And the debate continues...
Comments
-
I'll tell ya one thing, I've poked around a bit and this is the only forum I'd call "home".
I didn't (intentionally) mean to spark a flame war, complete with personal attacks. The article I posted had a little something for both camps to chew on.
The thing I found so compelling was that Ludwig and Clearmountain are really at the pinnacle of audio engineering and weighed in on the subject quite masterfully. If you don't happen to know who those guys are, go look at the credits some of your favorite recordings.That article is useless because it's all about the guys who are for digital.
If those guys thought vinyl was better, they'd scream it from a mountain top. I trust their assessment far more than I do yours. How many Grammys have your golden ears gotten you again? How many professional grade, studio-quality masters have you ever even heard? Have you ever sat in a studio control room and listened to a digital master only to be disappointed at the final product's (CD OR vinyl) sonics? These guys know what the physical and technological limits of the various mediums are. They work with them, at the highest possible professional level, every day. To discount their learned opinions is folly and patently ridiculous.
Mr. Chops, you are entitled your opinion. I won't begrudge you that. But your reaction to this article certainly qualifies you for the bozo list. It's fine to say you dig vinyl, I do to. But it's absurd to say that vinyl is superior. No professional audio engineer in the world would agree. And it is their work you are playing back on your TT.
People love vinyl. I get it. I love it too, but PHYSICS dictates that you made some claims that are impossible to substantiate. The article made no such claims.
-Kevin
HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
2 Channel:
Oppo BDP-83 SE
Squeezebox Touch
Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
VTL 2.5
McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
B&W 801's
Transparent IC's -
F1nut and Chops have the same avatar???
Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
Reading this thread again reinforces to me why I will, most likely, never return to vinyl. In order to have working records they have to be cleaned with wood glue, recorded to tape, and never played again. LOL.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Reading this thread again reinforces to me why I will, most likely, never return to vinyl. In order to have working records they have to be cleaned with wood glue, recorded to tape, and never played again. [/b]LOL.
The bolded part above points out the vinyl that chops was talking about that doesn't have any pops or ticks!
-
Ahhh yes... Club Polk.
I come here for the popcorn.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Is that 8-track still for sale?
-
Never... pry it from my cold, dead hands...
;- )
-
F1nut and Chops have the same avatar???
Seems he desperately wants to be me......LOL
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Yep.
Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
mhardy6647 wrote: »Never... pry it from my cold, dead hands...
;- )
I had one just like it. That and all my 8-tracks got grabbed by my brother
when I went overseas.
Just as well!
I used to put all my albums on tape as well for a long time.
A combo of my crazy sister in law clearing out all the devil's work from my collection,and a brother in law borrowing most of the rest of my collection
(kinda of like the 8 tracks) left me with little left to work with.
I ended up going CD. Then I went to lossless flac.
I'd have a tough time finding good vinyl now. I always liked
it, but that's not the way things turned out.
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
Wow Jesse's got a doubleganger way cool
. No pop no ticks that you don't need, immaculate, noise free vinyl is what we all need. Home Theater
Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable
2 Channel
Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+
Stuff for the Head
JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365
Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin -
Reading this thread again reinforces to me why I will, most likely, never return to vinyl. In order to have working records they have to be cleaned with wood glue, recorded to tape, and never played again. LOL.
We haven't discussed vinyl wet play yet....lolSalk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
Seems he desperately wants to be me......LOL
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, eh?
Could lead to stalking too.....lol
Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
-
In 1984 I bought my first CDP, and promptly sold off all my albums at $3 a pop, about 90% having been played 3x at most using a nice Ortofon cartridge. To this day, I consider that to be the stupidest audio move I ever made.
From plenty of listening experience with gear, once above $2k and matching price points, I'd rather listen to an analog setup to a redbook cd. I personally find more natural organic sound. I fidgit less in my chair. I don't get distracted or lose focus. I truly believe what some scientific research suggests in that the brain somehow picks up on the smearing of digital timing, if not just the chopping of digital sequence.
I do find that with 24 bit native files, my brain does seem to stay more focused. Nor, while I say I avoid digital,...I don't. I love my TIDAL subscription along with my MacBook music server, Oppo DAC/Head amp or SimAudio DAC. But when I'm at TONEAudio studio, I definitely prefer hearing one of the turntables.Review Site_ (((AudioPursuit)))
Founder/Publisher Affordable$$Audio 2006-13.
Former Staff Member TONEAudio
2 Ch. System
Amplifiers: Parasound Halo P6 pre, Vista Audio i34, Peachtree amp500, Adcom GFP-565 GFA-535ii, 545ii, 555ii
Digital: SimAudio HAD230 DAC, iMac 20in/Amarra,
Speakers: Paradigm Performa F75, Magnepan .7, Totem Model 1's, ACI Emerald XL, Celestion Si Stands. Totem Dreamcatcher sub
Analog: Technics SL-J2 w/Pickering 3000D, SimAudio LP5.3 phono pre
Cable/Wires: Cardas, AudioArt, Shunyata Venom 3 -
I would like to know what cartridge stylus combo that is that virtually eliminates ticks and pops on not one album but all albums, amazing to say the least.
No cartridge can do this, but I have found a cartridge that definitely is much quieter with ticks, pops, and surface noise than most other cartridges I've tried: Nagaoka MP50/500. It's a stellar moving magnet cart. In fact I like it better than most of my low output moving coil carts. Of course no cartridge can eliminate ticks, pops, and surface noise on medium or worse scratched or dirty records. If the vinyl is in decent shape however, its quietness with these type of artifacts will surprise you!
-
Why is everyone copying my avatar?afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
Use guys need to read the fine print before changing your pic to me.
