705's whether to amp?

pawelmwopawelmwo Posts: 60
Greetings. New to Polk and dove in on a holiday sale and might have bit off more than I can chew. I'm also new to high end audio so please bear with me. I've replaced my old AVR with a HDMI Denon AVR-X4400h. I picked up the 705 towers and 706c center. I'm starting to slowly build my HT.

I'm reading everyone recommending external amplification with these speakers. I've plugged the numbers into the Peak SPL calculator below. If the speakers are rated for 88dB with 20 watt min 250 watt max. The receiver seems to be able to achieve 105 dB at 13 feet with 3 speakers plugged into the calculator. So would it be overkill to run these on an external amp? I've considered adding a Emotiva XPA-3 to help drive the Left, Center and Right channels. I do plan to add a subwoofer and surrounds later. What sound characteristics if any would I be missing not using amplification?

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html
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Comments

  • I recently purchased the exact same combination of speakers and AVR that you have and have discussed this matter briefly in a thread I created so I'll link you to that as it may helpful.

    https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/184685/lsim-center-channel-and-front-stage-advice-needed#latest

    I can't really comment on the sound characteristics, but the difference between 3 speakers @ 125w (x4400h) and 3 speakers @ 275w (XPA3) on that calculator is 3.4dB so you're not gonna blow your windows out.

    The main reason I am considering an external amp for my LCR speakers is that it will leave more power available to other speakers connected to the AVR and allow me to take full advantage of the processing power of the x4400h. The Denon x4400h only has a 710w power supply so connecting 7 or 9 speakers will cause the speakers to see FAR less than the 125w Denon claims. Not to mention, if you're using the AVRs bi-amping assignment for the 705s that only leaves you with the capability of 7.1 without an external amp.

    So being "overkill" kinda depends really. Do you like the way the speakers sound now? What volume are you currently listening to movies and music at? And finally, do you see yourself wanting to expand past 7.1 in the future?
    TV: Samsung 55HU9000
    AVR: Denon X4400h
    Mains: LSiM 705
    Center: LSiM 706c
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 20,433
    An amp of suitable power and current will really wake up those speakers. Search for 250w or better from Parasound, Sunfire, Pass, or another make and be prepared to be shocked at how good sound can be.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • pawelmwopawelmwo Posts: 60
    I recently purchased the exact same combination of speakers and AVR that you have and have discussed this matter briefly in a thread I created so I'll link you to that as it may helpful.

    https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/184685/lsim-center-channel-and-front-stage-advice-needed#latest

    I can't really comment on the sound characteristics, but the difference between 3 speakers @ 125w (x4400h) and 3 speakers @ 275w (XPA3) on that calculator is 3.4dB so you're not gonna blow your windows out.

    The main reason I am considering an external amp for my LCR speakers is that it will leave more power available to other speakers connected to the AVR and allow me to take full advantage of the processing power of the x4400h. The Denon x4400h only has a 710w power supply so connecting 7 or 9 speakers will cause the speakers to see FAR less than the 125w Denon claims. Not to mention, if you're using the AVRs bi-amping assignment for the 705s that only leaves you with the capability of 7.1 without an external amp.

    So being "overkill" kinda depends really. Do you like the way the speakers sound now? What volume are you currently listening to movies and music at? And finally, do you see yourself wanting to expand past 7.1 in the future?

    The speakers are still in the mail. Doing due diligence research before they arrive. Got in on the $999 deal from Adorama for the holidays. I already have the receiver and it is fantastic. I see what you are saying and before I add surrounds I want to get approval to move forward :)
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 20,433
    An AVR will work, BUT it will not be capable of driving the LSiM 705's to achieve their full potential.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 20,433
    edited January 2
    I recently purchased the exact same combination of speakers and AVR that you have and have discussed this matter briefly in a thread I created so I'll link you to that as it may helpful.

    https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/184685/lsim-center-channel-and-front-stage-advice-needed#latest

    I can't really comment on the sound characteristics, but the difference between 3 speakers @ 125w (x4400h) and 3 speakers @ 275w (XPA3) on that calculator is 3.4dB so you're not gonna blow your windows out.

