Studies On Residential Power Line Noise - Part 8: Audio Grade Fuses For Home Theater

madmax

ViperZ wrote: »

If you want to insult yourself, feel free, but don't insult the smart people. I am an EE and I don't own bose.

Its a good thing we have a smart person here.
madmax

heiney9

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

hehehehehe,,,,,,,,,,you guys OK I am in.

The bobman has never purported his self as adding much of anything with substansive value regarding audio to our little world and rarely visits our two-channel haven, preferring it seems to propogate his thought in social commentary around the board. So it is somewhat interesting to see him enter the thread and demonstration of elemental motiviational concept theory.

However I must say, he has pretty much remained in a globated, fuzzyfied, fixated state of flux since I told him several years ago that the energy crisis could be resolved if we built all the roads downhill.

I had no idea that his pondering of my suggestion could have placed him into such a stupor that an obese porcupine might crawl up his ****, set it quills, and die.

I suppose some sort of apology would be in order to the poor unkowing porcupine.

RT1

Can't remember the last time I saw a positive comment from Bobman. He's always seems bitter and always willing to give his .02c regardless. Seems to me he is one of the most unhappy people I encounter on the internet.

reeltrouble1

madmax wrote: »

Its a good thing we have a smart person here.
madmax

Yes it is, however, I seem to recall:

You can Learn alot from a Dummy.

RT1

bobman1235

heiney9 wrote: »

Can't remember the last time I saw a positive comment from Bobman. He's always seems bitter and always willing to give his .02c regardless. Seems to me he is one of the most unhappy people I encounter on the internet.

I guess I'm only prompted to comment when I disagree with something; sorry I have such a negative impact on everyone. I'll try to tone it down, lest another poor porcupine suffer the same fate as the last one.

bikezappa

(www.bybeetech.com)

I bet no one can understand their technology and it's classified. Right.

Quantum noise? Right.

It's all bull crap IMHO.

concealer404

bikezappa wrote: »

(www.bybeetech.com)

I bet no one can understand their technology and it's classified. Right.

Quantum noise? Right.

It's all bull crap IMHO.

Step in the right direction.... at least now you're admitting it's opinion, and not fact.

bikezappa

concealer404 wrote: »

Step in the right direction.... at least now you're admitting it's opinion, and not fact.

And do you believe it and understand that cite?

concealer404

bikezappa wrote: »

And do you believe it and understand that cite?

I didn't read it yet..... as far as i got was my heart leaping for joy when i saw the evidence that you have figured out the difference between opinion and fact. I'm at work.

I'll read it later when i have time to figure out what all the engineering folk may be saying in there.

DarqueKnight

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

I had no idea that his pondering of my suggestion could have placed him into such a stupor that an obese porcupine might crawl up his ****, set it quills, and die.

Clarification: I did not say, or even mean to imply, that the porcupine was dead. Empirical evidence indicates that the poor critter is very much alive and likes its cozy new home.:)

bikezappa

Meassage for DK.

6 Truths of Life:




















1. You cannot touch all your top teeth with your tongue.















2. All idiots, after reading the first truth, will try it.













3. And discover that the first truth is a lie and feel superior because they can do it.











4. You're smiling now because you're an idiot.










5. You soon will forward this to another idiot.











6. There's still a stupid smile on your face.









I apologize about this.








I'm an idiot and I need company.

megasat16

Damn You, Zeroesssss...I am now in the same boat as YOU!

That's a good laughter in this thread!

treitz3

Hey DK, off the beaten subject here but I gots a question for ya'. Are you possibly thinking about making a book or whatever with all of your recent [past two years or so] evaluations?

I'm not interested in the riff-raff that seems to cling to your observations like a spider web but I would be interested in a hard copy of all of your findings. Just throwing it out there. If not, I'm a big boy. I know where to find the information.

