Chrysler and GM Dealerships

Hillbilly61

The radio says Chrysler has canceled franchises with their 3600 dealerships. Plus, GM says they will not renew franchises with approximately 3000 (half) of their dearlerships.

This is ****. Where can I go to buy an American vehicle besides of Ford? Toyota dealerships do not cut it. Their plants in the USA only assemble foreign made components as a means to escape tarrifs.

bobman1235

Oh boy, another American car company discussion! Can't wait!

Knucklehead

May as well put my 2cents worth in....if the unions didnt strangle the manufacturers it wouldnt be so bad.

howie777

Not all foreign cars are just assembled in the US. I work for a tier 1 supplier and 60% of our business is for foreign auto makers for vehicles sold in the US Actually, if you compare, a lot of US automakers assemble in Mexico these days, so are you really buying American buy purchasing a Ford, GM or Chrysler? I don't know, but there are very few if any 100% American cars anymore from the big auto makers.

Just FYI.

Howie

Hillbilly61

howie777 wrote: »

I work for a tier 1 supplier and 60% of our business is for foreign auto makers for vehicles sold in the US.

Howie

Where does your other 40% of business comes from? If from Chrysler and/or GM does that loss mean that you or colleages will remain employed? This is a serious question, as it is understood that brands buy from Teir 1 suppliers, where most of the parts & accompanying employment comes from.

shepx2

Hillbilly61 wrote: »

The radio says Chrysler has canceled franchises with their 3600 dealerships. Plus, GM says they will not renew franchises with approximately 3000 (half) of their dearlerships.

This is ****. Where can I go to buy an American vehicle besides of Ford? Toyota dealerships do not cut it. Their plants in the USA only assemble foreign made components as a means to escape tarrifs.

Doesn't bother me in the least. I'll never buy another GM/Ford/Chrysler car in my life. I'm not going to buy "american" if it sucks in comparison.

shack

GM is planning to close 2,600/2,700 by 2010. The are 6,246 now. So you will have at least 3,500 GM dealers to choose from. The one's to go will be the smaller, low volume (or unprofitable) dealers in small towns or towns with multiple dealerships. If Fiat takes over Chrysler, they will renegotiate terms with the exitisng dealerships and open up a smaller network. Between Ford, GM and Fiat/Chrysler there will be 7,000 - 8,000 dealers to buy your "American" car from. Take into consideration all of the Hondas, Nissans, Toyotas, BMWs, Mercedes, VWs, etc built in the US and the list gets much much larger.

Hillbilly61

shepx2 wrote: »

Doesn't bother me in the least. I'll never buy another GM/Ford/Chrysler car in my life. I'm not going to buy "american" if it sucks in comparison.

That is part of the problem. Most american brands are on par quality wise according to J.D. Powers. The reputation remains and higher prices cannot be obtained as a result. Of all of the cars I have have had over all of these years, the most expensive ones from a cost to own standpoint has been Toyota and Honda.

For example, I had to replace a starter on a Toyota. When I was done, I was out $550. In a USA vehicle, the cost would have been less than half of that. Don't get me started on Honda struts.....

I have had to replace parts on American autos too. Far less expensive and no more or less frequent than foreign autos, but by far less expensive.

mhardy6647

Hillbilly61 wrote: »

The radio says Chrysler has canceled franchises with their 3600 dealerships. Plus, GM says they will not renew franchises with approximately 3000 (half) of their dearlerships.

Just like 'big box' retailing.... the 'mom and pop' dealerships will be gone; the big box/conglomerate dealers will survive.

Do the math: if 3000 is half of GM's dealerships, there will be 3000 left.

3000 dealerships per 50 states = 150 per state.

I think you'll be able to find one if that's what you want to do.

dkg999

I wanted an American built car, so I bought a Honda Accord. Higher US overall parts, engineering, and labor content than my Harley-Davidson motorcycle.

shack

shepx2 wrote:

Doesn't bother me in the least. I'll never buy another GM/Ford/Chrysler car in my life. I'm not going to buy "american" if it sucks in comparison.