    The main reason I am considering an external amp for my LCR speakers is that it will leave more power available to other speakers connected to the AVR and allow me to take full advantage of the processing power of the x4400h. The Denon x4400h only has a 710w power supply so connecting 7 or 9 speakers will cause the speakers to see FAR less than the 125w Denon claims. Not to mention, if you're using the AVRs bi-amping assignment for the 705s that only leaves you with the capability of 7.1 without an external amp.

    So being "overkill" kinda depends really. Do you like the way the speakers sound now? What volume are you currently listening to movies and music at? And finally, do you see yourself wanting to expand past 7.1 in the future?

    Your moniker seems to be a good fit. ;) :p


    Your Denon does not put out 710w... It's transformer is too small to be able to back up what the manufacturer claims. A separate amp, even if it is of a similar power rating as the AVR into two channels, will sound vastly improved over what your Denon delivers.

    https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9a60c-denon-poa-1500-vu-meters-solid-state

    To keep things in the Denon family, the amp above would have your ears believing you just bought new speakers. The performance of the 705's would be on an entirely other level from what you are getting out of the AVR.

    The same would apply for this amp...
    https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis99e3d-parasound-halo-a-23-stereo-power-amplifier-a23-15162-solid-state

    Bottom line... It's not about watts, It is about the amplifiers ability to provide the CURRENT your speaker needs instantaneously on demand, and the ability to exert control over the speaker in such a way that the sound you hear is as close to what was recorded as possible. The small power supplies and the smaller power capacitors contained within an AVR will inherently fall short every single time.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 41,798
    I'm going to present an opposite point of view. HT isn't anywhere near as demanding as 2 channel music. Therefore, I believe your AVR will drive your soon to be LSi's quite well for the intended use.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 20,433
    F1nut wrote: »
    I'm going to present an opposite point of view. HT isn't anywhere near as demanding as 2 channel music. Therefore, I believe your AVR will drive your soon to be LSi's quite well for the intended use.

    In my setup, I have found the opposite to be true. Movie soundtracks, especially those with lots of music or orchestral scores tend to perform better with a separate amp. True that most of the film's dialog comes from the center channel, but your two main speakers up front could use the extra power as well. In films with heavy special effects as well as strong scores, your center and surrounds will be competing for what little you receiver can deliver. By freeing your AVR of the burden of providing power to a set of hungry towers, you will improve it's ability to take care of the rest.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • cfrizzcfrizz Posts: 13,325
    It isn't about volume, it's about the speakers having the power they need to be crystal clear with music, dialog, and instruments. The three front speakers are utilized the most and should have all the power they need to operate to their full potential whether playing music or movies.

    That is what a powerful amp brings to the table, since all it has to do is power the speakers.

    So take your time and when funds allow get at least a three channel amp of at least 200wpc.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 ch. 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony Bravia KDL-40R510C TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, SVS NSD-12 SB12 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 41,798
    I guess my Pioneer Elite AVR is better than most. In fact, I know it is.

    Anyway, the LSiM speakers the OP will have are not a demanding load, so I suggest he try them with his AVR first before spending money he may not need to.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 20,433
    Based on what I see on the specs page, you will need to beef up the mains...


    https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/receivers/avrx4400H

    105wpc @8 ohms, two channels driven, As Jesse has stated, you may not need it, but with a power rating like that, I would not try to pretend I am in a movie theater any time soon. You will do more damage to an underpowered speaker that an over-powered one.

    Get an amp.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • ken brydsonken brydson Posts: 7,418
    Based on what I see on the specs page, you will need to beef up the mains...


    https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/receivers/avrx4400H

    105wpc @8 ohms, two channels driven, As Jesse has stated, you may not need it, but with a power rating like that, I would not try to pretend I am in a movie theater any time soon. You will do more damage to an underpowered speaker that an over-powered one.

    Get an amp.

