Toyota shuts down production and halts sales

VR3

My good ol Ford F150 just clocked in 139,000 miles --- only issue would be two window regulator. But can't say my gas pedal is sticking...

mrbigbluelight

Tom Clancy. "Debt of Honor".

danger boy

people aren't buying many new cars right now anyway.. so what's the big deal? it's a temp shutdown right?

nooshinjohn

The recall has spread even further...globally!

http://www.comcast.net/articles/finance/20100127/Toyota.Recall/

Jstas

nooshinjohn wrote: »

The recall has spread even further...globally!

http://www.comcast.net/articles/finance/20100127/Toyota.Recall/

Check out post number 20...

polktiger

Back 15 to 20 years ago, didn't the advertising go...
Toyota: Quality is Job One

I guess installing a cable tie to the floor mat wasn't enough.

No worries the 80% of Americans that are mindless and totally oblivious to things not in People Magazine or on Entertainment Tonight will keep reciting the Toyota and Honda montra of Japanese cars rule and American cars are all sucky pieces of junk. They will probably even tell their friends what a great quality car they have, while it is in the shop having the cable tie removed and a new pedal assembly installed in the Corolla.

Jstas

polktiger wrote: »

Back 15 to 20 years ago, didn't the advertising go...
Toyota: Quality is Job One

I guess installing a cable tie to the floor mat wasn't enough.

No worries the 80% of Americans that are mindless and totally oblivious to things not in People Magazine or on Entertainment Tonight will keep reciting the Toyota and Honda montra of Japanese cars rule and American cars are all sucky pieces of junk. They will probably even tell their friends what a great quality car they have, while it is in the shop having the cable tie removed and a new pedal assembly installed in the Corolla.

Quality is Job 1 was Ford's slogan. Still is, actually.

polkatese

Is Lexus also affected? I haven't seen any recall listing for Lexus. Aren't they sharing the same design?

polktiger

Jstas wrote: »

Quality is Job 1 was Ford's slogan. Still is, actually.

My mistake

bigaudiofanatic

cnh wrote: »

I don't know. We have a Prius that was made in Japan...a friend of ours is driving it about once a week while we're away but it looks like he's killing the 12 volt battery--he's had to recharge it 3 times and the last time...it took 4-5 tries to charge..

Looks like that battery is shot...if I'm not mistaken this should have little to no effect on the 800lbs of nickel-hydride batteries under the rear seat..as they are recharged through (regenerative) braking and by the gas engine? At least I hope so. The problem is Maine in the winter....I doubt you can drive a hybrid 'once' a week for a couple of miles and not expect to KILL the battery!

Anyone have any experience with minimal hybrid driving in COLD climates....last year we were there so the car was charged almost every day.

Oh well.....not to high-jack the thread.

cnh

If you start looking around you will notice that battery's go in hybrids before they are suppose to. Also if you think your saving the world by driving a hybrid your wrong. By the time everything is shipped from making of the battery to final assembly the hybrid produced more pollution than my Honda civic in a year. Just food for thought.

bigaudiofanatic

polkatese wrote: »

Is Lexus also affected? I haven't seen any recall listing for Lexus. Aren't they sharing the same design?

I doubt it but you will probably be notified if it is.

polkatese

Didn't have a Lexus anymore, but I used to own ES300.

Jstas

Lexus vehicles are built in Japan and use a different supplier so they are not affected for the pedal assembly.

However, they were affected by the floor mat recall. Two different recalls right on top of each other. Both causing a similar problem of unintended acceleration and fiery death.

By the way, Toyota recalled another 1.1 million vehicles for the floor mat problem. The new models in question are:

* 2008-2010 Highlander
* 2009-2010 Corolla
* 2009-2010 Venza
* 2009-2010 Matrix
* 2009-2010 Pontiac Vibe

The increase means Toyota has recalled 5.35 million vehicles in the probe linked to pedal entrapment under floor mats. Toyota has agreed to repair or replace the pedals, replace the floor mats and in some cases will make software modifications and reshape the floor surface.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20100127/AUTO01/1270436/Toyota-to-recall-another-1.1M-vehicles#ixzz0dv2cEWsg


Add the 2.3 million cars recalled for the sticking accelerator issue and Toyota has recalled 7.65 million vehicles.

