Toyota shuts down production and halts sales

AsSiMiLaTeD

But is his list worldwide or US recalls, that's my point, are you comparing apples and oranges? If his list is US recalls then you need to restrict yours to that as well in order to compare, in which case the numbers are lower. Make sense?

Your second point is well noted, and I don't think anyone REALLY believes that foreign cars are defect free. Like I said before, they're run by human beings just like the big 3.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Thinking and searching around here on the forum a bit, I have a somewhat related question:

Where was all the outrage on here a while back when Ford did the recall on 12 million cars due to the faulty cruise control module that supposedly also caused deaths?

I'm getting the fiigures and associated deaths comments from Venom's post, so not sure the exact source of that. I don't know about deaths, but I can sure confirm the house fires, because my neighbor had one, burned his house completely to the ground.

Regardless, where is the post on that whole ordeal? I did a quick search, and there are several threads regarding Ford, but none on that.

In fact, I did quick title searches on Ford, Chevy, Dodge, and Toyota. Here is what I found - note that I didn't go into every thread and search for negative comments, I just took a look at the titles and first post or two to get a feel for what was being posted - I also excluded any posts from obvious asshats that are no longer with us, like Carl.

Chevy - 0 negative posts
Dodge - 0 negative posts
Ford - 0 negative posts, even given the somewhat recent recalls
Toyota - 7 negative posts, 1 of which is really only borderline negative

I'm not whining saying we should bash Ford, in fact please don't because I'm going tonight to pick up a new F-150

What I am saying is that we don't appear to be applying criticism equally. I mean seriously, Ford has an issue that (maybe) kills people and a massive 12 million car recall and it doesn't get mentioned yet we get numerous threads on this? I don't get it.

shawn474

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

Thinking and searching around here on the forum a bit, I have a somewhat related question:

Where was all the outrage on here a while back when Ford did the recall on 12 million cars due to the faulty cruise control module that supposedly also caused deaths?

I'm getting the fiigures and associated deaths comments from Venom's post, so not sure the exact source of that. I don't know about deaths, but I can sure confirm the house fires, because my neighbor had one, burned his house completely to the ground.

Regardless, where is the post on that whole ordeal? I did a quick search, and there are several threads regarding Ford, but none on that.

In fact, I did quick title searches on Ford, Chevy, Dodge, and Toyota. Here is what I found - note that I didn't go into every thread and search for negative comments, I just took a look at the titles and first post or two to get a feel for what was being posted - I also excluded any posts from obvious asshats that are no longer with us, like Carl.

Chevy - 0 negative posts
Dodge - 0 negative posts
Ford - 0 negative posts, even given the somewhat recent recalls
Toyota - 7 negative posts, 1 of which is really only borderline negative

I'm not whining saying we should bash Ford, in fact please don't because I'm going tonight to pick up a new F-150

What I am saying is that we don't appear to be applying criticism equally. I mean seriously, Ford has an issue that (maybe) kills people and a massive 12 million car recall and it doesn't get mentioned yet we get numerous threads on this? I don't get it.

You stated my poiny much more eloquently than I ever could..........;) Seems to be a double standard.

nooshinjohn

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

I'm not whining saying we should bash Ford, in fact please don't because I'm going tonight to pick up a new F-150

FORD SUCKS!!!:D Go Chevy!:cool:

Theres a Ford bash for ya!:p

Seriously, enjoy the new truck man.

AsSiMiLaTeD

I was going to buy a Tundra originally, but they're giving me a great deal on this one. The Tundra may be a better truck, but it's not worth twice the price of this one! Plus, I like how Ford has handled the whole bailout thing, and as ridiculous as it sound, that literally is half the reasosn I'm buying this truck!

Here's the one I'm looking at, always wanted a black truck:

http://www.prestigegarland.com/new_inventory.php?vehicle%5Fguid=97fd03f2%2D46b0%2D4842%2D9081%2Dc377618df14d

nooshinjohn

the Tundra is on the "no fly" list:D...

Good luck with the new truck

AsSiMiLaTeD

I'm not worried about the issues with the Tundra so much, as that's being fixed, just not excited about paying 35K for a truck

Systems

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

I'm not worried about the issues with the Tundra so much, as that's being fixed, just not excited about paying 35K for a truck

I looked at a 2010 3/4 ton, 4 door, Cummins, Dodge the other day. The sticker price was $56,000

jz0h4d

Ha..Ha..Ha..Ha..

