LSiM center channel and front stage advice needed

SuperStoopid

I recently started my home theater system with a Denon x4400h and a pair of RTI A7s. I was within return period for the A7s when I found a deal on LSiM 705s for just a little more. I’m quite impressed with the LSiM and am definitely wanting to continue with the line for the rest of my system. While I don’t have the finances to do the entire system all at once, I am looking to take advantage of the sale on LSiMs a bit more and get a center channel as well and finish out the front stage.

The issue I’m having is deciding on either the 704 and 706. I’ve tried to do my due diligence on the site before posting and I’ve read the 706 seems to be the consensus but primarily for the “bigger is better” reason. I’ve not seen many comments on the sonic matching of the center to the fronts.

So my questions are, should matching the center to the fronts (choosing the 704c to match the 705s in my case) more important? Or is it more about getting the speaker that’s more appropriate for your viewing/listening habits and room size? OR is the 706c really just a more sonically pleasing speaker?

I’m currently leaning a bit towards the 704c because the money I would save on it would allow me to purchase an amp for the 705s at the same time to get them the power they deserve. Additionally I feel as if my reciever may not powerful enough to properly drive the 706c on its own so I would also need to look at a 3 channel amp (rather than a 2 channel) to provide the power for my speakers in the future if I choose the 706c.

I don’t have a problem with saving up for a nice 3 channel amp like an XPA-3 as I fully understand building a home theater is a process. But if the 704c is a better match to my 705s, finishing out the front stage by getting a center and amping my 705s and being able to move on to other aspects of building my system would be nice.

mpitogo

Welcome to the Polk Audio forum. The difference between the 704c and 706c are the mid bass drivers. If you have the room go for the larger. I’ve always found that the larger center complements dialog very well. In my own application, I couldn’t live with the LSiC (previous gen center to go with the LSi25). It sounded small and muffled. There are crossover kits I recently discovered from VR3 mods but I already opted to go with the large Martin Logan Motion 50xt. It is quite a bit louder with better sensitivity but Audyssey fixed that with level matching. I have no issues on the mismatch most of what I hear watching movies is from the center and subs, the left right, surrounds and height only come into play with sound panning around and for me there isn’t a discernible difference.

In HT, the center next to the subs, is the most important speaker. The Denon should power the LSiM center line quite well. If your HT is dual purpose and you do a good amount of music then a separate amp for the 705 is recommended to get the most out of the 705s but in HT it’s not essential.

rooftop59

What’s the room size? And do you currently have or plan on getting a good sub? I ran a 704 in a good sized master bedroom for a while with 703s and a sub and it is a darn good center channel, better than the LSiC by a ways. With a good sub in a small to medium sized room you will might just be very satisfied with the 704 fwiw...

rpf65

Welcome.

Funny thing about audio is that a lot of times you won’t hear something until I t is no longer there.

Personally like you, and many others, I also have a budget. Originally I was running the RTI A series up front using the smaller center channel. Rather than upgrading the center, I upgraded the AVR, and was happy with that improvement. As I never heard the CSI A6, I wasn’t really worried about the improvement it would have brought into the mix..

Changed the front three to the LSI M(705/706c) speakers, and ran them for about 6 months with the AVR. Changed them for music considerations, was quit happy with the RTI’s for HT. When I added the amp, I knew what I was missing.

Point being, if your happy with the 705’s, whichever center you choose will compliment the front two. If you choose the smaller center you won’t know how much, if any, the larger center will add to your set-up.

As far as sonic differences go, depends on what your referring to. If your talking about one blending in better with the 705’s, both are timbre matched so no difference. If your talking about one sounding louder than the other, spl, no real difference. If there is something else that would influence your choice, please ask.

Other than that, I would strongly advise a three channel amp for whichever center you decide on. Not only will it take a load off your AVR, it will sound better. Easy enough to check this on your own, if your buying new and there is a good return policy.

Buy a three channel amp, calibrate it using all three channels, and watch a movie. Unplug the center interconnects, both amp and AVR, re-run calibration program, and watch a movie. Then you will hear what was missing.