"By uploading a file you certify that you have the right to distribute this picture and that it does not violate the Terms of Service."
I'm going digital listening for the next 50 hours just to see if this thing
has staying power. -
Wouldn't that indicate someone who "might" be trolling? Well, certainly NOT in Ken's case!
These vinyl vs. digital debates are structurally reminiscent of cable debates here. And there is NO END to the debate.
I also grew up with vinyl. Absolutely HATED the surface noise. Have heard TOP end tables, records cleaned with everything short of sulfuric acid, 200 lbs of sand filled platforms to quell vibrations, fabulously expensive arms and cartridges, etc. And there were STILL some pops here and there.
As for me, I have some OLD vinyl I still play because I own it, but I have to remind myself to do so because I HATE cleaning and fussing over records, needles, and so on. For some reason that stuff causes stress and reduces the enjoyment of the music. The fact that I also have to get up every 20 minutes or so, and flip things is NOT attractive. lol
But I do not begrudge the vinyl enthusiasts. I have heard some fine sounding vinyl, even on my LESS THAN STELLAR systems! I'm pretty much with Skip above. What's all the fuss? You like vinyl, you want to have a 50 lbs platter, a $2000 cartridge and needle and 300 or 400 lbs of anti-vibration sand platforms? Go with it!
Different strokes for different folks and the band plays on!
Post edited by cnh onCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
OTOH, I just picked up a AC/DC BitB club LP pressed in the Netherlands.
I'm not really a LP collector as much as a music collector but it is
all in the hunt. I have time to do that right now. I get out and meet people
as well. (other nuts I guess) -
and though there is no end to the debate, I still found it a fun debate and respect both sides and like both sides. I am really enjoying the vinyl. but I have some nice Hi-rez downloads & SACD's
And I sure understand anyone and everyone who wants no part of missing with a turntable ever again
2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge
HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD -
I don't know why and I don't care.
https://youtu.be/RlBsaB1Bc9k
Anaheim Hills CA,
HT 5.1: Anthem MRX 720 / BDP-Denon DBT1713UD / Polkaudio LSiM703 / W4S mAmp's / Polkaudio LSiM706c / Polkaudio LSiM702F/X's / SVS PC12-NSD / Panasonic TC P55VT30
2 Channel: Rogue RP-5 / WireWorld Electra power cord / Marantz TT-15S1/ Ortofon - Quintet Black MC / Marantz NA8005 DAC / W4S mAmp's / Synology DS 216+ll-4TB / Polkaudio LSiM703 -
nice video! I did buy his DVD on phono cartridges setup.2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge
HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD -
Interesting video, but I still do not understand HOW a record pressed from a digital recording would sound "better" than the SACD version of the same digital recording. There is something a bit nonsensical about such a statement.
Now, older vinyl was recorded on an analog medium and you can make an argument there that makes more sense because you're pressing an analog record from an analog original master TAPE. But in terms of "modern" pressings, well, everything in the modern recording studio is pretty much DIGITAL? Or to put it in Fremer's terms:
I don't know why the moon isn't made of cheese! It still looks like cheese to me? lol
Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
Those who he piss off are normally ignorant and stubborn.... Just saying. I don't get that vibe from you. Chill out, take a step back, and read his post again. His response is not as bitter as you're making it out to be. Find some humor in it. I've said worse than that before.
Haha wow, that's unbelievably ridiculous Skip. I don't get the JDC sometimes. The "Jesse Defense Crew"
Let me first say that I've had a few run ins with Jesse but it's all good now and the beef was cooked (medium well) and eaten a long time ago. But for the love of pete, Jesse is no angel. You must be wearing the JDC special edition sunglasses with 100% tint if you believe that it's a one way street and that all who take issue with him are in the wrong.
I'm not baggin' on Jesse either. I just couldn't sit back and let something like that fly. I've been around too long.
-
SCompRacer wrote: »
Did "we" talk about letting the groove recover after playing? In the 1970s, many otherwise rational people believed that, after playing, a vinyl record needed to recuperate for 24 hours before playing again... -
I think I remember that. Didn't it have to do with the force of the needle, which heated up the record, which softened it, hence distortion until the vinyl re hardened?Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
mhardy6647 wrote: »recuperate for 24 hours before playing again...
I had a girlfriend who used to say that. LOL
Anaheim Hills CA,
HT 5.1: Anthem MRX 720 / BDP-Denon DBT1713UD / Polkaudio LSiM703 / W4S mAmp's / Polkaudio LSiM706c / Polkaudio LSiM702F/X's / SVS PC12-NSD / Panasonic TC P55VT30
2 Channel: Rogue RP-5 / WireWorld Electra power cord / Marantz TT-15S1/ Ortofon - Quintet Black MC / Marantz NA8005 DAC / W4S mAmp's / Synology DS 216+ll-4TB / Polkaudio LSiM703 -
We haven't discussed vinyl wet play yet....lol [/quote]
Did "we" talk about letting the groove recover after playing? In the 1970s, many otherwise rational people believed that, after playing, a vinyl record needed to recuperate for 24 hours before playing again...[/quote]
If that's the case my copy of Floyd Animals should of melted, that sucker played non stop for a couple of months side A side B over and over. I still own that album and recently played it the other day, I bet a dozen different cartridges have reproduced Pigs On The Wing!
Home Theater
Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable
2 Channel
Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+
Stuff for the Head
JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365
Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin -
I don't have to defend Jesse - he can do that himself. I've used his tactics before and even use them in my classroom at times. Sometimes you have to get under someone's skin in order to get some kind of understanding from them.
What are these tactics you speak of?
![[Deleted User]](https://w4.vanillicon.com/40bc09a87daec053937ab0249c85e591_100.png)
