09/09/09 The Beatles

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  • Norm Apter
    Norm Apter Posts: 1,036
    edited October 2009
    comfortablycurt wrote: »
    I picked up the remastered Rubber Soul earlier today! This is the first of the remasters that I've gotten.

    I haven't had a chance to sit down and intently listen to the whole thing, but the songs that I have listened to were sounding excellent!! The bass is a lot more prominent in the mix...and has a very nice snarl to it. The drums sound splendidly tight and natural, and can really be placed easily within the soundstage. The vocals are also a lot clearer, crisper...more REAL sounding.

    I can't wait to sit down and intently listen to it all the way through tomorrow. If the rest sounds as good as the tracks I've already listened to, it should be great!!

    I'm definitely going to be picking up the stereo box set before too much longer. I'm tossing around the idea of picking up a mono box set eventually too...but I don't know yet...

    Good call, Curt. I didn't pick up the stereo box, but got every individual stereo remaster from Rubber Soul on. I have always felt that the Beatles underwent a major transformation in 1965 and, for me, the first stuff that I've really liked has begun with Rubber Soul.

    That said, now that I'm hearing the earlier albums for the first time, though, I'm starting to see ealier signs of the transition. In particular, on the previous album, Help!, I think "Ticket to Ride" has a heft to it that separates it from much of their earlier stuff. And even their earlier rendition of "Twist and Shout" is pretty heavy. So it seems that there was more of an evolution than I had previously thought. The crazy thing is that these guys only produced albums during a 9-year span...listen to Please, Please Me and then pop Abbey Road in and its just amazing how far they evolved.

    And, finally, yes these remasters really highlight how good of a drummer Ringo was (which we really can't tell from the previous masters). The interesting thing is that during the recording of "The Beatles" (White Album) Paul would come into Abbey Road studio and lay drum tracks down over Ringo's. Supposedly, Ringo had made some remark about being the best drummer in the world (though that doesn't sound like Ringo to me) and Paul retorted, "****...The best drummer in the world? He's not even the best drummer in the Beatles"
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  • Norm Apter
    Norm Apter Posts: 1,036
    edited October 2009
    I thought I'd post a few shots for those who haven't seen the set. I think they've done a fantastic job making the cover, sleeve, liner, outside plastic wrap and CD all look like just like a miniature LP and its accoutrements to scale. I believe these were hand-assembled in Japan...


    IMG_0839.jpg
    IMG_0844.jpg
    IMG_0849.jpg
    IMG_0850.jpg
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  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited October 2009
    Norm-Nice pics. These remasters are really packaged very well. I was pretty impressed with how Rubber Soul was packed.

    I agree with you somewhat about the earlier Beatles. I'm not that big of a fan of the pre-Rubber Soul Beatles...some good songs in there still, but in general it's not as appealing to me as the later Beatles. I still want to get the box set though, just so I have the whole collection.


    On another note...I just finished listening to the remastered Rubber Soul. It was on my computer speakers, which is a half decent Boston Acoustics sub/sat setup...but nothing special. It still sounded fantastic though! I can't wait to get some real listening in on it with my main rig tomorrow!
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited October 2009
    Thanks for the pics Norm. :)

    Can't wait to get mine.:mad:
    Michael ;)
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  • Norm Apter
    Norm Apter Posts: 1,036
    edited October 2009
    janmike wrote: »
    Thanks for the pics Norm. :)

    Can't wait to get mine.:mad:

    Man, I know you've been waiting a long time.

    And waiting, especially for something like this, sucks. But just know that no matter how much you've heard others describe them, you WILL be blown away. So it will very much be worth the wait. Not to mention through that rig of your's. Man, I wish I lived in your town so I could drop by to hear them on your system.
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited October 2009
    Norm Apter wrote: »
    Man, I know you've been waiting a long time.

    And waiting, especially for something like this, sucks. But just know that no matter how much you've heard others describe them, you WILL be blown away. So it will very much be worth the wait. Not to mention through that rig of your's. Man, I wish I lived in your town so I could drop by to hear them on your system.