F1nut

All you tag abusers make me ashamed to be a member here. Grow up!

treitz3

Well, you can look at it this way F1. The nitwit who made the crack about you bullying can't even spell bullying. I guess that shows the true intelligence level of the folks that abuse the tags.

bikezappa

treitz3 wrote: »

Well, you can look at it this way F1. The nitwit who made the crack about you bullying can't even spell bullying. I guess that shows the true intelligence level of the folks that abuse the tags.

My, My, MY we are sensitive and bored today and the spelling police are out again today.

No dialogue is possible with these two shills of the snake oil audio industry.

Either you agree with them or you are..... fill in the blank for the day.

Just don't ask them any questions or try to understand data, just have faith in their opinions and ears.

They appear to want to drive out any member that doesn't agree with them.

They never answer the simple question about the effects of the cheap voice coil wire in the speakers they connect to with $1000 speaker wire. Remember it's all in the same circuit. Bad wire (100 feet) connected to good espensive wire (10 feet or less).

Check my spelling please.

treitz3

Ah, you must be the guilty party then?

hearingimpared

bikezappa wrote: »

My, My, MY we are sensitive and bored today and the spelling police are out again today.

No dialogue is possible with these two shills of the snake oil audio industry.

Either you agree with them or you are..... fill in the blank for the day.

Just don't ask them any questions or try to understand data, just have faith in their opinions and ears.

They appear to want to drive out any member that doesn't agree with them.

They never answer the simple question about the effects of the cheap voice coil wire in the speakers they connect to with $1000 speaker wire. Remember it's all in the same circuit. Bad wire (100 feet) connected to good espensive wire (10 feet or less).

Check my spelling please.

BZ, what have you done to prove otherwise then to just say it is bullsh%t?

bikezappa

hearingimpared wrote: »

BZ, what have you done to prove otherwise then to just say it is bullsh%t?

Well if you get off your arse and look up the formulars and properties of a fuse you will find they have no inductivwe or capacitive reatance. That means they are purely resistive. That means the resistance doesn't change with the applied frequency of the wall line voltage. What DK is stating is that changing a fuse changes the resistance (by a very very small amount)and that changes the noise level. It's like saying: changing the line cords resistance changes the noise level when if fact the ratio of line voltage to noise never changes. You need a filter which is a combination of capacitance and inductance to reduce noise. All good electronic units have a built in noise filter circuit to reduce noise.

Stated in it's simplest form. A RESISTOR CAN'T REDUCE NOISE IN THE LINE CORD. THE NOISE TO LINE VOLTAGE RATIO REMAINS THE SAME WITH A RESISTOR.

Now call me more names for stating simple EE circuit theory as applied to noise filters and fuses.... again.

madmax

treitz3 wrote: »

Are you possibly thinking about making a book or whatever with all of your recent [past two years or so] evaluations?

I would be interested in a hard copy of all of your findings.

Yeah, I've been thinking the same thing for quite some time. Sign me up for a copy if you do. I'll be placing right between my electronic theory and physics books.
madmax

hearingimpared

bikezappa wrote: »

Well if you get off your arse and look up the formulars and properties of a fuse you will find they have no inductivwe or capacitive reatance. That means they are purely resistive. That means the resistance doesn't change with the applied frequency of the wall line voltage. What DK is stating is that changing a fuse changes the resistance (by a very very small amount)and that changes the noise level. It's like saying: changing the line cords resistance changes the noise level when if fact the ratio of line voltage to noise never changes. You need a filter which is a combination of capacitance and inductance to reduce noise. All good electronic units have a built in noise filter circuit to reduce noise.

Stated in it's simplest form. A RESISTOR CAN'T REDUCE NOISE IN THE LINE CORD. THE NOISE TO LINE VOLTAGE RATIO REMAINS THE SAME WITH A RESISTOR.

Now call me more names for stating simple EE circuit theory as applied to noise filters and fuses.... again.

