Toyota shuts down production and halts sales

Jstas

And now, for some humor:

The daily Show:
<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com'>The Daily Show With Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'<a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-february-2-2010/toyotathon-of-death'>Toyotathon of Death<a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>www.thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:263343' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes'>Daily Show<br/> Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com'>Political Humor</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/videos/tag/health'>Health Care Crisis</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>


Letterman:
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Jstas

Fines now?

NHTSA mulling Toyota fines for delayed recall?

$16.4 million. That's the maximum amount the Department of Transportation (DOT) can fine an automaker for failing to recall a defective vehicle in a timely manner. And according to a recent report, the Feds could be pursuing a multimillion-dollar fine – the sum, yet to be disclosed – due to the Toyota recall.

The largest civil penalty ever imposed was handed down to General Motors when a windshield wiper on 581,344 SUVs wasn't dealt with in accordance to the DOT's regulations. Although no automaker has ever incurred the maximum penalty, judging by Secretary Ray LaHood's recent comments about Toyota's handling of the matter ("While Toyota is taking responsible action now, it unfortunately took an enormous effort to get to this point."), it's not so much a matter of when as it is how much.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/03/nhtsa-mulling-toyota-fines-for-delayed-recall/

Roy Munson

Isn't Ray Lahood the guy that suggested the government tax motorists based on how many miles they drive rather than how much gasoline they burn?

Lets see, he wants to tax people that drive gas saving economy cars more than folks that drive Suburbans and Hummers if they drive more miles!! lol I think this bozo has a screw loose.

Roy Munson

An interesting view on the recall hysteria:


Don't Count Out Toyota, Ever!

Japanese automaker's reputation will survive the recall.

Posted by Lawrence Ulrich on Wednesday, February 3, 2010 8:24 AM



A little perspective, please.

That’s my gut response to the near-hysteria caused by Toyota's recalls to address concerns over unintended acceleration.

Yes, the company's recall of 6.5 million cars -- 2.3 million for sticky accelerator pedals and an additional 4.2 million for pedal-grabbing floor mats -- are the automaker's nastiest black eye in memory. Worse, unintended acceleration is the ultimate headline-grabber, one of the scariest scenarios for any driver. The specter of a runaway car worries people far more than, say, the engine sludge buildup that affected some Toyotas in recent years.

But am I the only one who sees GM’s response to this issue as undignified, and the response of some Detroit media as self-serving and overblown? GM’s opportunistic response was to sweeten deals for Toyota owners who would trade in for a GM model. There’s a whiff of ambulance-chasing in that move, a desperation that's beneath this proud American automaker.
And to hear the nearly salivating analysis of some Detroit media cheerleaders, Toyota’s misstep somehow wipes the competitive slate clean -- as though Toyota’s well-earned, three-decade reputation for quality is suddenly shot. Or worse, that this episode proves that, say, a Chrysler Sebring is every bit as good as a Toyota Camry.

Don’t count on it. And don’t mistake this as an apologia for Toyota. The company screwed up, and any consumer with an affected model should get it fixed immediately. But without minimizing the issue, we are talking 19 alleged fatalities among roughly 20 million Toyotas sold here over the last 10 years. That’s roughly one death linked to the recall for every million cars Toyota has sold. That's small comfort for those victims, of course, but your lifetime odds of dying in a plane crash (1 in 6,137), a lightning strike (1 in 56,439) or an earthquake (1 in 120,161) are all vastly worse than your chances of dying in a runaway Toyota.

Contrast Toyota's 19 deaths with the roughly 250 fatalities linked to an exponentially smaller number of Ford Explorers equipped with defective Firestone tires a decade ago. When those old-school Explorers were flipping en masse, shining a spotlight on the dangers of SUV rollovers -- or when Ford pickups were spontaneously catching fire because of a faulty ignition switch, the recall Ford of which has dragged out for more than a decade -- you didn’t see Toyota trying to take advantage of the situation.

Whenever Detroit screwed up, which was often, Toyota and other Japanese manufacturers always refrained from piling on in public. In one way, that’s just smart business: Toyota, still a foreign company despite all of its made-in-America cars and domestic dealerships, doesn’t want be be seen as anti-patriotic or overly aggressive.

But if Detroit wants to have a public debate on whose cars are the most reliable -- whether 20 years ago, 10 years ago or today -- Toyota would be happy to oblige.

