A Real SL 2000 Hack. Replace stock (burnt voice coils) with "silk diaphragm dome ".

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Comments

  • VSAT88
    VSAT88 Posts: 1,226
    Went shopping for some glue. Think I have it covered now. I have not tried any of it yet but I will post back when I do. I found all of this and much more at Hobby Lobby. They have lots of neat stuff. Even a section of model rockets ! My favorite as a child. Never recall a lunch with a recovery though.
    IMG_20150705_182231033_zps7f0y9bmv.jpg
  • VSAT88
    VSAT88 Posts: 1,226
    So far after listening to them off and on for a few days I would say at this point that I am unsure if it was really worth the effort. So far they lack any crisp sparkle that one may expect from a nice tweeter. However they are still better than no tweeter. I have heard from others and have had some limited experience myself with a break in period. I have read up to 150 hours...I guess it still remains to be seen if they will do better farther in. I will say this, I have been punishing them a bit and no failure yet..
  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    VSAT88 wrote: »
    So far after listening to them off and on for a few days I would say at this point that I am unsure if it was really worth the effort. So far they lack any crisp sparkle that one may expect from a nice tweeter. However they are still better than no tweeter. I have heard from others and have had some limited experience myself with a break in period. I have read up to 150 hours...I guess it still remains to be seen if they will do better farther in. I will say this, I have been punishing them a bit and no failure yet..
    I received my two replacement domes, but haven't had the time to install them yet.
    Your observations don't sound promising, although anything is better than the original SL2000 domes I suppose.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    Nothing ventured, etc.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
  • VSAT88
    VSAT88 Posts: 1,226
    VSAT88 wrote: »
    So far after listening to them off and on for a few days I would say at this point that I am unsure if it was really worth the effort. So far they lack any crisp sparkle that one may expect from a nice tweeter. However they are still better than no tweeter. I have heard from others and have had some limited experience myself with a break in period. I have read up to 150 hours...I guess it still remains to be seen if they will do better farther in. I will say this, I have been punishing them a bit and no failure yet..
    I received my two replacement domes, but haven't had the time to install them yet.
    Your observations don't sound promising, although anything is better than the original SL2000 domes I suppose.
    Cant wait to see what you have to say after you do yours !
  • VSAT88
    VSAT88 Posts: 1,226
    drumminman wrote: »
    Nothing ventured, etc.
    Exactly !!

  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    I did note there's more membrane than silk. You can see through it. Not a true Silk Dome. I ordered another type, that's densely woven, see how they compare.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
  • VSAT88
    VSAT88 Posts: 1,226
    I did note there's more membrane than silk. You can see through it. Not a true Silk Dome. I ordered another type, that's densely woven, see how they compare.
    That's the reason I was wondering about glue. It seemed like a "plastic" membrane to me and very little "silk" if any...Hope we can find a good combination for the old magnet assembly and new dome. I think we are on the right track trying different combinations..