    Thanks Norm. Yes, the wait thing is killing me. Oh well, I have patience. If it is not here by Christmas then I will be really ticked off.

    I wish I had a few people around to come over and listen as well. Some of the people that have come over do not really appreciate quality. No matter, I purchased everything for my ears. It would be really nice to have others listen to make suggestions.
    Michael ;)
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited October 2009
    if I can hitch a ride with a truck headed for the "ice" road I will visit your igloo, please reinforce the ice hut for me, thanks, I can sleep with the dog pack as long as they understand I am the new Alpha Male.

    Fact is guys, Michael traveled from Yellowknife Canada to Brunswick Ga. for PF07, he bagged the travel and international polke awards.

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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited October 2009
    And it was one hell of a time with a great bunch of people. Too bad I won't be there this time around, but there will be others.
    Michael ;)
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  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited October 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    It was originally going to be a limited edition of 10,000. Since they sold out before the release, EMI has made more, a lot more.
    Thank god, that small amount scared me so much, I tought I'd never be able to put my hands on a set. Great thing they decided to make a few more :cool:

    Janmike, long wait but once you get them you will enjoy your music even more ;)

    Cheers!
    TK
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited October 2009
    janmike wrote: »
    Thanks Norm. Yes, the wait thing is killing me. Oh well, I have patience. If it is not here by Christmas then I will be really ticked off.

    What did you order, and from who? I ordered the mono set from Amazon 2 weeks ago and received it Tuesday.
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  • everpress
    everpress Posts: 862
    edited October 2009
    jazzloft.com is taking orders for Mono box sets and will have them in next week... They send me daily updates on their stuff; I'm not otherwise affiliated.

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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited October 2009
    BlueFox wrote: »
    What did you order, and from who? I ordered the mono set from Amazon 2 weeks ago and received it Tuesday.

    I ordered the stereo box set from Amazon.ca. Go figure.
    Michael ;)
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,722
    edited October 2009
    Thanks to the generosity of a certain forum member (I'll let him reveal himself if he wants) I now have copies of the mono box set to compare to the stereo box set.

    With that said, I decided to compare Peppers first. I put in the mono version, pressed play and didn't get beyond the first song as it was basically unlistenable. It sounded as though I was listening inside of a tunnel to music that was at the opposite end.

    Next, I played the mono version of Rubber Soul, Drive My Car. This sounded pretty good with the vocals nicely centered and the soundstage wasn't too bad for mono. I then played the stereo version on the mono issue (yes, this CD has both mono and stereo versions of every song) and thought, gee, the stereo only version didn't sound like this. Very hard panning left and right and it seemed to lack life as in one dimensional. Ok, next up was the stereo only version. Ah, much better than the stereo version on the mono disc. The panning is still there, but not as severe as the stereo-mono version and it has life to it. I liked the mono cut as the vocals were centered, but I liked the stereo only version as it has more life to it. Too bad they didn't correct George Martin's piss poor mastering (excessive panning) of the stereo only version as it would be the clear winner.

    That's all I've listened to so far, more to come.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited October 2009
    The stereo version on the end of Rubber Soul and Help! are the original 1965 stereo mixes. They were really bad. In 1987 when they released the cd's, George Martin remixed those two albums, so the original cd versions of those two albums were not the original mix. They were included with the mono box set just to make the collection complete. Remember that George Martin didn't do the original stereo mixes back in the day. George did the mono mixes with the band, and then other engineers did the stereo versions. But Help! and Rubber Soul I guess were particularly bad enough the Sir George did the remixes for the original cd release.

    Listen to more of Sgt. Pepper. The White Album is particularly good as well. The stereo versions are a bit hotter, so tough to a/b without adjusting the volume up and down.

    Did you check out any of the ballads, like If I Fell or Yesterday? Listen to how much cleaner the vocals are in mono.
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited October 2009
    nspindel wrote: »
    Did you check out any of the ballads, like If I Fell or Yesterday? Listen to how much cleaner the vocals are in mono.


