Chrysler and GM Dealerships

Jstas

dkg999 wrote: »

Someone mentioned the Ford Fusion, which is a rebadged Mazda 6.

No, you got that backwards there, sport.

The Fusion is built on the Ford CD3 platform which was debuted in 2006 on the Fusion. It's a global platform that supports multiple models and brands in multiple countries. The Mazda 6 was technically the first car build on that platform if you consider the GG/GY platform pedigree from Mazda. The current Mazda is actually a rebranded Ford design. The Ford CD3 platform is a re-engineered Mazda GG/GY platform which debuted in 2003 for the Mazda 6. The platform was developed jointly by Mazda/Ford in Japan for use in all markets. The CD3 platform is intended primarily for the North American markets. The Fusion was never built on the Mazda GG/GY platform. It has, from the start, been designated as a Ford platform. The Mazda 6 was moved to the Ford CD3 platform in 2006 and again the CD3 platform was redesigned for the 2009 Mazda 6 and now has the CD3 2 designation.

For the next generation of all the models associated with the CD3, Ford seems to be planning on using the EUCD platform which underpins the Ford Modeo in Europe. That would make sense since Ford is planning on bringing more of it's wildly successful European market models to the U.S. to better fill out the mid-sized and compact segments.

Current models based off of the Ford CD3 platform:

2006–present Mazda 6
2006–present Ford Fusion
2006–present Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ
2006–present Mercury Milan
2007 Mazda CX-9 crossover SUV
2007 Ford Edge crossover SUV
2007 Lincoln MKX crossover SUV

The Ford Flex was supposed to be based on this platform also but they moved it to the D3 platform that underpins the Taurus, Mecury Sable and Lincoln MKS as well as several Volvo platforms.

dkg999

Jstas - while that may be technically correct the consumer's perception is that it's a rebadged Mazda 6 and Ford's agency leveraged that heavily in promoting the vehicle. You should read some of the comments from the original customer focus groups. Mazda has been a huge part of improving Ford's products and building their brand image.

sucks2beme

When gas is cheap, Americans buy bigger vehicles. When it goes up,
they buy small. Right now consumers are sitting on purchasing a
new vehicle to see which way the wind blows. And all the car makers
are
A: Selling low volumes of all vehicles.
B: Selling at cost or a loss.
C: Unable to predict which lines of vehicles will recover first.

If it continues, there's going to be a lot of car makers besides the
big 3 in deep do do. Toyota lost a buttload of money.
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/toyota_motor_corporation/index.html

BigMac

I'll stick with my Subaru.......forget the BIG 3 and their insane failures. Imo Subaru outdrives,outperforms, and kicks the crud out of its competition and the sales figures prove it. Plus, they are very safe. I don't want a small or big car/suv. I wanted something in the middle, so the Subie fits the bill perfectly. Never dollars me to death, is reliable as they come,and performs fantastic in adverse weather conditions. Is it the best out there, highly debatable for sure but in my book, bang for the buck, a subie is hard to beat. Just take a look at these 2 vids and see why their competition is left wanting.

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While the majority of the automakers lost money and needed a bailout Subaru actually made money and is gaining more ground as we speak. The 'BIG 3' should take a look at Subaru and see why they are whipping the competition.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/january-2009-sales-figures.html

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/category/topicarticle.aspx?feed=PR&Date=20090501&ID=9861383&topic=TOPIC_SALES_REPORT&isub=1

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillyinc/Subaru_sales_rise_in_2008_while_other_automakers_fall.html

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2009/03/03/452390.html

http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/2009/01/subaru_actually_made_money_in.php

heiney9

dkg999 wrote: »

Jstas - while that may be technically correct the consumer's perception is that it's a rebadged Mazda 6 and Ford's agency leveraged that heavily in promoting the vehicle. You should read some of the comments from the original customer focus groups. Mazda has been a huge part of improving Ford's products and building their brand image.

Absolutely correct, w/o Mazda Ford wouldn't be where it is today. Conversely Mazda was bleeding around the time of the "merger" and it has been a WIN/WIN for both companies.