If you still think that won't hurt Toyota, it must be nice living in your fantasy world. Toyota has been on and off the ropes financially since about August '09, just like everybody else...except Ford and VW. This is a MAJOR cost blow to them and since all of these affected Toyotas are 0-5 years old, that is prime resale time for "certified pre-owned" and lease returns. There have been local news stories of Toyota dealers getting flooded with used cars and no buyers because of the recalls. A local GM dealer was on the news last night wondering how he was going to get rid of the influx of unwanted Toyotas already traded in. Granted he only has about 16 on his lot right now but with the incentives GM is offering, that has a very good chance of increasing.

tonyb

We are talking about a friggin' gas pedel here folks, not the engine failing,or the wheels falling off. Toyota makes a good car, no doubt, american cars still have quality controll problems. My aunt bought a new Caddy Escallade, not a cheap car, first week all the door handles fell off....door handles! She promptly marched back to the dealer and handed the car back.

Serendipity

Looks like more people will be turning to Ford, GM and even VW or BMW for upscale cars.

Serendipity

tonyb wrote: »

We are talking about a friggin' gas pedel here folks, not the engine failing,or the wheels falling off. Toyota makes a good car, no doubt, american cars still have quality controll problems. My aunt bought a new Caddy Escallade, not a cheap car, first week all the door handles fell off....door handles! She promptly marched back to the dealer and handed the car back.

But door handles can't kill you

Jstas

Serendipity wrote: »

But door handles can't kill you

Well, they can, if you can't open the doors after your gas pedal tries to kill you with fiery death and you can no longer exit the vehicle in a conventional manner.

Face

jstas wrote: »

well, they can, if you can't open the doors after your gas pedal tries to kill you with fiery death and you can no longer exit the vehicle in a conventional manner.

lol!!!

Jstas

tonyb wrote: »

We are talking about a friggin' gas pedel here folks, not the engine failing,or the wheels falling off. Toyota makes a good car, no doubt, american cars still have quality controll problems. My aunt bought a new Caddy Escallade, not a cheap car, first week all the door handles fell off....door handles! She promptly marched back to the dealer and handed the car back.

And floors mats that shift and move and break the mooring points put there so they don't shift and move aren't quality control issues? Neither are poorly designed bushings and engine management software?

C'mon, get real. Quality control isn't just about manufacturing processes. A product can be poorly designed and still assembled very well. But in reality, it's still a piece of junk, it's just a well put together piece of junk. QC is in every step from design to engineering to manufacturing. Toyota dropped the ball in the first two.

On top of that, there are actual deaths, that's deathS, plural, as in more than one, attributed directly to the issues in the recalls. In addition, Toyota has to recall about 80% of it's total vehicle production, company wide, around the globe, from the past 4 years. Add to that those other "quality issues" of pickup truck frames from the past 10 years rusting out from under the vehicles to the point where they break in half and 4 cylinder engines lunching their bearings after less than 30K miles because of sludging problems clogging up poorly design oil gallys and the whole idea that Toyota is focused on quality and making a "good car" is borderline laughable. They are no different than any other car maker and some are better than Toyota. The biggest issue is that Toyota denied the issue with the truck frames until the government stepped in and investigated. They are still in litigation over the engine sludging problem which they deny exists but I can tell you is absolutely 100% real from personal experience. The sticking throttle they denied and CONTINUED to build and sell the problem until the government said "You can't do that."

Sorry if you own a Toyota or Lexus or Scion and you feel like the world is coming down on your beloved Toyota but....well...actually, it is. Suck it up. Nobody said Toyota makes junk cars. I know I haven't. I've been very careful to just write what I've been reading so the typical characters don't try to discredit my argument through personal attacks as usual. If others formulate their own opinions, then great, that's the intent. Report the facts, let others think for themselves.

What I think has made this whole thing such a big deal is that so many people have been brainwashed in to thinking that Toyota is so much better and here they are, with an entire line-up of screwed up vehicles from the past 4 years. The ENTIRE line of cars they make is affected. That's a big deal and people are freaking out because what they know and claim as fact is being exposed as not so factual after all. That and it's not just...say...Toyota Camrys affected. It's every Toyota. Truck, car, SUV, whatever, it's affected. Heady stuff.

tonyb

Hell, anything can kill you, if you abuse it enough. If you have a sticky gas pedal, would not the first thing you do is apply the brakes and shift into neutral ? Part of the problem is the lack of education on the basics of driving a car. I remember that whole tape on that Lexus driver who's matt got caught under the pedal and called 9-11, then crashed and died. You have the time to make a phone call and no common sense on how to stop a run away car ? I admit manufacturers need to bear some responsibility, but we also need to re-think some basic teachings in driving school.

Personally, I think whenever you mass produce a product, design flaws and quality control issues are going to happen. Toyota has it's problems, but as a whole have been a pretty reliable car for decades.