Why do you have to be so antagonistic? I asked you a question and you answered it . . . there was no need for the last sentence or the beginning of the first.

heiney9

I have asked several questions of Bikezappa and he hasn't even made an attempt to answer them; even in a snide way which seems to be his style. I guess I can infer he either can't answer them, won't answer them, or can't be bothered because the questions may lead to a **** in his armour.

Credibility is diminishing fast. Just looking to start a competent and interesting discourse, but when asked specific questions they are ignored. It seems he'd rather talk in circles about how we can get our own learn on. But it is he who has disputed the findings and now we are left to figure out our own answers.

I guess if you're not going to illuminate us then perhaps you should steer clear of commenting.


H9

madmax

bikezappa wrote: »

Well if you get off your arse and look up the formulars and properties of a fuse you will find they have no inductivwe or capacitive reatance. That means they are purely resistive. That means the resistance doesn't change with the applied frequency of the wall line voltage. What DK is stating is that changing a fuse changes the resistance (by a very very small amount)and that changes the noise level. It's like saying: changing the line cords resistance changes the noise level when if fact the ratio of line voltage to noise never changes. You need a filter which is a combination of capacitance and inductance to reduce noise. All good electronic units have a built in noise filter circuit to reduce noise.

Stated in it's simplest form. A RESISTOR CAN'T REDUCE NOISE IN THE LINE CORD. THE NOISE TO LINE VOLTAGE RATIO REMAINS THE SAME WITH A RESISTOR.

Now call me more names for stating simple EE circuit theory as applied to noise filters and fuses.... again.

What a load. The mere contact between the fuse and holder causes a change of impedance, the metals can be dissimilar causing electrical reaction both between the terminals and fuse element and terminals and terminal clips, it can act as an antenna even if the rest of the circuitry is on a multi-layered board with ground planes to prevent such action, the element itself can vibrate and transmit noise around other components and of course as mentioned is a voltage drop.
madmax

unc2701

Well, I think if you go read http://www.bybeetech.com/ourtech.asp you can only reach one conclusion: The man is a fracking genius.

'cause either he's discovered a way to remove noise that's completely different from every other approach, or he's got people buying Teflon-wrapped resistors for $100+ a pop.

BTW, from a technical perspective, that page is pretty worthless. I've been through a number of the interviews, some better, some worse- the most interesting thing I found was the velocity of propagation of the Slipstream is 96%- same as an unshielded copper wire.

unc2701

madmax wrote: »

What a load. The mere contact between the fuse and holder causes a change of impedance, the metals can be dissimilar causing electrical reaction both between the terminals and fuse element and terminals and terminal clips, it can act as an antenna even if the rest of the circuitry is on a multi-layered board with ground planes to prevent such action, the element itself can vibrate and transmit noise around other components and of course as mentioned is a voltage drop.
madmax

Everything mentioned there would relate to a failure to introduce new noise, not remove existing noise. These are two different things that just about everyone has been using interchangeably.

bikezappa

hearingimpared wrote: »

Why do you have to be so antagonistic? I asked you a question and you answered it . . . there was no need for the last sentence or the beginning of the first.

Because I am called names for asking questions
Because I am accused of stating only BS
Because I have asked this question many times and get no answer
Because I hate BS science and snake oil audio crap

Just to name a few.

tcrossma

unc2701 wrote: »

Everything mentioned there would relate to a failure to introduce new noise, not remove existing noise. These are two different things that just about everyone has been using interchangeably.

This is from a completely layman's point of view, because I have absolutely no background of this type of thing from an EE standpoint, but...

Might it not be possible that all fuses introduce noise, and these "high-end" fuses introduce less noise than stock fuses, thus reducing the overall noise in the system? So while not actually "filtering" noise, the end result is the same?