Jstas

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

What I am saying is that we don't appear to be applying criticism equally. I mean seriously, Ford has an issue that (maybe) kills people and a massive 12 million car recall and it doesn't get mentioned yet we get numerous threads on this? I don't get it.

The Ford recall happened in 2003-2004. Nobody was really in to that stuff here then and nobody discussed it. Just because it wasn't discussed doesn't mean Toyota is being singled out.

Besides, you just looked at threads. Look for posts and you will see much more negative stuff about the Detroit 3.

It's not a double standard. It's just a lack of interest. Not everybody reads the industry rags and honestly there hasn't been much worth mentioning from the Big 3 lately. Can't really have recalls of any measure if you aren't selling anything.

And I know when and what happened with the cruise control for the Ford recall. My truck was not affected because of the manufacture date but Ford extended the recall to my truck anyway. It was part of the second phase of the recall. I found out because I took my truck in for service and state inspection and they disconnected the cruise control. When I called to complain, they told me it was temporary until they got new switches in to replace them and the notification of inclusion in the recall should be showing up in a day or two. It did and a few months later I got a notice telling me to come in get it fixed. So I did. Everything was good after that.

dorourke07

I don't think people are being unfair to Toyota. They are #1, so they need to be able to handle the big time. Their #1 and #2 selling points are quailty and resale(because of quality). Its in every commercial, not horsepower or features. When you step into the spotlight you created hopefully you are ready. How much venom did GM and Chrysler endure for the bailouts (and are still enduring)? They earned every bit of that. What I got from this is that Toyota is just a car maker, nothing more. So they are going to have to earn my business like anyone else, because their products are not special. Its like when hybrid owners find out that their batteries come from strip mining northern Canada or South America. I guess that leaves Apple as the only iconic company.....execpt this ipad thing.....

sucks2beme

Toyota still makes a quality product. This is just a blip.
But yes, they have been riding high for a while.
The sales guys are royal **** over at Toyota dealerships.
This should bring them back down to earth.
The F150 is a very good value right now. Price is right
and the quality is pretty good(not great).
Add in my Ford X-plan discount, it makes it a hard deal to beat.
If gas just would just level off in price for a while.......

concealer404

shawn474 wrote: »

You stated my poiny much more eloquently than I ever could..........;) Seems to be a double standard.

Double standards are what drives the posts of a few people in these automotive threads.

Hey, if Toyota SHOULD fail over this, then Ford should have failed, GM should have failed.... (oh wait, ) etc etc etc... the list goes on.

But facts and integrity are of no consequence when it's time to bash Toyota.

shawn474

concealer404 wrote: »

But facts and integrity are of no consequence when it's time to bash Toyota.

What?
Not understanding what you mean here.

concealer404

shawn474 wrote: »

What?
Not understanding what you mean here.

I'm being sarcastic. I agree with you. Double standard.


Interesting question to ask.... How long has Ford been using CTS pedals?

dorourke07

concealer404 wrote: »

Interesting question to ask.... How long has Ford been using CTS pedals?

In most cases the pedals/parts are built to client spec and requirements not a direct design of the individual part supplier. I assume Toyota's design and specs are different than Ford's, so the recall for Ford seemed premature. I wonder how many other companies use CTS. If its a supplier problem, not spec or design, will this be a GM, VW and other manufacturers problem in a few months.

concealer404

dorourke07 wrote: »

In most cases the pedals/parts are built to client spec and requirements not a direct design of the individual part supplier. I assume Toyota's design and specs are different than Ford's, so the recall for Ford seemed premature. I wonder how many other companies use CTS. If its a supplier problem, not spec or design, will this be a GM, VW and other manufacturers problem in a few months.

Yep, i agree in most cases.

I thought i read somewhere that it was in fact the same part, though... (I read it on the internet, it MUST be true)

wz2p7j

Hey you guys, thought I'd add my perspective. I used to work in quality at GM and, from my perspective, Toyota has long been getting a free pass.

For example, and it's been a while so my memory is bad, Toyota came out with some new model that immediately made Consumer Reports recommended list. Consumer Reports never tested the vehicle. When we questioned them about this, they responded that their prior experience with the brand earned the recommendation.

Then we came out with some new vehicle from the Oshawa plant, I think it was. At the time that plant was the highest ranked plant in some JD powers survey. Would the GM car be on the Consumers Reports recommended list? No - it hadn't been tested yet.