Serendipity

tonyb wrote: »

Hell, anything can kill you, if you abuse it enough. If you have a sticky gas pedal, would not the first thing you do is apply the brakes and shift into neutral ? Part of the problem is the lack of education on the basics of driving a car. I remember that whole tape on that Lexus driver who's matt got caught under the pedal and called 9-11, then crashed and died. You have the time to make a phone call and no common sense on how to stop a run away car ? I admit manufacturers need to bear some responsibility, but we also need to re-think some basic teachings in driving school.

Some cars with the push button start require you to hold the button for 3+ seconds in the case of a stuck throttle, for example. And I know for a fact that my Maxima doesn't shift to neutral instantly until the transmission computer decides it is safe to do so.

Jstas

tonyb wrote: »

Hell, anything can kill you, if you abuse it enough. If you have a sticky gas pedal, would not the first thing you do is apply the brakes and shift into neutral ? Part of the problem is the lack of education on the basics of driving a car. I remember that whole tape on that Lexus driver who's matt got caught under the pedal and called 9-11, then crashed and died. You have the time to make a phone call and no common sense on how to stop a run away car ? I admit manufacturers need to bear some responsibility, but we also need to re-think some basic teachings in driving school.

Personally, I think whenever you mass produce a product, design flaws and quality control issues are going to happen. Toyota has it's problems, but as a whole have been a pretty reliable car for decades.

Obviously it's a lack of education. You are a perfect example. If you had read any of the articles that would have described to you the issues with your Toyota, you would know that your "conventional wisdom" and "common sense" do not apply here because of design "features" Toyota has employed to keep you safe from yourself. Aren't they so nice?

In the vehicles experiencing the throttle control issues, the drive train computer does not allow the operator of the vehicle to disengage the transmission while under open throttle. Furthermore, in the affected Toyotas, if the engine is under throttle, the engine management computer will not shutdown the ignition until the throttle is released. Emergency shutdown can occur but like what was said, one must remember to hold the start button down for several seconds while accelerating down the road to almost certain doom and in fear of their lives. Not exactly a calm and rational moment in one's life.

Lastly, if you had taken the time to read the articles about the death of the driver and his family, you would know that the 911 call was a last resort. The driver tried, unsuccessfully, for several minutes, to stop the rental car he was unfamiliar with. If anything can be blamed for common sense it's whatever lame reason Toyota has given for diverging from the industry standard that you believe is "common sense" and implementing an alternative system that is not intuitive.


And no, Toyota hasn't been making a reliable car for decades. If they were, there wouldn't be massive recalls for rusted frames, catastrophic engine lubrication problems, catastrophic transmission failures, sticking throttles, rogue floor mats...there's a laundry list from from just the past 10 years alone. If you go back farther to the 80's and 90's, you can find reports of government investigations in to cover ups and ignored federal calls for vehicle recalls. If they were making decent cars for decades, they wouldn't be dealing with this stuff now.

polkatese

I guess it's time to check out those pesky Rolls Royce Silver Shadow, to be on the safe side. You know, those hand-made cars.

Jstas

Just saw this:

AsSiMiLaTeD

Toyota sucks. I own Toyota. People who own Toyota are sheeple. I am sheeple.

tonyb

Jstas wrote: »

Obviously it's a lack of education. You are a perfect example. If you had read any of the articles that would have described to you the issues with your Toyota, you would know that your "conventional wisdom" and "common sense" do not apply here because of design "features" Toyota has employed to keep you safe from yourself. Aren't they so nice?

In the vehicles experiencing the throttle control issues, the drive train computer does not allow the operator of the vehicle to disengage the transmission while under open throttle. Furthermore, in the affected Toyotas, if the engine is under throttle, the engine management computer will not shutdown the ignition until the throttle is released. Emergency shutdown can occur but like what was said, one must remember to hold the start button down for several seconds while accelerating down the road to almost certain doom and in fear of their lives. Not exactly a calm and rational moment in one's life.

Lastly, if you had taken the time to read the articles about the death of the driver and his family, you would know that the 911 call was a last resort. The driver tried, unsuccessfully, for several minutes, to stop the rental car he was unfamiliar with. If anything can be blamed for common sense it's whatever lame reason Toyota has given for diverging from the industry standard that you believe is "common sense" and implementing an alternative system that is not intuitive.


And no, Toyota hasn't been making a reliable car for decades. If they were, there wouldn't be massive recalls for rusted frames, catastrophic engine lubrication problems, catastrophic transmission failures, sticking throttles, rogue floor mats...there's a laundry list from from just the past 10 years alone. If you go back farther to the 80's and 90's, you can find reports of government investigations in to cover ups and ignored federal calls for vehicle recalls. If they were making decent cars for decades, they wouldn't be dealing with this stuff now.

