The AI-1 Dreadnought Project Pt.1

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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited January 2012
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    If you are going to orient the case resting on its bottom, the retaining bolt, top plate and rubber pads are adequate. If you are going to orient the case resting on its side, then a center piece or some external brace similar to what is shown in post #33 of this thread would be a good idea.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • Polkie2009
    Polkie2009 Posts: 3,834
    edited January 2012
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    I bought a used AI-1 someone had built here at CP a couple of years ago. At the time, I thought about buying a used Aragon 8008BB amp because I had heard a lot of good things about them. Doing more research on the amp,I contacted Rick Santiago over at Indy Audio Labs to find out if theAragon amp was common ground and could be used with my Polk SDA/SRS 2's.Got the same info headrott mentioned above so I decided not to buy an Aragon. Went with a Parasound 1200 mkII ,which is definitely a common ground amp:) Now I'm curious about trying the used AI-1 with the Parasound to see if it sounds any better than the stock interconnect.
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  • MillerLiteScott
    MillerLiteScott Posts: 2,564
    edited January 2012
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    This is a solution to house the Avel transformer I came up with in mid 2008 to match my SDA2BTL's. I painted my 2B's end caps black so I made this black oak box to house the transformer. In early 2009 I cut some scrap 20 oz roofing copper to shield the transformer after the potato thread of the time. Since then it has basically been out of site out of mind for me.
    I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D
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  • PolkMaster1
    PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2012
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    Replacing the stock interconnect with binding posts and a heavy guage speakerwire (say 12 guage or higher) with spades will expand the soundstage over and beyond the stock interconnect. I hope to receive my AI case soon to start building the dreadnought and take the soundstage even further.

    Make sure to use quality speakerwire to get the best results.
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
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  • PolkMaster1
    PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2012
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    MLS - very nice work indeed!!! I hope you are enjoying the results!!!
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited January 2012
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    MillerLiteScott wrote: »
    This is a solution to house the Avel transformer I came up with in mid 2008 to match my SDA2BTL's. I painted my 2B's end caps black so I made this black oak box to house the transformer. In early 2009 I cut some scrap 20 oz roofing copper to shield the transformer after the potato thread of the time. Since then it has basically been out of site out of mind for me.

    Very nice! I thought about making my own box as well. Where did you get the copper roofing material from?
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • PolkMaster1
    PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2012
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    Lasareath wrote: »
    I'l be using MIT Shotgun S1 Bi wired speaker cables with my 1.2tl's

    Nice cables. I am not certian yet whether to use my own custom cables or use something less expensive - like MIT Shotgun Cables. :cheesygrin:
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
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  • PolkMaster1
    PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2012
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    drumminman wrote: »
    Very nice! I thought about making my own box as well. Where did you get the copper roofing material from?

    I too would be interested in the copper roofing material. Could aluminum be used as a cheaper substitute, or are the properties of aluminum covering inhibit the effectiveness of shielding compared to copper material?
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
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  • PolkMaster1
    PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2012
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    Sal -

    Very nice work!!! I placed the order for my enclosure over the weekend and hope to have it as quickly as you did. My transformer arrived 14 months ago. I was entangled in a "small delay" on purchasing the enclosure at that time. :cheesygrin: I hope my enclosure project comes as close as yours in the results department.

    Will you be using any feet on the enclosure? If so, where are you getting the feet from?
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
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  • PolkMaster1
    PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2012
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    Lasareath wrote: »
    I want to use spikes and I think I'm going to use 3 in a triangular pattern. two in the front and one in the back.

    Where do you plan to get the spikes from? And what binding posts do you plan to use?
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,757
    edited January 2012
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    Lasareath wrote: »
    two in the front and one in the back.

    It's just too hard to pass up........






    That's what she said :smile:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited January 2012
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    Hey Lasareath,

    What power amps will you be using with your new Dreadnought? Common ground or not?

    Nice work BTW.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited January 2012
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    PolkMaster1 wrote: »
    I too would be interested in the copper roofing material. Could aluminum be used as a cheaper substitute, or are the properties of aluminum covering inhibit the effectiveness of shielding compared to copper material?
    Lasareath wrote: »
    I think I want to use copper a well. Where can I find it?

    Aluminum is 40% less conductive than copper and is 9% less conductive than gold. Aluminum has the advantage that its conductivity to weight ratio (specific conductivity) is twice that of copper.

    An aluminum wire with the same conductivity, or current capacity, as a copper wire will be 40% larger, but will have half the weight and lower cost. Aluminum typically costs 7% to 100% less than copper depending on market conditions and the application requirements. That is why aluminum is widely used for electric transmission lines, transformers and electronic gear cases that must have shielding properties.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited January 2012
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    Lasareath wrote: »
    Thanks.

    Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 300. It's a dual mono design on one chassis.