Don't kid yourself, Ford's improved reliability as well as styling cues interior and exterior and many of it's more postive attributes have been because of Mazda's influence. I'd say both companies are doing well considering the recent economy, but I'd still buy a Mazda 6 before a Ford Fusion.

H9

Jstas

dkg999 wrote: »

Jstas - while that may be technically correct the consumer's perception is that it's a rebadged Mazda 6 and Ford's agency leveraged that heavily in promoting the vehicle. You should read some of the comments from the original customer focus groups. Mazda has been a huge part of improving Ford's products and building their brand image.

Consumers are stupid. This thread proves that.

heiney9

Be sure to include yourself as a consumer too!!!

dpowell

Ricardo wrote: »

Ford, Honda, Chevy, Toyota, BMW, Dodge.......

Polk, B&W, Tyler, Magnepan, Boston, Dynaudio........

MIT, Audioquest, Signal, Canare, Nordost......

Blondes, Brunettes, Redheads, Asians.......

Mexican, Italian, Creole, Chinese, Junk......


And on and on.

Dell, HP, IBM, Packard Bell, eMachines.......

Adcom, Outlaw, B&K, Cinenova, Sunfire, Emotiva.......

Jstas

heiney9 wrote: »

Absolutely correct, w/o Mazda Ford wouldn't be where it is today. Conversely Mazda was bleeding around the time of the "merger" and it has been a WIN/WIN for both companies.

Don't kid yourself, Ford's improved reliability as well as styling cues interior and exterior and many of it's more postive attributes have been because of Mazda's influence. I'd say both companies are doing well considering the recent economy, but I'd still buy a Mazda 6 before a Ford Fusion.

H9

This is just not true. Ford has been leveraging it's Ford of Europe engineering house for decades, even before they went in to cahoots with Mazda. Most of the modern design cues and influences did not come from Mazda but rather Ford of Europe and Ford UK design houses. Not Mazda.


As far as your Mazda 6 over a Ford Fusion, that's just idiocy. All the Mazda 6's sold here are built here, right alongside the Ford Fusion, in the same assembly plant, by the same people.

mhardy6647

heiney9 wrote: »

...but I'd still buy a Mazda 6 before a Ford Fusion.

H9

Why is that (if I might ask)? Price? Dealership? Fit 'n' finish? Other?

Jstas

heiney9 wrote: »

Be sure to include yourself as a consumer too!!!

You can't be a consumer if you don't buy anything.

I haven't bought a vehicle in 9 years. Evey model available 10 years ago when I was shopping has either been changed significantly or is no longer available. I am decidedly NOT a modern consumer. But believe me, if I do go and buy a vehicle, I'll research it BEFORE I go to a dealer. I can't say that for 90% of the American buying public that is going on ancient car industry myths, second hand anecdotal evidence and just general misinformation.

I will say that it must be nice to live in blissful ignorance artificially truncating the number of choices in life you have available to you. Must really take the pressure off when having to make a decision when you pre-maturely eliminate half of your viable options.

heiney9

Jstas wrote: »

As far as your Mazda 6 over a Ford Fusion, that's just idiocy. All the Mazda 6's sold here are built here, right alongside the Ford Fusion, in the same assembly plant, by the same people.

What does that have to do with my preference being the Mazda 6??? Perhaps you are assuming something about me? I prefer the Mazda 6 over the Fusion and actually I'd probably buy a VW anyway. Never liked Japanese cars or American cars for that matter.

That's my personal opinion and preference.............last time I checked I was allowed to choose for my own reasons. As far as idiocy..........fan boys elicite more idiocy. Take your blinders off and realize not everyone thinks like you do and your opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else's.

H9

sucks2beme

Both Ford and GM have European divisions, and CAN built some pretty
nice small cars. But that's not what Americans wanted to buy until gas hit
record highs last year. They were making all their money on big honking
SUVs and extended cab trucks. That's why all the imports suddenly started
building big honking vehicles, too.
What happens if they ALL go under? :eek:

heiney9

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Why is that (if I might ask)? Price? Dealership? Fit 'n' finish? Other?

All the above certainly...............