To Detroit's credit, there's no question that Ford, GM and, to a lesser extent, Chrysler have narrowed the once-huge quality gap between American and Japanese cars. By any statistical measure, Detroit is cranking out many top-quality models, from Fords that earn Consumer Reports’ coveted “recommended” rating, to Buicks whose reliability rivals that of Lexus. But those same statistical measures show that Toyota and Lexus remain the world’s most defect-free cars, period. The recall doesn’t change that. And consumers, I think, are smart enough to figure it out.

The clear message from Detroit, which strikes me as wishful thinking, is that Toyota customers will walk away from the brand they’ve known and trusted, and buy a Big Three product instead. And in a brutally competitive industry, I guess you do whatever it takes to lure buyers to your own products.

But while Toyota’s top executives have acknowledged that it needs to refocus on quality, the recall won’t necessarily ding Toyota’s sterling reputation in the long term.

As long as the public decides that Toyota is responding quickly and transparently to these recalls, rather than dragging its feet or evading responsibility, I can't envision any long-term exodus from the brand. Toyota sales dipped 16 percent in January, but that's largely due to Toyota halting production to address the recall. As Toyota gets its best-selling models back into dealerships, those sales should balance out.

Yes, a family that has bought three Toyotas in a row, and been thoroughly satisfied, may now be a bit more likely to check out the competition. But that same family isn’t going to suddenly ditch a Toyota brand that’s had their back for years and proved its worth with often bulletproof reliability.

As ever, if Detroit wants people to buy its cars and rebuild their trust, it needs to take care of its own business -- and stop minding Toyota’s.


http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/print.aspx?post=1601094

nooshinjohn

^^^I would expect such an article from MSN. They are so anti-American that I would not be suprised to learn they are owned by chairman Mao...

Toyota today admitted they KNEW about problems with it's Prius model and are still trying to figure out the "best way" to tell folks the braking system is no good... Says in the article that they knew since late January, but is that of 2010, 2009, 2008, or even longer???

http://www.comcast.net/articles/finance/20100202/Toyota.Recall/

Amherst

Roy Munson wrote: »

But am I the only one who sees GM’s response to this issue as undignified, and the response of some Detroit media as self-serving and overblown? GM’s opportunistic response was to sweeten deals for Toyota owners who would trade in for a GM model. There’s a whiff of ambulance-chasing in that move, a desperation that's beneath this proud American automaker.

Where were you when foreign automakers pulled the same tactics on US automakers?

I say an eye for an eye. It's our turn.

Amherst

Roy Munson wrote: »

As long as the public decides that Toyota is responding quickly and transparently to these recalls, rather than dragging its feet or evading responsibility, I can't envision any long-term exodus from the brand.

Too Late.

concealer404

Amherst wrote: »

Where were you when foreign automakers pulled the same tactics on US automakers?

I say an eye for an eye. It's our turn.

I must have missed that, too... not sure where i was.

Jstas

concealer404 wrote: »

I must have missed that, too... not sure where i was.

A twinkle in your daddy's eye, that's where.

nooshinjohn

I seem to remember Toyota, Honda, and Nissan(Datsun for you old farts) openly attacking GM, Ford and Chrysler in their advertising in the mid 70's and all through the 80's while business law in the U.S. prohibited such conduct as being unfair. The reason for the disparity was that the Japanese had not begun U.S. manufacturing yet. Once they became U.S. manufacturers, those practices ceased.

Jstas

More news, now the Prius is under investigation by the Feds for brake problems

From Jalopnik...

Toyota Admits Prius Brake "Software" Problem, Not Because Of The Woz

Oi, where to start this morning? You know those 2010 Prius brake problems? Toyota learned its lesson and is willing to cop to a design problem. Will there be a recall? Did Woz doom or save Toyota? UPDATE!

As you'll remember, Steve Wozniak's Prius has been in the spotlight since he complained about cruise control. The issue with the brakes came from the Japanese, though there was a similar issue on this side of the Pacific.

Toyota admits there's a problem and, oh Lord, it's a software issue. There's a "disconnect" in the ABS and it'll lag one second before it starts braking. Fortunately, Toyota changed the software in January so new Prius hybrids don't have the problem. But what about the old ones? Normally, the software update would probably be made at the dealer when the car comes in for routine service without a recall. This time? It's possible they may have to recall the cars.