    Would I be correct in assuming it's common ground?
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 52,406
    edited January 2012
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    It's a dual mono design on one chassis.

    It's two.
    Would I be correct in assuming it's common ground?

    It is not common ground.
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  • PolkMaster1
    PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2012
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    Sal -

    I am thinking of using handles for my Dreadnought. Assuming you got the handles from Par-Metal, what is the part number?

    Thanks.
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
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  • PolkMaster1
    PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2012
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    Not to hijack this thread, but -

    Recently I replaced the stock interconnect cable with binding posts and a custom made speaker cable. All I can say is WOW!!! WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!! I notice a HUGE improvement in the SDA effect over the stock cable. I would go as far as to say that the SDA 3D effect is on steroids!!! Its really like being there - the SDA effect feels like a full 360 degrees.

    I do admit that the sample set is small at the moment as I am using Blu-Ray movies as the source of playback. But damn it is good!!!

    I am going through with the dreadnought project though, so this question is for Darque Knight as well as others who may have went down this path. What improvement should I expect going from the custom binding post-custom cable solution to the dreadnought?

    Thanks all.

    PM1
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited January 2012
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    Something like this would work well:

    Thermally Conductive Epoxy Potting Compound

    It is available from Mouser:

    MG Chemicals 832TC-450ML
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,757
    edited January 2012
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    Toolfan66 are those the Meniscus Audio spikes?
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited January 2012
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    That case is very nice Larry! I like it! Prepunched holes for the Cardas binding posts, Meniscus spikes, and the transformer! Nice!

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited January 2012
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    Nice workmanship!

    What do you plan to do with the others you built? I'd love to buy one if you have any extras.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • PolkMaster1
    PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2012
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    If the Tool-Master made cases for a living, he would have many repeat customers from this forum.
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited January 2012
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    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    Headrott,Dumminman,Brgman,Polkmaster1 have first dibs on the 4 extra chassis I have. I will PM you guys Monday for details.

    :cool: Thanks!
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited January 2012
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    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    Maybe sometime down the road DK can do some testing with the nice gear he has.:smile:

    It's on my list of things to do.
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    Well just as I thought I hear no discernible difference between using a steel chassis or aluminum chassis but my curiosity can now rest on this matter.. I'm sure if it effects the sound it's very little that one can't hear it.. YMMV..

    For the record both cases are the same size 10 x 10 x 4 and 14ga.

    This is good info. Most audio gear is housed in a steel case.

    Did you listen to a variety of music with both vocals and instrumental-only selections?
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited January 2012
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    I made my leads 10' on each side. Making them too short could limit your placement options if you need to move things around in the future.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited January 2012
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    Making an AI-1 using the original pin/blade cable is doing things the hard way. Since both wires inside the original pin/blade cable are connected to the pin, you end up having to use an extra length of wire. I found it easier just to use a pair of speaker cables to begin with.

    See the attached instructions for guidelines on converting a pin/blade cable to an AI-1.
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  • PolkMaster1
    PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2012
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    Sal -

    Very nice work!!! I cancelled my order with Par-Metal and went with Tool For Lifes (TF66) AI-1. I hope to get it in time to have my AI-1 built over the weekend.
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited January 2012
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    Larry I'd be in for the last one, but can I see a pic first?
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • huy
    huy Posts: 10
    edited January 2012
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    Dear Polk Experts,

    Could you help me to explain why AI-1 can help non common ground amp works with SDA speakers? What is the purpose of toroidal transformer in this case?

    Thank you very much.
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  • Schurkey
    Schurkey Posts: 2,130
    edited January 2012
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    huy wrote: »
    Dear Polk Experts,

    Could you help me to explain why AI-1 can help non common ground amp works with SDA speakers? What is the purpose of toroidal transformer in this case?

    Thank you very much.
    With a normal SDA, a bit of the "Left" channel electricity gets routed to the "Right" speaker, and returns to the amplifier through the right side wiring. Same on the other side--some of the Right side electricity gets routed to the left speaker, and returns to the amp through the left side wiring. If the amp is common ground, the stray bits of left and right electricity can find their way home using the chassis ground.

    If the amp is not common-ground, the stray bits of electricity stay lost and angry, and cause problems with the amp, the speakers, or both.

    Adding an isolation transformer (doesn't have to be toroidal) in the SDA cable assures that the left electricity never truly gets routed to the right speaker, and the right electricity never truly gets routed to the left speaker, all the electricity gets routed the correct channel of the amp, and therefore it doesn't need a common ground in the amp to find it's way home. No angry electricity, no problems for amp and speakers.

    The transformer can only be used on SDA speakers new enough to use a single conductor between left and right; older speakers used two conductors. The difference is usually (not always) apparent by the style of SDA cable connector, twin blades would NOT be compatible with the AI-1 transformer, a pin and a blade is.
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