    I was amazed at how Eleanor Rigby sounded in mono. On the other hand, after listening to most of the mono CDs, I am reminded why I am more of a Rolling Stones fan. ;)
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,722
    edited October 2009
    Listen to more of Sgt. Pepper. The White Album is particularly good as well. The stereo versions are a bit hotter, so tough to a/b without adjusting the volume up and down.

    Did you check out any of the ballads, like If I Fell or Yesterday? Listen to how much cleaner the vocals are in mono.

    I A/B'd disc 2 of the White album, the stereo version wins, hands down. I compared If I Fell and I agree that the vocals on the mono are cleaner, but the song is flat compared to the stereo. My office pre amp has a mono/stereo switch, which I used on the stereo disc. I really couldn't tell a different between the mono disc and the stereo disc played in mono. The vocals were cleaner on the stereo disc played in mono.

    I'm having fun. :)
    Political Correctness'.........defined

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  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited October 2009
    Well...I've listened to Rubber Soul all the way through on the main rig a few times now...and A/B'd it with the original CD. This remaster was done VERY WELL!!!

    The drums and the bass are so much tighter and cleaner sounding...and far more forward in the mix. The bass actually has that growl that it should have had to begin with. The vocals are WAAAY better...I'm hearing vocal harmonies I've never even noticed before.

    I also picked up Let It Be earlier today. Another excellent sounding remaster!


    It's gonna be hard to stop myself from just buying them all individually. I'm trying to save up for the box set...but I may just end up getting them all separately.

    Am I really missing out on anything by getting them individually, rather than getting the box set?
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,455
    edited October 2009
    BlueFox wrote: »
    I am reminded why I am more of a Rolling Stones fan. ;)

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,722
    edited October 2009
    Am I really missing out on anything by getting them individually, rather than getting the box set?

    The box.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited October 2009
    You might save some money as well. Just a guess.
    Michael ;)
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  • Norm Apter
    Norm Apter Posts: 1,036
    edited October 2009
    BlueFox wrote: »
    On the other hand, after listening to most of the mono CDs, I am reminded why I am more of a Rolling Stones fan. ;)

    Different strokes...but IMO this clip demonstrates that the Beatles were so much better:

    Stones vs. Beatles: I Wanna Be Your Man
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  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited November 2009
    comfortablycurt wrote: »
    ...

    It's gonna be hard to stop myself from just buying them all individually. I'm trying to save up for the box set...but I may just end up getting them all separately.

    Am I really missing out on anything by getting them individually, rather than getting the box set?

    I bought them separately (stereo) and I didn't have any of the little liner sleeves like in the image below, so that might be the other bonus.
    Norm Apter wrote: »
    IMG_0849.jpg
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited November 2009
    mmadden28 wrote: »
    I bought them separately (stereo) and I didn't have any of the little liner sleeves like in the image below, so that might be the other bonus.

    I believe the image above is the mono version, not sold individually.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited November 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    I A/B'd disc 2 of the White album, the stereo version wins, hands down. I compared If I Fell and I agree that the vocals on the mono are cleaner, but the song is flat compared to the stereo. My office pre amp has a mono/stereo switch, which I used on the stereo disc. I really couldn't tell a different between the mono disc and the stereo disc played in mono. The vocals were cleaner on the stereo disc played in mono.

    I'm having fun. :)

    Thing is, I agree with you that in many cases the mono versions do sound flat compared to the stereo versions. But that's not necessarily because of the mono vs. stereo mix. It's because they did much more work remastering the stereo version to sound "better", whereas the mono versions they mostly left alone. There's a lot of eq and and gain (the evil limiting and compression words, although I do believe they left dynamics intact) adjustments in the stereo version that really make them shine. The mono versions were intended for the purists who have always wanted them for historical completeness. I wish they had done more work on the mono versions, and made them sparkle more like they did on the stereo versions. Then maybe they could have put them out like Help! and Rubber Soul, where there were two versions per disc, one touched up and the other not. Then they could have put the '65 stereo mixes of Help! and Rubber Soul on the stereo cd's instead of the mono. Oh well....