And Woz? We've been on top of this story all week and, while Wozniak has a cruise control issue (and it may just be his misunderstanding of how it works, we don't know), he keeps popping up in stories this morning about the Prius blaming the "software" on the other issue as an expert on car software. He is not.

The guy is unfortunately charismatic so expect to see more stories with him talking about software. We're so glad Steve Jobs drives a Mercedes.

UPDATE: Yep, the Department of Transportation is opening up a new investigation into Prius brake problems. Ugh...

http://jalopnik.com/5464094/toyota-admits-prius-brake-software-problem-not-because-of-the-woz



I don't know what to call all of this. At first "ThrottleGate" was good because of all the pedal problems. But now that the Prius is involved for brake issues which could also cause fiery death, I think "Toyotathon...of death" is more appropriate.

Oh and the 19 deaths aren't "alleged". They are real. They are under investigation and part of a greater investigation so the verdict won't be official until the investigation is complete. That is the only reason that they are "alleged". It's the whole innocent until proven guilty thing.

Face

jstas wrote: »

"toyotathon...of death"

lol!

Jstas

Saw this article on "The Truth About Cars" on the CTS and Denso pedal assemblies.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/exclusive-ttac-takes-apart-both-toyota-gas-pedals/

It's a good, informative read, worth the time.

They have a whole series on this and they ask many more questions than anyone else so far.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/ttacs-complete-guide-to-toyotas-gas-pedals-teardown-pictures-toyotas-fix-analysis-commentary/

It's worth the read and probably better than any other link posted so far.




Also, LA Times ran a story stating that the pedal maker says it's assembly is not faulty.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-pedal30-2010jan30,0,4401302.story

From The LA Times...

Doubt Cast on Toyota's Decision to Blame Sudden Acceleration on Gas Pedal Defect

The pedal maker denies that its products are at fault. Some independent safety experts also are skeptical of Toyota's explanations. 'We know this recall is a red herring,' one says.


By Ralph Vartabedian and Ken Bensinger
January 30, 2010

Toyota Motor Corp.'s decision to blame its widening sudden-acceleration problem on a gas pedal defect came under attack Friday, with the pedal manufacturer flatly denying that its products were at fault.

Federal vehicle safety records reviewed by The Times also cast doubt on Toyota's claims that sticky gas pedals were a significant factor in the growing reports of runaway vehicles. Of more than 2,000 motorist complaints of sudden acceleration in Toyota and Lexus vehicles over the last decade, just 5% blamed a sticking gas pedal, the analysis found.

What's more, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has conducted eight investigations into sudden-acceleration problems in Toyota vehicles over the last seven years, none of which identified a sticking pedal as a potential cause...

Roy Munson

Some interesting info on the crash in Southlake Dallas/Fort Worth.

You might recall the incident in which a Toyota Avalon went out of control and crashed into a pond killing all four passengers that was picked up and reported by the national media.

The media left out several important facts that has led many to believe that this accident and the four resulting deaths was caused by sudden acceleration. Left out was the fact that the driver had epilepsy and that an eye witness reported seeing no one at the controls of the car just before entering the pond!

While the police have concluded that the cause of the accident is "inconclusive" I think that it's obvious that something other than SUA or a sticky accelerator was the actual cause.

I don't know about other places but where I live people that have epilepsy can't get a drives license for obvious reasons.

I think it's safe to say that four of the reported deaths can now be removed from the list of people alleged to have been killed by out of control Toyotas. I wonder how many more there will be?

Just saying.

Probe of fatal Toyota crash in Southlake 'inconclusive'

by JASON WHITELY / WFAA-TV

Posted on January 27, 2010 at 4:20 PM

Updated Thursday, Jan 28 at 9:03 AM


SOUTHLAKE — Neighbors heard the noise, but only one person witnessed what happened last month when a blue Toyota Avalon raced through a stop sign at more than 45 mph, blasted through a pipe fence, and overturned in a pond six feet deep at Lonesome Dove Road and Burney Lane.

"She did not see a driver behind the wheel just before it crashed," the investigator wrote after interviewing the woman who saw the accident.

Details of that deadly December day make up Southlake Police Department's 87-page report obtained by News 8 on Wednesday.

Two witnesses went in first, followed by police, the report stated. It was the property owner along with a kayaker who happened to be driving by.