Simple question, and I have absolutely no idea if the idea holds water, so please just politely correct me if it doesn't work that way.

bikezappa

Originally Posted by madmax
What a load. The mere contact between the fuse and holder causes a change of impedance, the metals can be dissimilar causing electrical reaction both between the terminals and fuse element and terminals and terminal clips, it can act as an antenna even if the rest of the circuitry is on a multi-layered board with ground planes to prevent such action, the element itself can vibrate and transmit noise around other components and of course as mentioned is a voltage drop.
madmax

These effects are true but the change in resistance between two metals in a fuse and it's holder is in the order of 0.000001 Ohms. The codes require the holder and fuse to be made with metals that are compatable with current. That's why I think Al wire sucks and can't be used anymore in the house wiring. Al forms an oxide layer that is resistive.

True all metals can be antennas and induce a signal but the signal would be in the order of 0.000001 volts and the ratio between 120Volts and 0,000001 is essentially zero and inaudable. FM antennas, large metal structures, induce voltages in the 0.0001 range, I think, and input wire is shielded because the voltage is small. In this case the wire connection to antenna is critical for a good clean noise free signal. The weather and the small antenna signal make the wire contact very important. Low resistance is impostant here. But this issue doesn't apply the 120V and fuses.

bikezappa

tcrossma wrote: »

This is from a completely layman's point of view, because I have absolutely no background of this type of thing from an EE standpoint, but...

Might it not be possible that all fuses introduce noise, and these "high-end" fuses introduce less noise than stock fuses, thus reducing the overall noise in the system? So while not actually "filtering" noise, the end result is the same?

Simple question, and I have absolutely no idea if the idea holds water, so please just politely correct me if it doesn't work that way.

I have no idea how a fuse could introduce noise into a 120 volt signal that would be audable.
Now the fuse could be broken and vibrate off and on.

DarqueKnight

treitz3 wrote: »

Are you possibly thinking about making a book or whatever with all of your recent [past two years or so] evaluations?

I'm not interested in the riff-raff that seems to cling to your observations like a spider web but I would be interested in a hard copy of all of your findings. Just throwing it out there. If not, I'm a big boy. I know where to find the information.

Noooooo. I don't like writing books.:) I really don't like writing reviews either. However, I have benefited tremendously from those who have taken the time to document their audio experiences, so, I think I have a moral obligation to give back to the audio community.

I think most people understand that my writings are offered from the viewpoint that "this is what I tried and this is what resulted". I'm not trying to "convert" anyone or imply that what I like is the best option available. I think it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to know all the options for a particular audio application. I don't like arguing about audio science. I like discussing audio science only from the standpoint of how the science facilitates better sound. I do enjoy discussing listening results, because, in the end, the sound is all that matters. I talk about electrical engineering all day every day at work. Do you really think I want to extend that into my leisure time? No, I don't.

As for the riff-raff, well, any information signal is going to incur some noise, fortunately there are "filters" available.;)

With regard to saving reviews for future reference, I just skip over the noise and save the individual thread posts that contain relevant information in a PDF file. The result looks just like the webpage presentation. Another nice thing about PDF's is you can search on keywords in the file.

heiney9 wrote: »

Can't remember the last time I saw a positive comment from Bobman. He's always seems bitter and always willing to give his .02c regardless. Seems to me he is one of the most unhappy people I encounter on the internet.

You know what? Your're right. Unlike most trolls, Bob actually has some entertainment value and I refrained from upgrading him to "elite" status for that reason. However, I did promise that I was going to curtail...and eventually give up...my guilty pleasure of troll bashing. I haven't completely kicked the habit...but I am much better than I used to be. Accordingly....



I just wish there was a way to block ignored member's quotes from showing up in non-ignored member's posts. Hopefully, we'll fix that eventually.

bikezappa

[QUOTE=tcrossma;1

Might it not be possible that all fuses introduce noise, and these "high-end" fuses introduce less noise than stock fuses, thus reducing the overall noise in the system? So while not actually "filtering" noise, the end result is the same?
QUOTE]

It's a good question and you shouldn't be afraid to ask it here.

DK what say you?