SuperStoopid

First, thank you guys for the welcome and the quick responses!

mpitogo wrote: »

If your HT is dual purpose and you do a good amount of music then a separate amp for the 705 is recommended to get the most out of the 705s but in HT it’s not essential.

Until I move into a house with a dedicated theater room, my HT will be dual purpose as I am a HEAVY music listener so I definitely plan on getting an amp.

rooftop59 wrote: »

What’s the room size? And do you currently have or plan on getting a good sub? I ran a 704 in a good sized master bedroom for a while with 703s and a sub and it is a darn good center channel, better than the LSiC by a ways. With a good sub in a small to medium sized room you will might just be very satisfied with the 704 fwiw...

My living room is 23w by 17d and I am planning on getting a either an SVS PB-2000/3000 or a HSU VTF-2/3 MK5 but am leaning towards the SVS. I will be moving in the next year or so to a bigger house so I'm considering buying big and turning down to match the room if needed.

rpf65 wrote: »

Welcome.

Funny thing about audio is that a lot of times you won’t hear something until I t is no longer there.

Personally like you, and many others, I also have a budget. Originally I was running the RTI A series up front using the smaller center channel. Rather than upgrading the center, I upgraded the AVR, and was happy with that improvement. As I never heard the CSI A6, I wasn’t really worried about the improvement it would have brought into the mix..

Changed the front three to the LSI M(705/706c) speakers, and ran them for about 6 months with the AVR. Changed them for music considerations, was quit happy with the RTI’s for HT. When I added the amp, I knew what I was missing.

Other than that, I would strongly advise a three channel amp for whichever center you decide on. Not only will it take a load off your AVR, it will sound better. Easy enough to check this on your own, if your buying new and there is a good return policy.

Buy a three channel amp, calibrate it using all three channels, and watch a movie. Unplug the center interconnects, both amp and AVR, re-run calibration program, and watch a movie. Then you will hear what was missing.

It sounds like I'm headed towards a similar experience to yours. If I were to purchase the 706c, I had a few options in mind. I know that Crown Audio amps are kind of a hit and miss here, but they're so inexpensive, I figure it couldn't hurt to at least try one out. Being budget minded, I had a few options I was considering for amping the 705/706c front stage.

Option 1: Crown Audio XLS 1002/1502 for 705s, Outlaw 2200 for 706c.
Option 2: 3x Outlaw 2200
Option 3: XPA-3 Gen3

Obviously the options are arranged in order of pricing as well (although I think 3x Outlaws is just slightly more than the XPA3). Is mismatching amps like in the first option generally considered bad practice? I would really like to try the Crown Audio and if I end up feeling it is lacking for the 705s, I can just sell it or use it as an amp for a second zone in the kitchen with a pair of 703s or something.

cfrizz

Welcome to Club Polk.

You are putting together a great system with Polks top of the line speakers, don't short change yourself because of budget.

If budget a problem, then be patient continue to save money and get what is needed. For me that would be option 3. As for the center channel if you have room for the 706, get that.

You can keep these speakers for years, and a well made amp can be used in any system. Try to do it right the first time around rather than cheap out and end up trying to sell what isn't working, and rebuying what you should have gotten the first time around.

rpf65

Keep in mind, amps produce heat and need to have adequate clearance in order for them to keep cool. Running 3 mono amps need quite a bit of additional space as compared to a single 3-channel amp.

Airplay355

I have a 1502 on sub duty but have hooked it up to my mains for fun. I would recommend against using it to power your mains as the noise floor is quite a bit higher than amps made specifically for music. White noise is pretty audible From my listening position. It’s a great amp though.

mrloren

I have an XPA3 G3 and like it a lot, does't get warm at all even after 8 hours of rocking it.

When I was amp hunting I was looking for a good used Parasound A31, nope nothing under $2K. I looked at the monoblocks and Outlaw 5000.

I went with the XPA and glad I did. I find it very musical and great for HT.

For the center get the 706 if you can and have the room.

SuperStoopid

Well guys, I ended up going with the 706c. I have maybe 15 hours on my 705s and after they and the new 706c gets a good amount play time then I'll revisit the the amplification prospects.

