fender amplifier fanatic. I've played Chicago blues for 50 years and I'm a fanatic about that. Coming from my heart, with my traditional Outlook, referring to Bob's fan base is fanatics is a deep complement. You sir, have my respect and my appreciation.
    Frank

    Ray Campbell
    Bucyrus, Ohio
    Carver Research Lightstar.....words fail me
  • MagnaryderMagnaryder Posts: 16
    Frank, we actually met last year at Axpona. Sherry and I stopped by your room on several occasions hoping to listen to the amp before building it at CarverFest. It was SRO each time we came by. I hope to see you again this year, Jim mentioned you’ll be there with Jordan. Folks interested in listening to the amp will be able to do so there.

    ray
    Ray Campbell
    Bucyrus, Ohio
    Carver Research Lightstar.....words fail me
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,648
    Good info, I'll make sure I stop by to get an ear on it.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • stretchlstretchl Posts: 1,299
    FMalitz wrote: »
    I sure get beat up a lot on this forum.

    Not referencing this particular thread or the current debate, but sadly, it goes with the territory here.
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'
    - Isaac Asimov

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