And the debate continues...

135

Comments

  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    I'll tell ya one thing, I've poked around a bit and this is the only forum I'd call "home".

    I didn't (intentionally) mean to spark a flame war, complete with personal attacks. The article I posted had a little something for both camps to chew on.

    The thing I found so compelling was that Ludwig and Clearmountain are really at the pinnacle of audio engineering and weighed in on the subject quite masterfully. If you don't happen to know who those guys are, go look at the credits some of your favorite recordings.
    Chops wrote: »
    That article is useless because it's all about the guys who are for digital.

    If those guys thought vinyl was better, they'd scream it from a mountain top. I trust their assessment far more than I do yours. How many Grammys have your golden ears gotten you again? How many professional grade, studio-quality masters have you ever even heard? Have you ever sat in a studio control room and listened to a digital master only to be disappointed at the final product's (CD OR vinyl) sonics? These guys know what the physical and technological limits of the various mediums are. They work with them, at the highest possible professional level, every day. To discount their learned opinions is folly and patently ridiculous.

    Mr. Chops, you are entitled your opinion. I won't begrudge you that. But your reaction to this article certainly qualifies you for the bozo list. It's fine to say you dig vinyl, I do to. But it's absurd to say that vinyl is superior. No professional audio engineer in the world would agree. And it is their work you are playing back on your TT.

    People love vinyl. I get it. I love it too, but PHYSICS dictates that you made some claims that are impossible to substantiate. The article made no such claims.




    -Kevin
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  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 4,877
    F1nut and Chops have the same avatar??? :#
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 14,637
    Reading this thread again reinforces to me why I will, most likely, never return to vinyl. In order to have working records they have to be cleaned with wood glue, recorded to tape, and never played again. LOL.
    Lumin X1 file player; Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
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  • teekay0007
    teekay0007 Posts: 2,292
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Reading this thread again reinforces to me why I will, most likely, never return to vinyl. In order to have working records they have to be cleaned with wood glue, recorded to tape, and never played again. [/b]LOL.

    The bolded part above points out the vinyl that chops was talking about that doesn't have any pops or ticks! :p

  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 22,978
    Ahhh yes... Club Polk.


    I come here for the popcorn.
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 10,718
    Is that 8-track still for sale?
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,801
    Never... pry it from my cold, dead hands...

    ;- )
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 46,022
    vmaxer wrote: »
    F1nut and Chops have the same avatar??? :#

    Seems he desperately wants to be me......LOL
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 4,877
    F1nut wrote: »
    vmaxer wrote: »
    F1nut and Chops have the same avatar??? :#

    Seems he desperately wants to be me......LOL

    Yep. B)
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
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    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

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    CSi40
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  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,138
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Never... pry it from my cold, dead hands...

    ;- )

    I had one just like it. That and all my 8-tracks got grabbed by my brother
    when I went overseas.
    Just as well!

    I used to put all my albums on tape as well for a long time.
    A combo of my crazy sister in law clearing out all the devil's work from my collection,and a brother in law borrowing most of the rest of my collection
    (kinda of like the 8 tracks) left me with little left to work with.
    I ended up going CD. Then I went to lossless flac.
    I'd have a tough time finding good vinyl now. I always liked
    it, but that's not the way things turned out.

    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 7,674
    Wow Jesse's got a doubleganger way cool :o. No pop no ticks that you don't need, immaculate, noise free vinyl is what we all need.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 7,205
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Reading this thread again reinforces to me why I will, most likely, never return to vinyl. In order to have working records they have to be cleaned with wood glue, recorded to tape, and never played again. LOL.

    We haven't discussed vinyl wet play yet....lol
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 7,205
    F1nut wrote: »
    Seems he desperately wants to be me......LOL

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, eh? ;) Could lead to stalking too.....lol
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo IIISE Pro ES9038 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,141
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Seems he desperately wants to be me......LOL

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, eh? ;) Could lead to stalking too.....lol

    0gdr06265jat.jpg


  • markmarc
    markmarc Posts: 2,307
    In 1984 I bought my first CDP, and promptly sold off all my albums at $3 a pop, about 90% having been played 3x at most using a nice Ortofon cartridge. To this day, I consider that to be the stupidest audio move I ever made.

    From plenty of listening experience with gear, once above $2k and matching price points, I'd rather listen to an analog setup to a redbook cd. I personally find more natural organic sound. I fidgit less in my chair. I don't get distracted or lose focus. I truly believe what some scientific research suggests in that the brain somehow picks up on the smearing of digital timing, if not just the chopping of digital sequence.

    I do find that with 24 bit native files, my brain does seem to stay more focused. Nor, while I say I avoid digital,...I don't. I love my TIDAL subscription along with my MacBook music server, Oppo DAC/Head amp or SimAudio DAC. But when I'm at TONEAudio studio, I definitely prefer hearing one of the turntables.
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  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    gudnoyez wrote: »
    I would like to know what cartridge stylus combo that is that virtually eliminates ticks and pops on not one album but all albums, amazing to say the least.

    No cartridge can do this, but I have found a cartridge that definitely is much quieter with ticks, pops, and surface noise than most other cartridges I've tried: Nagaoka MP50/500. It's a stellar moving magnet cart. In fact I like it better than most of my low output moving coil carts. Of course no cartridge can eliminate ticks, pops, and surface noise on medium or worse scratched or dirty records. If the vinyl is in decent shape however, its quietness with these type of artifacts will surprise you!