    Crossed over with a capable sub and he'll be fine until the upgrade itch hits. JMHO...
    HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer SC-1222k AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One

    Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Denon 2910, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's/ RTA8t
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 20,433
    … but don't push it too hard.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • pawelmwopawelmwo Posts: 60
    Based on what I see on the specs page, you will need to beef up the mains...


    https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/receivers/avrx4400H

    105wpc @8 ohms, two channels driven, As Jesse has stated, you may not need it, but with a power rating like that, I would not try to pretend I am in a movie theater any time soon. You will do more damage to an underpowered speaker that an over-powered one.

    Get an amp.

    It lists both 125 and 105, which is the one to look at?

    Power Output (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.08% 2ch Drive)105 W
    Power Output (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.05% 2ch Drive)125 W
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 20,433
    I would take the lower of the two ratings. Receivers are notorious for being over-rated.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”

  • Your moniker seems to be a good fit. ;) :p


    Your Denon does not put out 710w... It's transformer is too small to be able to back up what the manufacturer claims. A separate amp, even if it is of a similar power rating as the AVR into two channels, will sound vastly improved over what your Denon delivers.

    https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9a60c-denon-poa-1500-vu-meters-solid-state

    To keep things in the Denon family, the amp above would have your ears believing you just bought new speakers. The performance of the 705's would be on an entirely other level from what you are getting out of the AVR.

    The same would apply for this amp...
    https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis99e3d-parasound-halo-a-23-stereo-power-amplifier-a23-15162-solid-state

    Bottom line... It's not about watts, It is about the amplifiers ability to provide the CURRENT your speaker needs instantaneously on demand, and the ability to exert control over the speaker in such a way that the sound you hear is as close to what was recorded as possible. The small power supplies and the smaller power capacitors contained within an AVR will inherently fall short every single time.

    I'm well aware of how manufacturers have a tendency to claim more than what their products are capable of. My point was that EVEN IF the x4400h had that much wattage, it still may not be what his setup needs. I only mentioned wattage rather than providing more detail because it's the most relatable to people who are new and as it is the most marketed specification and the OP stated their lack of experience.
    TV: Samsung 55HU9000
    AVR: Denon X4400h
    Mains: LSiM 705
    Center: LSiM 706c
  • pawelmwopawelmwo Posts: 60
    cfrizz wrote: »
    It isn't about volume, it's about the speakers having the power they need to be crystal clear with music, dialog, and instruments. The three front speakers are utilized the most and should have all the power they need to operate to their full potential whether playing music or movies.

    That is what a powerful amp brings to the table, since all it has to do is power the speakers.

    So take your time and when funds allow get at least a three channel amp of at least 200wpc.

    When the time is right what is a sensible affordable solution to strive for? The two I had in mind Outlaw 2200 monoblocks for LCR or Emotiva XPA-3 Gen 3.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 20,433
    You only need to amp the mains and let the receiver handle the rest. Rotel, Parasound, Sunfire, are all names that come to mind. Don’t be afraid to consider a gently pre-owned amp, as you can get far more for your money that way.

    The only gear I have that was purchased new is my Oppo UDP-205. The rest I either built myself or bought used.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 4,979
    F1nut wrote: »
    I guess my Pioneer Elite AVR is better than most. In fact, I know it is.

    Anyway, the LSiM speakers the OP will have are not a demanding load, so I suggest he try them with his AVR first before spending money he may not need to.

    The Denon X4400 is a pretty capable receiver, especially if you're only running 3-5 channels. With the current 3-speaker load, I'd also start without an amp. It'll do 7-9 all right, too, if all the surrounds are fairly easy to drive. Don't expect to drive additional tower speakers for surrounds (which is never something I suggest anyhow, for HT).

    Look at it this way - without an amp, you'll get standard performance, which will suit most people. Adding an amp will boost performance, but not everyone will notice or appreciate it.
  • cfrizzcfrizz Posts: 13,325
    pawelmwo wrote: »
    cfrizz wrote: »
    It isn't about volume, it's about the speakers having the power they need to be crystal clear with music, dialog, and instruments. The three front speakers are utilized the most and should have all the power they need to operate to their full potential whether playing music or movies.

    That is what a powerful amp brings to the table, since all it has to do is power the speakers.