The kayaker's wife, a competitive swimmer, eventually dove in as well to help police.

The water wasn't just murky, it was also cold as the temperature that day was 43 degrees.

Rescuers could only locate two people: Monty Hardy, the driver and Hadassah Vance, a backseat passenger.

Only later would they learn two more were also trapped: Passengers Sharon Ransom and Wendy Akion. All four Jehovah's Witnesses were driving through Southlake conducting ministerial work.

The Tarrant County Medical Examiner ruled that all four victims drowned.

Mrs. Hardy told investigators that her husband has epilepsy, but doctors recently prescribed him a new medicine. Doctors assured them it was still safe for Mr. Hardy to drive, she added.

Mrs. Hardy then shared something else.

Her husband loved his Toyota Avalon but "the only problem he had was that the accelerator would stick."

Plus, "they had received a recall notice on the Toyota ... for an acceleration problem," she continued.

The report never concludes what definitively caused the wreck -- whether it be a medical condition or a mechancial malfunction.

E-mail jwhitely@wfaa.com

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Probe-of-fatal-Toyota-crash-in-Southlake-inconclusive-82829872.html

concealer404

Oh, come on... SURELY the driver was leaning down, trying to unstick the pedal with their hands! The car HAD to be at fault.

Roy Munson

You're right, the car is ALWAYS at fault just ask those Audi owners that claimed to have out of control cars!

srctoronto

nooshinjohn wrote: »

In the news... Toyota's U.S. operations grind to a halt.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sc-biz-0127-toyota--20100126,0,3712375.story


My question is what do you guys think of the move and do you think this will help improve the sales of GM/Ford/Chrysler?

Of course that was the US government idea. The whole media circus was about US protectionism. Ford, GM.....etc.....have a far worse track record.

Roy Munson

I can only hope that WFAA TV isn't an anti-American Communist run news station! :rolleyes: lol

wz2p7j

srctoronto wrote: »

Of course that was the US government idea. The whole media circus was about US protectionism. Ford, GM.....etc.....have a far worse track record.

Not "have a far worse track record," "HAD a far worse track record" You're living in the past, my friend.

Chris

shawn474

Roy Munson wrote: »

Some interesting info on the crash in Southlake Dallas/Fort Worth.

You might recall the incident in which a Toyota Avalon went out of control and crashed into a pond killing all four passengers that was picked up and reported by the national media.

The media left out several important facts that has led many to believe that this accident and the four resulting deaths was caused by sudden acceleration. Left out was the fact that the driver had epilepsy and that an eye witness reported seeing no one at the controls of the car just before entering the pond!

While the police have concluded that the cause of the accident is "inconclusive" I think that it's obvious that something other than SUA or a sticky accelerator was the actual cause.

I don't know about other places but where I live people that have epilepsy can't get a drives license for obvious reasons.

I think it's safe to say that four of the reported deaths can now be removed from the list of people alleged to have been killed by out of control Toyotas. I wonder how many more there will be?

Just saying.





http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Probe-of-fatal-Toyota-crash-in-Southlake-inconclusive-82829872.html

Interesting!

AsSiMiLaTeD

wz2p7j wrote: »

Not "have a far worse track record," "HAD a far worse track record" You're living in the past, my friend.

Chris

zzzzt....wrong!

Maybe it's semantics, but a track record is just that, a record of what you've done. Well guess what, all those crappy vehicles that the big 3 made that were in the past, they're still on their record, and will be from now until the end of time.

Whether or not you choose to ignore things after a certain number of years or not is debatable, and is ultimately your choice, but the fact that it happened cannot be erased.

I personally believe that's it's time to forgive the past and move on, and I'm glad to see that Ford is doing it right.

All you Toyota haters out there think about this though: Where would we be today without a company like Toyota stepping up and raising the bar? Nobody in their right mind is going to argue that the production methods and quality that Toyota brought to the table changed the automaking industry and forced the other car companies out there to start making a quality product.

I suggest some of you pick up "The Machine That Changed The World" and give it a read. Grab the newest version (wanna say 2007) as there is some good information added about how some of the concepts that Toyota used were actually created by Henry Ford and actually some other good information about the current state of Toyota and basically predicts this whole thing to a degree.