Plus I also worked on recalls for GM. We always stepped up when we had problems and took care of it. Took hits in the media for it. We long suspected Toyota was covering stuff up. With all the strict standards and such, no way Toyota was ever without fault, yeah right.

Anyway, sorry for my rant - bottom line is Toyota is no better than GM, Ford or Honda. And GM is no better than Toyota, Honda etc.

They are all pretty darn good car makers. It's the price of entry in this competitive market. All the car makers are pretty close. Make your decision based on price, design features, etc. But don't buy Toyota just because they supposedly have the best quality, because they don't.


Chris

wz2p7j

The other thing about the Toyota recall, is how quickly the blame was deflected to the component supplier. Ever seen that with a domestic recall??

Chris

concealer404

wz2p7j wrote: »

The other thing about the Toyota recall, is how quickly the blame was deflected to the component supplier. Ever seen that with a domestic recall??

Chris

Sure.

Ford/Firestone debacle?


But here's my take on it, and i read this recently, it applies nicely:

"They're all ****. Huge hunks of ****. Find the one that you hate the least to fix, and stick with it."

wz2p7j

That's a "flyer" Concealer and you know it. Tires have almost always been warranted by the tire manufacturer, not the automaker.

Chris

concealer404

wz2p7j wrote: »

That's a "flyer" Concealer and you know it. Tires have almost always been warranted by the tire manufacturer, not the automaker.

Chris

I'm just playing. I'm sure there's others out there, i'm just kindof done taking this thread seriously. My apologies.

But no, i guess to answer your question in a serious manner, i can't think of one. But it may be warranted. After all, the Denso parts aren't failing.

Speaking of failing pedals, did Mitsubishi ever address their plastic gas pedals in the Evo X that kept snapping? Aren't the CTS pedals in the Toyotas lasting through a lot of miles anyways? (not that it makes it ok for them to fail, just curious really)

dorourke07

wz2p7j wrote: »

For example, and it's been a while so my memory is bad, Toyota came out with some new model that immediately made Consumer Reports recommended list. Consumer Reports never tested the vehicle. When we questioned them about this, they responded that their prior experience with the brand earned the recommendation.Chris

Consumer reports just got burned on this. They pulled their buy recommendation for all of the Toyota vehicles and said they would need to test each model again. Toyota had an automatic recommendation even when they cars were no tested. I wonder if they will stop that practice.

dorourke07

concealer404 wrote: »

I thought i read somewhere that it was in fact the same part, though... (I read it on the internet, it MUST be true)

Everything on the internet isn't true????????:eek:

Roy Munson

Does anyone know of any documented accidents/deaths that were caused by Toyota's sticky gas pedal assembly or any documented cases of software related sudden acceleration problems that resulted in any deaths?

wz2p7j

Roy Munson wrote: »

Does anyone know of any documented accidents/deaths that were caused by Toyota's sticky gas pedal assembly or any documented cases of software related sudden acceleration problems that resulted in any deaths?

I thought I read there were 19 deaths :( associated with this. Can anyone confirm?

Chris

wz2p7j

Here's a link:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/engineering/article7007464.ece

Chris

Roy Munson

According to your link:

The US House of Representatives has announced an investigation into Toyota’s faulty accelerator pedals and other problems that may have caused 19 deaths over the past decade and triggered a global recall of nearly eight million vehicles.

It says MAY HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!

I have yet to see any documented evidence that says sticky pedals are the cause of any accidents or related deaths.

Just asking.

shawn474

Roy Munson wrote: »

According to your link:

The US House of Representatives has announced an investigation into Toyota’s faulty accelerator pedals and other problems that may have caused 19 deaths over the past decade and triggered a global recall of nearly eight million vehicles.

It says MAY HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!

I have yet to see any documented evidence that says sticky pedals are the cause of any accidents or related deaths.

Just asking.

All of the deaths that they quote are ALLEGED. A buddy of mine who happens to be a sales manager of a Chevrolet dealership told me that the group (I forget the name - Safety Measures something or other) that initially reported the statistics was affiliated with a law firm. It has been suggested that the statistics have been skewed to increase the amount of lawsuits - a win for the firm and for their clients. Basically, ambulance chasers. I am not saying they are or aren't - just stating both sides of the story.

wz2p7j

I used to work closely with the Field Product Evaluation group (recalls) at GM. If they're reporting "may have" you can safely assume there were that many and probably more. Just my experience.

Chris