BigMac

Just another reason why I love Subaru and they are gaining ground. IF the BIG 3 American automakers followed in their footsteps the average consumer would greatly benefit. Don't get me wrong, I have owned vehicles by the BIG 3 but I was tired of all the issues. My favorite was 'our' 72' Chevelle with a 454 when I was in middle/high school. My friends and I worked on building this car as we were growing up, and all invested to complete it. Nothing like a 900hp car at the ripe old age of 16. Was to much car for us, but then again, sure was fun to drive till we had to fill er' up. That car got the worse gas mileage ever!!

http://www.sciencefriday.com/newsbriefs/read/169

Jstas

heiney9 wrote: »

What does that have to do with my preference being the Mazda 6??? Perhaps you are assuming something about me? I prefer the Mazda 6 over the Fusion and actually I'd probably buy a VW anyway. Never liked Japanese cars or American cars for that matter.

That's my personal opinion and preference.............last time I checked I was allowed to choose for my own reasons. As far as idiocy..........fan boys elicite more idiocy. Take your blinders off and realize not everyone thinks like you do and your opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else's.

H9

Sorry, not a "fan boy". Yes, most of my experience comes with Fords for my own reasons. But I am fairly well versed on GM and Chrysler products as well as many Honda, Toyota, Subaru and BMW products. Everyone just seems to like to pick on Ford here and get their facts wrong. Then they tell me that "consumers opinions" are their reasoning. Well, facts are facts and consumers rarely have a complete set of those and if they do, they are rarely accurate.

Stop talking out your **** and do some research before you open your mouth. You can have all the opinions all you want but if you base your opinions on inaccurate "facts", I'm gonna correct you. Obviously you won't change your opinion and you, like many people here, are mired in misconceptions and I, personally, think that is where the blinders are.

As far as the Mazda vs. Ford thing, your whole previous argument was about American cars being junk compared to foreign counterparts and that Ford owes all of it's engineering and design prowess to Mazda which just isn't true. Then you stated that you would buy a Mazda 6 over a Ford Fusion which given the context of your argument, doesn't make sense since the only differences are aesthetics. Then again, one only argues semantics when they lack an argument of any substance.

You choose whatever car you want for whatever reasons. But if you are going to base a decision on outdated and/or inaccurate information then you deserve what you get. Even if all you get is me, on an Internet forum, saying that I think your stance is silly.

Ricardo

EMU is launching an electric car powered by massive toroidals in the next few months. I'm waiting for that one.

mhardy6647

BigMac wrote: »

Just another reason why I love Subaru and they are gaining ground. IF the BIG 3 American automakers followed in their footsteps the average consumer would greatly benefit. Don't get me wrong, I have owned vehicles by the BIG 3 but I was tired of all the issues. My favorite was 'our' 72' Chevelle with a 454 when I was in middle/high school. My friends and I worked on building this car as we were growing up, and all invested to complete it. Nothing like a 900hp car at the ripe old age of 16. Was to much car for us, but then again, sure was fun to drive till we had to fill er' up. That car got the worse gas mileage ever!!

http://www.sciencefriday.com/newsbriefs/read/169

Subarus have long been popular in New England... the only problem I have with them is seeing, even nowadays, how many truly rusty (but not particularly old) Subarus one sees on the roads 'round here. Just today en route to work I was behind a Forester (no older than my car) with great rusty chunks in the liftgate below the rear window.

mhardy6647

Ricardo wrote: »

EMU is launching an electric car powered by massive toroidals in the next few months. I'm waiting for that one.

Massive toroidal whats? Toruses, like Tokamak fusion reactors? :-)
No batteries?

Willow

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Why is that (if I might ask)? Price? Dealership? Fit 'n' finish? Other?

Same reason we and most people bought a Matrix over the Vibe...we no longer have the Matrix

Ricardo

mhardy6647 wrote: »

No batteries?

They will use 99,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 uF capacitors that will save the energy that gets charged when you plug the car overnight. It will also have some cool looking blue leds.