  • VSAT88
    VSAT88 Posts: 1,226
    Anyone else tried this yet ? I want to know what you all have to say about the parts you bought and the sound that came out !
  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    So I received the 2nd order of Silk Domes: http://www.ebay.com/itm/231540997837?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
    Unlike the first ones, which were more Membrane than Silk, these are all Silk, with a light, shinny sealant applied to the outside. They are dead ringers for the RDO-194/198 Domes. I've had the RDO-194/198s apart, and the underside of the dome has a rubberized coating. The replacement domes have no coating, just the plain silk.
    I took some purely static measurements for all the tweeters I have on hand.
    Peerless: 7.56 DCR, 3.14mh
    SL1000: 6.17 DCR, .646mh
    SL2000: 6.01 DCR, .504mh
    RDO-194: 6.7 DCR, .558mh
    RDO-198: 5.55 DCR, .400mh
    New Silk Dome/SL2000: 6.03 DCR, .828mh
    The Replacement Domes are similar to the SL1000/2000 DCR, but have a slightly heavier coil.
    The OPs SL2000 dome apparently came off rather easily. I was not so lucky. My sample had the glue from h e l l. I eventually had to use a sharpened, fine 1/4" wood chisel to remove it. To say it was a PITA to remove, would be an understatement. Getting the old dome off without damaging the grove in the plastic bezel required a lot of patience. Once everything was removed, the new dome fit perfectly in the grove. Since the back of the new dome was untreated silk, I used Aleen's tacky glue. Once it dried thoroughly, a began reassembly. This was also a PITA, because my sample needed alignment. It took many attempts to properly center the coil in the air gap. There was just enough play in the mounting holes on the bezel to find the center, and then tighten the hex screws. I use a pencil eraser to gently press down on the rolled edge of the new dome, listening for coil rubbing.
    I had intended to do some rudimentary measurements with my trusty Rat Shack Digital SPL Meter. Unfortunately the RS meter's tolerances are quite lax, so any measurements would have been useless. I don't have a calibrated microphone or one of the many computer programs that will generate an accurate frequency response graph. I had to rely on my 57 yo ears.
    I installed the tweeter in my left SDA-2ATL. The Right speaker has the RDO-198 Tweeter. This is an important detail, because the TL modification consists of a contour network added to the crossover. My unaltered Monitor 7s are packed away at the moment, and would have been the better choice for the listening test.
    I fired up my system, and played some familiar tracks. The image was dead center, which is good, because that means the overall SPL of the new dome is similar to the replacement RDOs. The overall sound was very good. Vocals were consistent between the two. I did note some extra "sparkle" in the treble region with certain instruments.
    This could be inherent in the new dome, or could be due to the contour networks slight rise in output as frequencies increase. I did not experience any listening fatigue over the course of the test, which is also good.
    Would I do this again? No. I would rather spend the money on the RDOs. I do plan to do a second SL2000, so I'll have a matched set I can use for some other project.
    It could be worthwhile for someone who has the skills, manual dexterity, and patience.
    The replacement domes are certainly cheap enough to save you quite a few bucks.
    My time is money however.
    aazttrw9xlpv.jpg
    scbauhyly69k.jpg
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    Nice work.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,384
    Nice job! Sometimes projects like that are fun, sometimes there not but its kind of cool to know you were able to do it.
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    Thanks drummin, and Darryl. As I said, not worth it to me, but others may want to give it a go
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    I did the second SL2000. This time it was easy peasy. The Silicone sealer on the coil wires peals off with your thumb. I cleaned up the groves with a jewelers screwdriver to remove any remaining Silicone. I then removed the plastic bezel, and hit it with a hair dryer set on hi, for about a minute. From the underside, I pushed the old dome/coil, and it pealed right off. This left the old solvent glue bead intact, and perfectly flat. I screwed the bezel back in place, and de-soldered the old coil wires with a solder sucker. Be very careful and very quick, as too much heat will melt the plastic. I used a small, fine artists brush to apply Aleen's tacky glue on top of the old solvent glue, placed the new dome in place, smoothed out the edge, then removed it. Aleen's tacky glue can be used as a contact cement. I smoothed out the glue bead on the bezel, and on the lip of the new dome. I let it set for about a minute or two, then placed the dome back in place. Alignment was easy this time around, and the tacky glue bonded enough to check for any voice coil rubbing. I smoothed the lip of the new dome several times, and applied heat from the hair dryer set on low, to speed up the drying process. This part was the most time consuming, making sure the bond was uniform, the coil stayed in alignment, and the bumps where the lead wires come out are sealed. If is do this again, I'll put a notch where the lead wire are to make it smoother. The new Dome's lead wires are much thicker than the old coil wires.
    I let it set for about an hour, then threaded the coil wires through the rivets. I used surgical clamps underneath to keep the wires taught while I soldered. I dressed the coil wires with some black glue I use for dust caps.
    I plan to dig out my unmodified Monitor 7s, and do some real listening tests comparing the new domes with the SL2000s and RDO-194s.
    rwq05no5hcg7.jpg
    ys3n993uuvqf.jpg
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    Thanks nbrowser. I wanted to dress them up a bit, so I cleaned the faces with 409 then isopropyl alcohol. Found a bottle cap that fit over the dome, and shot a few coats of Krylon Satin Black. Came out pretty nice.
    mszatua60wkl.jpg
    g92a1sesv6ok.jpg
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
  • Faustin
    Faustin Posts: 1,149
    Look great, but I am thinking you have way too much time on your hands! :D
  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,638
    Thanks nbrowser. I wanted to dress them up a bit, so I cleaned the faces with 409 then isopropyl alcohol. Found a bottle cap that fit over the dome, and shot a few coats of Krylon Satin Black. Came out pretty nice.
    mszatua60wkl.jpg
    g92a1sesv6ok.jpg
    Where did you find the paint?