  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 9,461
    Why is everyone copying my avatar?
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 10,718
    Use guys need to read the fine print before changing your pic to me.
    "By uploading a file you certify that you have the right to distribute this picture and that it does not violate the Terms of Service."

    I'm going digital listening for the next 50 hours just to see if this thing
    has staying power.
  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,286
    edited April 2015
    F1nut wrote: »
    vmaxer wrote: »
    F1nut and Chops have the same avatar??? :#

    Seems he desperately wants to be me......LOL

    Wouldn't that indicate someone who "might" be trolling? Well, certainly NOT in Ken's case!

    These vinyl vs. digital debates are structurally reminiscent of cable debates here. And there is NO END to the debate.

    I also grew up with vinyl. Absolutely HATED the surface noise. Have heard TOP end tables, records cleaned with everything short of sulfuric acid, 200 lbs of sand filled platforms to quell vibrations, fabulously expensive arms and cartridges, etc. And there were STILL some pops here and there.

    As for me, I have some OLD vinyl I still play because I own it, but I have to remind myself to do so because I HATE cleaning and fussing over records, needles, and so on. For some reason that stuff causes stress and reduces the enjoyment of the music. The fact that I also have to get up every 20 minutes or so, and flip things is NOT attractive. lol

    But I do not begrudge the vinyl enthusiasts. I have heard some fine sounding vinyl, even on my LESS THAN STELLAR systems! I'm pretty much with Skip above. What's all the fuss? You like vinyl, you want to have a 50 lbs platter, a $2000 cartridge and needle and 300 or 400 lbs of anti-vibration sand platforms? Go with it!

    Different strokes for different folks and the band plays on!



    Post edited by cnh on
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 10,718
    OTOH, I just picked up a AC/DC BitB club LP pressed in the Netherlands.
    I'm not really a LP collector as much as a music collector but it is
    all in the hunt. I have time to do that right now. I get out and meet people
    as well. (other nuts I guess)
  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,385
    and though there is no end to the debate, I still found it a fun debate and respect both sides and like both sides. I am really enjoying the vinyl. but I have some nice Hi-rez downloads & SACD's

    And I sure understand anyone and everyone who wants no part of missing with a turntable ever again :)
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  • gce
    gce Posts: 2,158
    I don't know why and I don't care. :p
    https://youtu.be/RlBsaB1Bc9k
    
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  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,385
    nice video! I did buy his DVD on phono cartridges setup.
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,286
    edited April 2015
    Interesting video, but I still do not understand HOW a record pressed from a digital recording would sound "better" than the SACD version of the same digital recording. There is something a bit nonsensical about such a statement.

    Now, older vinyl was recorded on an analog medium and you can make an argument there that makes more sense because you're pressing an analog record from an analog original master TAPE. But in terms of "modern" pressings, well, everything in the modern recording studio is pretty much DIGITAL? Or to put it in Fremer's terms:

    I don't know why the moon isn't made of cheese! It still looks like cheese to me? lol

    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,585
    edited April 2015
    DSkip wrote: »
    Those who he piss off are normally ignorant and stubborn.... Just saying. I don't get that vibe from you. Chill out, take a step back, and read his post again. His response is not as bitter as you're making it out to be. Find some humor in it. I've said worse than that before.

    Haha wow, that's unbelievably ridiculous Skip. I don't get the JDC sometimes. The "Jesse Defense Crew" :D

    Let me first say that I've had a few run ins with Jesse but it's all good now and the beef was cooked (medium well) and eaten a long time ago. But for the love of pete, Jesse is no angel. You must be wearing the JDC special edition sunglasses with 100% tint if you believe that it's a one way street and that all who take issue with him are in the wrong.

    I'm not baggin' on Jesse either. I just couldn't sit back and let something like that fly. I've been around too long.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,801
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Reading this thread again reinforces to me why I will, most likely, never return to vinyl. In order to have working records they have to be cleaned with wood glue, recorded to tape, and never played again. LOL.

    We haven't discussed vinyl wet play yet....lol

    Did "we" talk about letting the groove recover after playing? In the 1970s, many otherwise rational people believed that, after playing, a vinyl record needed to recuperate for 24 hours before playing again...
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 14,637
    I think I remember that. Didn't it have to do with the force of the needle, which heated up the record, which softened it, hence distortion until the vinyl re hardened?
    Lumin X1 file player; Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
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  • gce
    gce Posts: 2,158
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    recuperate for 24 hours before playing again...

    I had a girlfriend who used to say that. LOL

    Anaheim Hills CA,
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  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 7,674


    We haven't discussed vinyl wet play yet....lol [/quote]

    Did "we" talk about letting the groove recover after playing? In the 1970s, many otherwise rational people believed that, after playing, a vinyl record needed to recuperate for 24 hours before playing again...[/quote]

    If that's the case my copy of Floyd Animals should of melted, that sucker played non stop for a couple of months side A side B over and over. I still own that album and recently played it the other day, I bet a dozen different cartridges have reproduced Pigs On The Wing!
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,585
    DSkip wrote: »
    I don't have to defend Jesse - he can do that himself. I've used his tactics before and even use them in my classroom at times. Sometimes you have to get under someone's skin in order to get some kind of understanding from them.

    What are these tactics you speak of?
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    || Tidal
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