And the debate continues...

124

Comments

  • btown1985
    btown1985 Posts: 113
    Sometimes I wonder if the individuals that tend to blow up on forums actually have real friends...or ever have a conversation with real people. Things happen, passions run high but no need to take anything personally. Not sure the same things would be said in person and its not good practice to hide behind a keyboard. Above all, have integrity and respect everyone!
    LSiM 705 and 706c, Def Tech Supercube I, Anthem AVM20 Processor, Oppo BDP-105D, Adcom GFA-5503, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M, Panamax Elite 15PFi
  • btown1985
    btown1985 Posts: 113
    Just wanted to throw something positive out there
    LSiM 705 and 706c, Def Tech Supercube I, Anthem AVM20 Processor, Oppo BDP-105D, Adcom GFA-5503, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M, Panamax Elite 15PFi
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,034
    I don't care what anybody says... right now Van Morrison is performing in my audio room on vinyl and the speakers have vanished. I have a few CDs that can pull off the same illusion. There is a place for all formats in a well balanced setup.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,506
    Vinyl or digital.... seems to me like the consensus is some like one and/or the other.

    But the more interesting thing that I gathered from this thread is that there are some members on this forum who seem (meaning via the written internet word) to be a little bit on the antagonistic side. And lots of passive aggressive tone as well.

    This place sometimes feels like a high school.

    Let's chill out.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,711
    Haha wow, that's unbelievably ridiculous Skip. I don't get the JDC sometimes. The "Jesse Defense Crew" :D

    Let me first say that I've had a few run ins with Jesse but it's all good now and the beef was cooked (medium well) and eaten a long time ago. But for the love of pete, Jesse is no angel. You must be wearing the JDC special edition sunglasses with 100% tint if you believe that it's a one way street and that all who take issue with him are in the wrong.

    I'm not baggin' on Jesse either. I just couldn't sit back and let something like that fly. I've been around too long.

    I guess you can call me the SDC B)

    Skip didn't say everyone that I've had a disagreement with is ignorant and stubborn. He qualified his comment by saying normally. For the most part I would have to agree.

    That said, Skip was wrong about this guy. He did indeed turn out to be one of those Skip described.

    BTW, I am an angel o:)
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,484
    edited April 2015
    Can I throw Reel-To-Reel into the mix?! :D

    In all seriousness, I love the tonality of vinyl as it is a pure analog format and presents some phenominal tonality, IMO. BUT, CD's and particularly SACD's can also present some phenominal tonality as well.

    Mastering can be the final and definitive statement for how good a format sounds, IMO. Also, this does not change the fact that vinyl presents some surface noise that CD/SACD does not; that is an absolute fact. NO vinyl will always be absolutely pristine. Anyone thinking differently is deluding themselves. In the short or long term, you will get surface noise and degredation of the vinyl. That is fact.

    But, I will say (just as RTR) I love the tonality of vinyl.

    I also love the tonality of many CD's and SACD's too, and will let the mastering determine what format I listen to.

    Edit: WTF!?!? This F1Nut avatar is getting rediculous! I posted and just looked at the thread from the main page and it shows F1Nut posted!? WTF!?! LOL! Hey, more power to Jesse I guess! LOL!
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....


    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,711
    I posted and just looked at the thread from the main page and it shows F1Nut posted!? WTF!?!

    That's a problem with Vanilla, been doing whacky stuff like that for a few days now.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    FWIW, I much prefer the occasional pop-click of an LP to a constant tape hiss or, the muddying effect that most NR circuits have on a tape's fidelity. Hard to beat "Brothers in Arms" or "Gaucho" on CD through good electronics, out of some SRS Polks ! I have never felt as though I was at a live performance listening to vinyl or tape nearly as much as plain, old redbook CDs. (I'm afraid to dabble in SACD ! $$$ :o ) On another note......Ford-GM or Mopar ? Argue amongst yerselves ! :D
  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    F1nut wrote: »
    Haha wow, that's unbelievably ridiculous Skip. I don't get the JDC sometimes. The "Jesse Defense Crew" :D

    Let me first say that I've had a few run ins with Jesse but it's all good now and the beef was cooked (medium well) and eaten a long time ago. But for the love of pete, Jesse is no angel. You must be wearing the JDC special edition sunglasses with 100% tint if you believe that it's a one way street and that all who take issue with him are in the wrong.

    I'm not baggin' on Jesse either. I just couldn't sit back and let something like that fly. I've been around too long.

    I guess you can call me the SDC B)

    Skip didn't say everyone that I've had a disagreement with is ignorant and stubborn. He qualified his comment by saying normally. For the most part I would have to agree.

    That said, Skip was wrong about this guy. He did indeed turn out to be one of those Skip described.

    BTW, I am an angel o:)

    Fine. Do you like my avatar?

    Skip, you're skating on thin ice buddy.
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,506
    Ayiyiyi....
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,484
    F1nut wrote: »
    I posted and just looked at the thread from the main page and it shows F1Nut posted!? WTF!?!

    That's a problem with Vanilla, been doing whacky stuff like that for a few days now.

    Yeah, like from day one, huh? :o
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....


    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,521
    edited April 2015
    Beauty is in the ear of the beholder. What useless argument shall we have next? Which is better, waffles or pancakes? Music listening/enjoyment has always, and WILL always boil down to an emotional experience; not a white paper.

    While I am a super-fussy listener (don't like noises/hiss, etc), I do enoy the sound of---and the ritual of, vinyl playback. You can go to a nice, clean U.S. restaurant and eat Mexican; or you can go to Mexico and have the real deal. You'll travel some terrible roads, see alot of pollution and poverty; but you'll never replace the ambience/emotion of the real experince, warts and all. You feeling me?
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,034
    steveinaz wrote: »
    Beauty is in the ear of the beholder. What useless argument shall we have next? Which is better, waffles or pancakes?