Thank you for the input!

honestaquarian

https://oppodigital.com/hra/dsd-by-davidelias.aspx
Download the multichannel DSD mix of Crossing Morning light Western Town to see the benefit of having a large center channel.

sponger

If you're more about music then you might end up preferring Auro 2D over Dolby or DTS-X since we're talking about multi-channel music. The Auro codecs put more of the audio in the front stage and away from the center. In the X4400h, Auro 3D defaults to 2D if you don't have the required channels for immersive sound hooked up.

I don't know how much you paid for that AVR, but crutchfield still has the X6400h for $1500. That is a far better avr even though the peanut gallery likes to point out that they are visually identical in terms of layout. Disregard that. The 6400 is made in Japan, has better heat dissipation, and has dialog expander as opposed to center channel boost found in the 4400.

If like most people you crossed the center at 100hz or somewhere thereabouts, I personally don't understand the need for a 706 over the 704. I'm sure it sounds fantastic though. Congratulations on some very nice speakers.

afterburnt

The best center for your 705's is another 705.

SuperStoopid

sponger wrote: »

I don't know how much you paid for that AVR, but crutchfield still has the X6400h for $1500. That is a far better avr even though the peanut gallery likes to point out that they are visually identical in terms of layout. Disregard that. The 6400 is made in Japan, has better heat dissipation, and has dialog expander as opposed to center channel boost found in the 4400.

I saw that price on Crutchfield for the x6400h and had considered it, but I got my x4400h for $800 and the difference between that and the x6400h would be 70% of what I paid for my 705s and I was just trying to adhere to a lower budget.

I'll eventually have a dedicated HT room and I will probably pick up a new receiver for that and keep the x4400h for multi zone music in the living room, kitchen and office.

sponger

I definitely think you made the right choice. For $800 the 4400 is a steal. I know from experience that it goes great with the LSiM. I know its user interface inside and out. It runs hot, but it's a great avr.

But it looked like you were throwing around the idea of amps, so I thought you had the extra cash handy. The 6400 is an entirely different class of avr. And, earlier I confused the 4400's amp section layout with the 6400 when it's really the Marantz sr7012 I was thinking of. The 6400 has discrete amp channels, monolithic layout and a superior heatsink. It doesn't run hot. It's blasphemy on this forum to rank the avr over amps, but I'm going to say it's so much of a better source unit compared to the 4400 that it's worth giving up the amps to cover the difference in cost. It's just mind-boggling how much of a difference there is in quality of construction when comparing the Japanese made Denons to the ones made in Vietnam. Of course, that is no knock on the Vietnamese manufacturing machine. I have nothing but admiration and respect for it, actually.

Just out of curiosity, what did audyssey set the channel levels to? Did you do the $20 upgrade to Mult EQ editor?

SuperStoopid

It set the left speaker to +1 and the right to +0.5 but that's likely because I currently have a weird Ikea tv stand that has cubbies on the left side of the TV making the left front slightly further away from the primary listening position (7.8' vs 7.5').

I do have the extra money but I just wanted to save now and get speakers. The 4400 will always be in the living room and I didn't think the price jump was warranted in that situation.

shs

Sounds like my input is a bit too late, but if you really want to timbre match a center channel speaker with the 705s, either get another 705, or do as I did and use a 703 for the center. Three vertical speakers across the front in the best sonically. If you have the room for it of, course.

SuperStoopid

shs wrote: »

Sounds like my input is a bit too late, but if you really want to timbre match a center channel speaker with the 705s, either get another 705, or do as I did and use a 703 for the center. Three vertical speakers across the front in the best sonically. If you have the room for it of, course.

I would have loved to do that but I couldn't even begin to bring that up with my girlfriend. That would get shot down immediately haha.

One thing I found while reviewing specifications for the speakers is that while the 706c speaker size is matched to the 707s, it has the same two crossover points that the 705s have rather than being matched to the 707s. Not sure how important that really is, but it's something to think about.

The crossovers are as follows:

707: Tweeter/mid: 3.0khz, Mid/Midbass: 300hz
706: Tweeter/mid: 2.8khz, Mid/Midbass: 280hz
705: Tweeter/mid: 2.8khz, Mid/Midbass: 280hz
704: Tweeter/mid: 2.5khz, Mid/Midbass: 280hz