  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    Faustin wrote: »
    Look great, but I am thinking you have way too much time on your hands! :D
    Just the opposite, this a diversion from the rest of my workload
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    Thanks nbrowser. I wanted to dress them up a bit, so I cleaned the faces with 409 then isopropyl alcohol. Found a bottle cap that fit over the dome, and shot a few coats of Krylon Satin Black. Came out pretty nice.
    Where did you find the paint?

    It's Krylon Satin Black. You can find it everywhere.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,638
    Thanks nbrowser. I wanted to dress them up a bit, so I cleaned the faces with 409 then isopropyl alcohol. Found a bottle cap that fit over the dome, and shot a few coats of Krylon Satin Black. Came out pretty nice.
    Where did you find the paint?

    It's Krylon Satin Black. You can find it everywhere.
    I have no response ...

  • VSAT88
    VSAT88 Posts: 1,226
    Wow, awesome. I have to try again now Westmassguy !
  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,042
    It's Krylon Satin Black. You can find it everywhere.

    http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/29186/where-to-buy-black-paint/p1
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • Faustin
    Faustin Posts: 1,149
    Thanks for the nice write up / comparison Dave. Doing things like that are time consuming.
  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,384
    Nice review and comparison of those tweeters and I'm glad you got to enjoy the 7's again and listen to some good music! You have to stop and smell the roses sometimes too, can't just work on the rose bed all the time B)
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    Faustin wrote: »
    Thanks for the nice write up / comparison Dave. Doing things like that are time consuming.
    Welcome Bruce.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    voltz wrote: »
    Nice review and comparison of those tweeters and I'm glad you got to enjoy the 7's again and listen to some good music! You have to stop and smell the roses sometimes too, can't just work on the rose bed all the time B)

    You got that right Brother. Took my mind off everything else on my plate, for a little while.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
  • VSAT88
    VSAT88 Posts: 1,226
    Made the order for the new improved "real silk" domes westmassguy. Thanks for the write up and link ! It should make my next victims easier to hack !
  • leftwinger57
    leftwinger57 Posts: 2,917
    Hey Dave I saw that you did a comparison test w/ your 7s. Mine still have the Peerless so no joy there and I replaced my silver domes on my 2Bs w/ 194s. Any comparison between the 2 sets. You guys were right all along because the way older silver domes were sounding tired, scratchy and no comparison w/ the new 194s. Also they kinda can't be called silver domes any more, because mine kinda tarnished to a gold patina. lol
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
  • OldmanSRS
    OldmanSRS Posts: 418
    Where does one buy the RDO-194's. I've been MIA from here for a couple of years and many brain cells ago.

    Thanks,
    Greg
    '65 427 Shelby Cobra
    '72 Triumph TR-6
    __________________
    '88 Polk SDA SRS 1.2, with upgraded XO caps and Erse SDA inductors
    '86 Polk SDA CRS+
    '84 Polk Monitor 10A (Peerless tweeters)
    '05 HSU VTF-3 Sub (Original OEM)
    '20 HSU VTF-3 Sub (three more, 100% cloned)
    '93 Carver TFM-35
    '88 Carver M-1.0t
    '88 Adcom GFT-555
    '88 Adcom GFP-555
    '88 Adcom GFA-555 (upgraded/restored)
    '88 Adcom GFA-555 (a second one upgraded/restored)
    '05 Onkyo DV-555 media
    '89 Fosgate 360 Digital Space Matrix
    '89 Fosgate 360 Digital Space Matrix, internal surround amp bridged to drive only a center channel
    '91 Kenwood Basic M1D Amp
    '89 Pioneer Laser Disc media
    '89 Sony SuperBeta HiFi media
    One PGA2310 based custom built remote volume control
    Four Polk T-15's
    Two Polk TSi-200's
    Two Polk TSi-100's
    Two Polk CS-10's