    I prefer flapjacks to either of the options you listed. Anyone that thinks differently has no taste buds, or is a freakin liar. >:)

    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,521
    I have resisted the urge for about the last 7 years or so, of putting together a vinyl setup. I grew up on vinyl, and sometimes really miss it.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,053
    Tubes w/a decent digital rig can give you attributes of both a superior digital sound and waves of analog (LP) type presentation. That's as far as I am willing to go as I don't have the time to deal with the ritual of vinyl. I am border line obsessive and vinyl would have me climbing the walls trying to eek out the last nth degree of performance and/or making PERFECTLY clean surfaces.

    And no matter what the format is, you will ALWAYS be at the mercy of the recording. No one can make a blanket statement about one being better than the other because the most prominent variable is something that is completely out of the end users control, the mastering/mixing process.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • btown1985
    btown1985 Posts: 113
    I get emotional just turning music on, helps with whatever I'm feeling. Not sure when/if I will ever get to that critical point choosing a better format. Differences yes but one better than another...maybe?
    LSiM 705 and 706c, Def Tech Supercube I, Anthem AVM20 Processor, Oppo BDP-105D, Adcom GFA-5503, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M, Panamax Elite 15PFi
  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    There IS one constant, in my opinion.........Compression=Evil ! ;)
  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    steveinaz wrote: »
    Beauty is in the ear of the beholder. What useless argument shall we have next? Which is better, waffles or pancakes? Music listening/enjoyment has always, and WILL always boil down to an emotional experience; not a white paper.

    While I am a super-fussy listener (don't like noises/hiss, etc), I do enoy the sound of---and the ritual of, vinyl playback. You can go to a nice, clean U.S. restaurant and eat Mexican; or you can go to Mexico and have the real deal. You'll travel some terrible roads, see alot of pollution and poverty; but you'll never replace the ambience/emotion of the real experince, warts and all. You feeling me?

    Yes, this.
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,521
    HEY! When did you get the Super SL-5 Harbeth's? I'm jealous.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • btown1985
    btown1985 Posts: 113
    Very well put heiney9
    LSiM 705 and 706c, Def Tech Supercube I, Anthem AVM20 Processor, Oppo BDP-105D, Adcom GFA-5503, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M, Panamax Elite 15PFi
  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    steveinaz wrote: »
    HEY! When did you get the Super SL-5 Harbeth's? I'm jealous.

    Haha was waiting to hear from you! Started a thread over in the "Speakers" section, lets chat over there :)
  • RamZet
    RamZet Posts: 792
    xcapri79 wrote: »
    While my kids were growing I kept my LP's more or less hidden to preserve them. One day, my teenage son was going on and on about Green Day and Blink 182 etc., so I told him, "Do you want to see and hear something really cool?"

    I pulled out my Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club LP showed it to him and actually let him hold it. His eyes popped as he was just used to CD's. We played it and he was hooked. He got into the Beatles, as well as, other groups. Their music inspired him to learn how to play the guitar and get into a band. There is something about the LP and the big cover that is cool!

    Have you picked up a CD lately?
    The paper covers they come in remind me of my LPs. They unfold, covered in art, and have a nice booklet or two in them. I guess somewhere along the line somebody else had the thought you had about the big covers.
    B&W CM9Classé Sigma
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    The biggest advantage to the cardboard CD holders is they no longer have the barcode strip sealing the plastic case together. I hated that thing.
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  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 9,969
    Yeah, that strip sealing the plastic case together was one of those things that made people say, "We can put a man on the moon but we can't figure out a better way to seal a CD case? It went on for years with those things...
  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,708
    RamZet wrote: »
    Have you picked up a CD lately?
    The paper covers they come in remind me of my LPs. They unfold, covered in art, and have a nice booklet or two in them. I guess somewhere along the line somebody else had the thought you had about the big covers.

    I have a few of them and like the concept, but some of the ones I have are a little taller than a standard CD case, and they won't fit in my oak CD racks, or my travel case. And they aren't as easily replaced if damaged.

  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    dromunds wrote: »
    Yeah, that strip sealing the plastic case together was one of those things that made people say, "We can put a man on the moon but we can't figure out a better way to seal a CD case? It went on for years with those things...

    What about trying to unwrap cassettes when the "peeler" strip broke? Didn't that give rise to the saying "why can't they make condoms from this stuff?"

    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
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  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,640
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Seems he desperately wants to be me......LOL

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, eh? ;) Could lead to stalking too.....lol

    http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/cmfk4j/the-office---jim-imitating-dwight
  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 8,056
    There are debates on every hobby forum board whether it's a mountain biking, fishing, hunting, firearms, ( whatever other hobbies your into ) type forum. I like reading them all some get pretty heated but hey it's one's passion of said hobbies.

    A good example is my ex son in law borrowed my chainsaw last fall go to get it yesterday, as I had a few trees and shrubs die over the last couple of winters that needed to be brought down. He didn't clean it up or drain the old fuel so It wouldn't start.

    I messed around with it most of yesterday to finally get it started, come to find out the oiler pump gave out on it as he was using 30 weight in the middle of winter at negative temps to keep the bar and chain oiled, needless to say the seals must of gave out trying to pump out thick cold oil.

    I made him take it to the shop on his dime to get it repaired. Needing to get something I bought me an electric Remington chain saw to get me buy until my real saw gets out of the shop. I got on a couple of arborist forums to see what people recommend for bar and chain oil , let me tell you there are plenty of heated topics titled another oil debate and others were some pretty heated discussions. I guess the point I'm trying to get across is everyone has their own opinions. I enjoy reading debates like this one. I'm rambling I'm out.
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