    Might be an interesting project to play with the mono versions in a wave editor and see what we can come up with....
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  • beardog03
    beardog03 Posts: 5,550
    edited November 2009
    Show`s how out of touch i have been..

    I just got an ad from Musicdirect.com for the mono set, and sent Jesse a link thinking I was showing him somethin good !!!

    After reading this thread, I am not sue that the mono box set is the way to go

    After reading about the A/B that jesse has been doing with stereo and mono, I just don`t know which way to go

    If I can even get them anymore !!
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited November 2009
    Thing is, I don't know that I'd recommend the mono set to anyone as their only purchase. If you're only buying one set, I'd have to recommend buying the stereo. The mono to me is an important supplement. It's important from a completeness standpoint, and the a/b's are fun. But if you can only swing one of the two sets, go with the stereo.
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  • beardog03
    beardog03 Posts: 5,550
    edited November 2009
    good point
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  • Norm Apter
    Norm Apter Posts: 1,036
    edited November 2009
    nspindel wrote: »
    Thing is, I don't know that I'd recommend the mono set to anyone as their only purchase. If you're only buying one set, I'd have to recommend buying the stereo. The mono to me is an important supplement. It's important from a completeness standpoint, and the a/b's are fun. But if you can only swing one of the two sets, go with the stereo.

    I agree. If you can only swing one set, stereo might be better. However, since the Monos are not available for individual purchase, I still think the mono set is a good purchase as there is some stuff on there that I prefer to the stereo versions I have. My general feeling is that the earlier stuff tends to sound great in mono, the mid period is a mixed bag -- some songs sound better in mono and some in stereo and later stuff (Sgt. Peppers, MMT and White Album) probably gives the edge to stereo, but some individual mono songs are great as well). Thus funds permitting, I think getting the mono box along with select individual stereo albums (in addition to Abbey Road and Let it BE) is not a bad way to go if you really are into enjoying the best of both worlds and can swing it financially.

    Nspindel, I think your earlier assessment is good: the stereo is like Beatles in Hi-def. And the nuances of the music are brought out with greater clarity in stereo. But some Monos can offer a much ballsier presentation, and sometimes its just what the doctor ordered. (Ticket to Ride still blows me away in mono). And yes to do A/Bs you do need to adjust the volume control. But the great thing about these is that there is no loudness issue so you can crank it on the monos without any ill effect...in fact, the louder the better with those.
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  • TECHNOKID
    TECHNOKID Posts: 4,298
    edited November 2009
    nspindel wrote: »
    Thing is, I don't know that I'd recommend the mono set to anyone as their only purchase. If you're only buying one set, I'd have to recommend buying the stereo. The mono to me is an important supplement. It's important from a completeness standpoint, and the a/b's are fun. But if you can only swing one of the two sets, go with the stereo.
    I have to disagree with you as it depens what you are looking for. If you are really looking for the true Beatles, the mono set is the way to go. If you are looking for copies of what the Beatles were, then the stereo is fine. Everyone's spending good $$$ for their system to reflect reality of live as much as possible. Considering this, I am somewhat puzzled that the same people would prefer some kind of modern re-mastered version of this group ratter than their real stuff as we have to agree Beatles reality was and still is mono.

    janmike

    Originally Posted by BlueFox
    What did you order, and from who? I ordered the mono set from Amazon 2 weeks ago and received it Tuesday.
    I ordered the stereo box set from Amazon.ca. Go figure.
    Well, I sure hope amazon woke-up and sent them to you. The stereo set isn't a limited version that I know of, still available all over the place (my local COSTCO had a full skid of that stuff available this weekend). Hope you get them soon.

    Ceers!
    TK
    DARE TO SOAR:
    “Your attitude, almost always determine your altitude in life” ;)
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,722
    edited November 2009
    Everyone's spending good $$$ for their system to reflect reality of live as much as possible.

    Live isn't in mono.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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