No,bubba, didn't read the article, my bad. But if it indeed is the case where the driver cannot shift the vehicle out of any gear at any given time during operation, is pathetic in my book. Would be interesting to see how many american cars have some sort of safety feature that may also do something like that. All in all though, I still disagree on the quality of toyota in general, but hey, you can have your opinion and me mine, no need to get huffy about it dude. Toyota dropped the ball on this one, but they are trying to right it, so whats the big deal ? I don't think it defines them as a bad car company at all. Which you clearly are trying to do btw. Given their history of dependability, against the history of american cars, I would say they come out on top. I agree they took a knock on the head here, but given the knocks american car companies have had over the years, doesn't compare.

shawn474

Jstas wrote: »

Obviously it's a lack of education. You are a perfect example. If you had read any of the articles that would have described to you the issues with your Toyota, you would know that your "conventional wisdom" and "common sense" do not apply here because of design "features" Toyota has employed to keep you safe from yourself. Aren't they so nice?

And no, Toyota hasn't been making a reliable car for decades. If they were, there wouldn't be massive recalls for rusted frames, catastrophic engine lubrication problems, catastrophic transmission failures, sticking throttles, rogue floor mats...there's a laundry list from from just the past 10 years alone. If you go back farther to the 80's and 90's, you can find reports of government investigations in to cover ups and ignored federal calls for vehicle recalls. If they were making decent cars for decades, they wouldn't be dealing with this stuff now.

We can all spin this any way you want. Toyota has made MORE reliable than Chevy or GM or any other brand (besides Honda) for a very long time. Quote anything you want - the fact remains that when you sell 3 or 4 times the volume, you will have more problems. It's the nature of statistics. If you think it will hurt them, that's fine. Only time will tell. EVERY, and I mean EVERY, car manufacturer has their share of problems and cover-ups. Audi had it, VW has had it, Chevy and Ford would have kept the American market if they didn't produce crap for a lot of years. The fact that they responded at all is a step in the right direction, whether it was "forced" or not.

You seem to have a grudge against anyone who buys a Toyota and considers it to be a good car. I don't currently own one, but have owned 4 Toyotas and would not hesitate to buy one again. I am not married to one auto manufacturer and it's up to the buyer to do the INDEPENDENT research. If Toyota loses customers over this, it is their fault alone. If they lose repeat customers, the same goes. But, I suspect, that once these issues are addressed their quality control will increase and as such probably produce another reliable and dependent car that people will like to own. YMMV

Jstas

tonyb wrote: »

No,bubba, didn't read the article, my bad. But if it indeed is the case where the driver cannot shift the vehicle out of any gear at any given time during operation, is pathetic in my book. Would be interesting to see how many american cars have some sort of safety feature that may also do something like that. All in all though, I still disagree on the quality of toyota in general, but hey, you can have your opinion and me mine, no need to get huffy about it dude. Toyota dropped the ball on this one, but they are trying to right it, so whats the big deal ? I don't think it defines them as a bad car company at all. Which you clearly are trying to do btw. Given their history of dependability, against the history of american cars, I would say they come out on top. I agree they took a knock on the head here, but given the knocks american car companies have had over the years, doesn't compare.

No, sport, I'm not trying to define them as a bad car company. Don't put words in my mouth. Does the info make them look like a bad car company? I decline to comment. But obviously, since you feel that it is and you are blaming me for it, maybe it is.

What's wrong with it all? You are forgiving Toyota for their transgressions by saying they are trying to make it right. They aren't. They tried to keep building and selling the faulty cars. The NHTSA told them to stop trying to do so until they fix the problem. Toyota wanted to sell you a Camry that has the potential to severely injure or kill you and possibly other people. But that's ok because Cadillac sold someone you know an Escalade where a door handle fell off. That someone you know didn't even give Cadillac the chance to fix it. They just returned it. Over a door handle. But you'll give Toyota a chance 'cause what's the possibility of death among chums, right?

Yeah, that dog don't hunt.

Face

shawn474 wrote: »

Quote anything you want - the fact remains that when you sell 3 or 4 times the volume, you will have more problems. It's the nature of statistics.

I'd LOVE to know where you found that statistic.

concealer404

I've never had one issue with any Toyota i've ever owned, nor has anyone in my immediate family. And that makes up for almost 50% of the ownership.

The Fords, Chevys, and Dodges were all epic pieces of ****.

People buy Toyotas for a reason. I don't think it's because they think they're terrible cars.

But i'm wrong. Because John thinks that Toyota is horrible.