    So take your time and when funds allow get at least a three channel amp of at least 200wpc.

    When the time is right what is a sensible affordable solution to strive for? The two I had in mind Outlaw 2200 monoblocks for LCR or Emotiva XPA-3 Gen 3.

    Both companies make good products, for practicality and space I would get the XPA, that way you only need 1 outlet rather than 3.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 ch. 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony Bravia KDL-40R510C TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, SVS NSD-12 SB12 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 1,882
    Hmm, I'll chime in my two cents

    I own a X4400H, I also own an XPA3-G3. Both are nice pieces of gear.

    When I first got my X4400H I was listening to some music with the house to myself. I started to think of how it would sound without the amp (BasX-A300 at the time 150wX2). I plugged the speakers directly into the AVR ran Audyssey put the same CD on and ...... gross was my first thought. I ran audyssey again went through settings and still gross. It didn't sound bad but it was lacking openness and clarity. I even did 2ch with no sub in full range same thing. I hooked the amp back in ran Audyssey and yes back to good sound. It wasn't bad to the point of not wanting to listen. More like sounds good but... Everything sounds so much nicer with an amp even at lower volume. An amp will make a good recording sound great, a bad recording will sound worse.

    Adding an amp depends on the budget for which amp to get. I have an Emotiva. nice amp with great clear warm sound.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, Sony DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk Signature S60
    Center: Polk CSi-A6
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Sony KDF-E42A10,
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES
    4 Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • pawelmwopawelmwo Posts: 60
    edited January 3
    mrloren wrote: »
    Hmm, I'll chime in my two cents

    I own a X4400H, I also own an XPA3-G3. Both are nice pieces of gear.

    When I first got my X4400H I was listening to some music with the house to myself. I started to think of how it would sound without the amp (BasX-A300 at the time 150wX2). I plugged the speakers directly into the AVR ran Audyssey put the same CD on and ...... gross was my first thought. I ran audyssey again went through settings and still gross. It didn't sound bad but it was lacking openness and clarity. I even did 2ch with no sub in full range same thing. I hooked the amp back in ran Audyssey and yes back to good sound. It wasn't bad to the point of not wanting to listen. More like sounds good but... Everything sounds so much nicer with an amp even at lower volume. An amp will make a good recording sound great, a bad recording will sound worse.

    Adding an amp depends on the budget for which amp to get. I have an Emotiva. nice amp with great clear warm sound.

    Have you attempted to turn off Audyssey? I’ve ran it with mixed results it made my existing satellites sound overly bright along with differing crossover frequencies. I’ve turned the eq off but left the speaker distances in, set the crossover manually and pulled out a sound meter and tweaked the channels to 75db at 0 and it sounds fine again. I’ve read that I’m not the only one with such results for what it’s worth. I am new to this receiver but this has been my experience thus far.

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 41,798
    Pawelmwo, do you plan on using this rig for HT only or is a dual purpose rig to include 2 channel music?

    IMO, Audyssey and Yamaha's YPAO leave a lot to be desired compared to Pioneer's MCACC. Still all of them should only be used to set a base line with final tuning with an SPL meter and your ears.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • pawelmwopawelmwo Posts: 60
    F1nut wrote: »
    Pawelmwo, do you plan on using this rig for HT only or is a dual purpose rig to include 2 channel music?

    IMO, Audyssey and Yamaha's YPAO leave a lot to be desired compared to Pioneer's MCACC. Still all of them should only be used to set a base line with final tuning with an SPL meter and your ears.

    Yes hopefully dual purpose, including adding a turntable. I envision using a three channel amp for LCR in the future once I add more channels for surrounds. Likely budget around $1000 or less.

  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 1,882
    Music I go direct no Audyssey there. Movies it's on.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, Sony DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk Signature S60
    Center: Polk CSi-A6
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Sony KDF-E42A10,
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES
    4 Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 41,798
    pawelmwo wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Pawelmwo, do you plan on using this rig for HT only or is a dual purpose rig to include 2 channel music?