BigMac

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Subarus have long been popular in New England... the only problem I have with them is seeing, even nowadays, how many truly rusty (but not particularly old) Subarus one sees on the roads 'round here. Just today en route to work I was behind a Forester (no older than my car) with great rusty chunks in the liftgate below the rear window.

I believe that with all the chemicals that must be put down. Glad you pointed that out as I live in Virginia and have snow but nowhere like up North. Your comment reminded me of a friend of mine that had a Scout. Now that thing was a rust bucket. Was so bad you could not push on the floorboard in certain areas or you would fall through. One day as we were driving the drive shaft fell off and hit the road. We looked underneath and there was no way to repair it unless you rebuilt the entire area around it as well. Needless to say that was the last day of its life.

bobman1235

Another vote for Subarus, I love mine, and knock on wood hasn't had a problem yet in its 80,000 mile run.

66chevyIISS

My car is powered by a Flux Capacitor!

heiney9

Jstas wrote: »

Sorry, not a "fan boy". Yes, most of my experience comes with Fords for my own reasons. But I am fairly well versed on GM and Chrysler products as well as many Honda, Toyota, Subaru and BMW products. Everyone just seems to like to pick on Ford here and get their facts wrong. Then they tell me that "consumers opinions" are their reasoning. Well, facts are facts and consumers rarely have a complete set of those and if they do, they are rarely accurate.

Stop talking out your **** and do some research before you open your mouth. You can have all the opinions all you want but if you base your opinions on inaccurate "facts", I'm gonna correct you. Obviously you won't change your opinion and you, like many people here, are mired in misconceptions and I, personally, think that is where the blinders are.

As far as the Mazda vs. Ford thing, your whole previous argument was about American cars being junk compared to foreign counterparts and that Ford owes all of it's engineering and design prowess to Mazda which just isn't true. Then you stated that you would buy a Mazda 6 over a Ford Fusion which given the context of your argument, doesn't make sense since the only differences are aesthetics. Then again, one only argues semantics when they lack an argument of any substance.

You choose whatever car you want for whatever reasons. But if you are going to base a decision on outdated and/or inaccurate information then you deserve what you get. Even if all you get is me, on an Internet forum, saying that I think your stance is silly.

You know what John............go 'eff yourself. You read sooooooooooooo much more into anyone posts than I've ever encountered. I'm not talking out my ****.......I'm giving my opinion on the subject. Sorry it doesn't align with your beliefs or experiences, you have one helluva god damn chip on your shoulder. Your life must really suck.

H9

Willow

66chevyIISS wrote: »

My car is powered by a Flux Capacitor!

1.21 gigawatts...great scott!

sucks2beme

Maybe someone special will show up and tell us how a Kia drives
just like a BMW. The differences are all in our head????????

mhardy6647

BigMac wrote: »

I believe that with all the chemicals that must be put down. Glad you pointed that out as I live in Virginia and have snow but nowhere like up North. Your comment reminded me of a friend of mine that had a Scout. Now that thing was a rust bucket. Was so bad you could not push on the floorboard in certain areas or you would fall through. One day as we were driving the drive shaft fell off and hit the road. We looked underneath and there was no way to repair it unless you rebuilt the entire area around it as well. Needless to say that was the last day of its life.

My father in law had one (a '77 IIRC) that suffered a similar fate (in New Hampshire) when I first knew him. Up through the floorboard thing; not the driveshaft! :-)

mhardy6647

Ricardo wrote: »

They will use 99,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 uF capacitors that will save the energy that gets charged when you plug the car overnight. It will also have some cool looking blue leds.

crikey. That's 99,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 farads of capacitance (roughly 1 x 10^26 farads). Do not lick the terminals of one of those to see if it is charged.

steveinaz

Blaming unions for the high cost of cars is like blaming the government for the high price of tobacco. They are a convenient target. RJ Reynolds hasn't dropped a cent off the price of their cigarettes to compensate for the rediculous sin taxes waged on tobacco---they love hiding behind the incorrect belief (read that: ignorance of many Americans) that it's the gubments fault. American trucks still pull down a HUGE profit--seen any HUGE sales on them through all of this? I didn't think so. It's all about the bottom-line baby.