That book is not written by a bunch of Japanese businessmen or some crackpot journalist, it's written by a panel of guys who were part of a 5 year, 14 country international motor study conducted by MIT. These guys know their ****. And before someone starts bashing it without reading it, they don't blow smoke up Toyota's **** the whole time either, they call it like it is, and as I mentioned actually talked about the dangers of producing in the quantities that Toyota has and basically predicted this whole mess they're in now.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743299795/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0060974176&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1XD5PNM448ARQB0DZ8SF

Ron-P

A couple of accidents, a few deaths vrs millions of cars sold, the media never ceases to mezmerize the general public.

Maybe, just maybe if people learned to drive better. Imagine what that would do.....

wz2p7j

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

zzzzt....wrong!

Maybe it's semantics, but a track record is just that, a record of what you've done. Well guess what, all those crappy vehicles that the big 3 made that were in the past, they're still on their record, and will be from now until the end of time.

Whether or not you choose to ignore things after a certain number of years or not is debatable, and is ultimately your choice, but the fact that it happened cannot be erased.

I personally believe that's it's time to forgive the past and move on, and I'm glad to see that Ford is doing it right.

All you Toyota haters out there think about this though: Where would we be today without a company like Toyota stepping up and raising the bar? Nobody in their right mind is going to argue that the production methods and quality that Toyota brought to the table changed the automaking industry and forced the other car companies out there to start making a quality product.

I suggest some of you pick up "The Machine That Changed The World" and give it a read. Grab the newest version (wanna say 2007) as there is some good information added about how some of the concepts that Toyota used were actually created by Henry Ford and actually some other good information about the current state of Toyota and basically predicts this whole thing to a degree.

That book is not written by a bunch of Japanese businessmen or some crackpot journalist, it's written by a panel of guys who were part of a 5 year, 14 country international motor study conducted by MIT. These guys know their ****. And before someone starts bashing it without reading it, they don't blow smoke up Toyota's **** the whole time either, they call it like it is, and as I mentioned actually talked about the dangers of producing in the quantities that Toyota has and basically predicted this whole mess they're in now.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743299795/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0060974176&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1XD5PNM448ARQB0DZ8SF

My point was the recent track record for the domestics is much better than the past record.

If you want to dredge up ancient history, read up on Toyotas initial forays into this country. Talk about real junk!! I mean, it was pathetic.

Toyota has now majorly screwed their reputation much like GM did with the Corvair in the 60's. Toyota has long been given a free pass by the media and Consumer Reports and their tru colors are now showing thru. LOL

Chris

Ron-P

wz2p7j wrote: »

Toyota has now majorly screwed their reputation much like GM did with the Corvair in the 60's.

Chris

No they haven't

AsSiMiLaTeD

wz2p7j wrote: »

My point was the recent track record for the domestics is much better than the past record.

If you want to dredge up ancient history, read up on Toyotas initial forays into this country. Talk about real junk!! I mean, it was pathetic.

Toyota has now majorly screwed their reputation much like GM did with the Corvair in the 60's. Toyota has long been given a free pass by the media and Consumer Reports and their tru colors are now showing thru. LOL

Chris

Ya didn't really address any of my points, so why bother quoting the whole thing? I'm not for just looking at ancient history, hence my statement of "I personally believe that's it's time to forgive the past and move on, and I'm glad to see that Ford is doing it right."

wz2p7j

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

Ya didn't really address any of my points, so why bother quoting the whole thing? I'm not for just looking at ancient history, hence my statement of "I personally believe that's it's time to forgive the past and move on, and I'm glad to see that Ford is doing it right."

There's not a button that says "quote certain parts??" :)

Sorry, I was lazy and just quoted the whole darn thing

Chrius

nooshinjohn

wz2p7j wrote: »

My point was the recent track record for the domestics is much better than the past record.

If you want to dredge up ancient history, read up on Toyotas initial forays into this country. Talk about real junk!! I mean, it was pathetic.

Toyota has now majorly screwed their reputation much like GM did with the Corvair in the 60's. Toyota has long been given a free pass by the media and Consumer Reports and their tru colors are now showing thru. LOL

Chris

The Corvair was as much a staged fiasco as the gas tanks exploding on GM trucks....

treitz3

I think this thread needs a little bit more of this.........;)

nooshinjohn

... nice airbags. Does she come with rollover protection? I hope there is no stickshift.:eek:

Face