    IMO, Audyssey and Yamaha's YPAO leave a lot to be desired compared to Pioneer's MCACC. Still all of them should only be used to set a base line with final tuning with an SPL meter and your ears.

    Yes hopefully dual purpose, including adding a turntable. I envision using a three channel amp for LCR in the future once I add more channels for surrounds. Likely budget around $1000 or less.

    Good luck.

    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • spongersponger Posts: 325
    Someone in another LSiM thread posted a review with measurements which showed that the LSiM's resistance is on average 5 ohms. It dipped down to 2 ohms or something at 66hz. So, a budget amp like an Outlaw 5000 with its rated 180wpc at 4 ohms would probably run somewhere close to that level when driving those towers. Capacitance is like 3X the x4400h. It also has a toroidal transformer and discrete channels unlike that avr. If you can't spend the cash on a 200+wpc amp like the XPA series, then those towers will still perform more dynamically if not more safely (ie no blown tweeters, etc.) with a $650 five channel like the Outlaw when compared to the avr. But I think if you're in a small room and you don't habitually turn it up deafeningly loud the x4400h could also be all you need.
    Denon AVR 3312CI
    S15
    Sony 790S
    Denon DP 300f
  • pawelmwopawelmwo Posts: 60
    Would something like an older EMOTIVA XPA-5 GEN 2 fit the bill? It's 5 channel but considerably cheaper second hand.

    - 200 watts per channel; all channels driven; into 8 Ohms
  • cfrizzcfrizz Posts: 13,325
    Absolutely!!! Grab it while you can!!!
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 ch. 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony Bravia KDL-40R510C TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, SVS NSD-12 SB12 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 2,754
    Just to echo some sentiments here, when I added external amps to my set up, the AVR was able to push the center and surrounds much better
    So not only did I get much more power to my mains, but the whole experience for home theater was increased.
    I ran Audyssey and did not like the way it sounded. So I took the measurements and wrote down the distances and plugged those in manually to the receiver while keeping all other equalizer settings default.
    SPEAKERS - ELAC ADANTE AF-61, TOTEM RAINMAKER, SONUS FABER SOLO, DEFINITIVE TECH SM350, MIRAGE OASIS, SONOS PLAY 5 & 1'S, SVS SB16 ULTRA

    POWER - PS AUDIO M700, LINN LK240, MARANTZ SR5013

    PRE/DACS - PS AUDIO STELLAR GAIN, CAMBRIDGE AUDIO CXN V2

    SOURCE - DENON 2910, SONY CDX355, JVC XM448, REGA P2 (MODDED) ANIA CART, REGA FONO MC, XBOX 1 S, TIVO BOLT

    POWER/WIRES - AQ NIAGARA 5000, AQ HURRICANE HC (2M), AQ MONSOON HC (2M) , AQ COLORADO XLR (2M & 1M) AND RCAs(1M), AQ VICTORIA(1M), ACOUSTIC ZEN SATORI W JUMPERS(3M), ATLAS EOS PC, WW STRATUS X3/AURORA X1 PC, AQ CARBON HDMIs

    MISC- OKKI NOKKI RCM, HARMONY ELITE, SONY 75XBR900E
  • pawelmwopawelmwo Posts: 60
    joecoulson wrote: »
    Just to echo some sentiments here, when I added external amps to my set up, the AVR was able to push the center and surrounds much better
    So not only did I get much more power to my mains, but the whole experience for home theater was increased.
    I ran Audyssey and did not like the way it sounded. So I took the measurements and wrote down the distances and plugged those in manually to the receiver while keeping all other equalizer settings default.

    For what it’s worth I had an amazing opportunity and picked up a pair of used Outlaw 2200’s monoblock amps. It does 200 watt RMS. I only connected the 706c center and immediately noticed a change to the range coming out of the 705s when using all 3 channels. I had a feeling like playing stereo provided a more impactful listening experience which had more headroom. Now after adding amplification to just the center I’m experiencing the same type of details from movies. It would appear that the receiver does fine driving two speakers but goes downhill after adding the center. I haven’t even run Audyssey yet. I am a believer now.
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