While there are some "American" cars that aren't up to par...there are many that are as good as anything Europe or Japan/Korea produce. My last two cars have been Fords. My 1993 5.0 Mustang LX was still going strong at 185,000 with no major issues (a new radiator and A/C compressor clutch were the only repairs) when I semi-retired it 6 years ago. My 2003 Focus ZX5 with 121,000 miles had a heater core leak when new and a clutch master cylinder leak at 100,000 miles. It's still going stong with no signs of slowing down. Fit and finish on both are/were excellent. The Ford Fusion, The Ford Fiesta, Chevy Malibu, Chevy Colbalt are equal or better than their peer competition based on worldwide auto press testing.

The perception that Detroit can't build as good of a car as the rest of the world is an unfortunate myth.

howie777

Well I have been with my company for 9 years and have made it through about 10-12 layoffs. Seems I started right after the "good" years. And when I started the big 3 where 60% of our business, now 40% and we continue to go after more outside of the big 3, so most likely we will be 70/30 or 80/20 as we aquire failing companies to expand our business (my guess anyway).

the thing that gets me is we are being asked to work with a new company from Europe. They are looking to replace some European suppliers because they are too expensive...yeah we are a "mid" cost country now! Oh well, what are you going to do?

Howie

shepx2

Hillbilly61 wrote: »

That is part of the problem. Most american brands are on par quality wise according to J.D. Powers. The reputation remains and higher prices cannot be obtained as a result. Of all of the cars I have have had over all of these years, the most expensive ones from a cost to own standpoint has been Toyota and Honda.

For example, I had to replace a starter on a Toyota. When I was done, I was out $550. In a USA vehicle, the cost would have been less than half of that. Don't get me started on Honda struts.....

I have had to replace parts on American autos too. Far less expensive and no more or less frequent than foreign autos, but by far less expensive.

I don't buy things on the basis of "JD Powers" ratings; I buy them on a number of factors. But personal experience plays #1 in my book. And none of the american cars has ever held up to any of my Honda's I have owned. Not even close. Yes, parts are more expensive. But when it breaks less than 25% as often, it more than makes up for it.

Serendipity

Just my opinion on American vs. Japanese cars...

My dad owned a Plymouth Reliant in the 80's that lasted around 100,000 miles or so before the transmission went. Then an 89 Nissan Maxima that lasted 110,000 miles before we sold it.

Both cars had their own quirks/problems, but the Nissan needed quite a few repairs after 10years/100k miles. So no car is perfect. I'd say American cars are roughly the same as Japanese cars nowadays.

shepx2

shack wrote: »

While there are some "American" cars that aren't up to par...there are many that are as good as anything Europe or Japan/Korea produce. My last two cars have been Fords. My 1993 5.0 Mustang LX was still going strong at 185,000 with no major issues (a new radiator and A/C compressor clutch were the only repairs) when I semi-retired it 6 years ago. My 2003 Focus ZX5 with 121,000 miles had a heater core leak when new and a clutch master cylinder leak at 100,000 miles. It's still going stong with no signs of slowing down. Fit and finish on both are/were excellent. The Ford Fusion, The Ford Fiesta, Chevy Malibu, Chevy Colbalt are equal or better than their peer competition based on worldwide auto press testing.

The perception that Detroit can't build as good of a car as the rest of the world is an unfortunate myth.

Sorry, the numbers do not show it is a myth. It is a fact, and has been for years. Yes, Ford has done better in recent years with their reliability, and they have gotten about even. And the Mustang is one of the few american cars I would consider buying. But regardless of how good the Malibu and Cobalt are, their reliability is just not as good as Honda or Toyota. Go look it up. GM + Chrysler = crappy reliability.

My wife is a director with Mary Kay, and her current company car is a Saturn Aura. I really like it. It rides nice; gets decent gas mileage. But, it's the little things about it that drive you nuts. Like, the trunk has a HUGE amount of room, with a TINY @ss lid that basically negates it. We can't even put our main baby stroller in it because of that; yet, it goes into my Altima with plenty of room to spare.
Or the fact that the cruise/stereo buttons on the steering wheel have ZERO tactile difference between them, so you are stuck staring at the steering wheel if using them (which negates their entire purpose). I could list a dozen or so other little things about it that are just poorly thought out. Yes, all cars have those little annoyances, but the big 3 have more than their competition.
It's a solid car; I really like it. But it's competitors are just slightly better. Yeah, it won North American Car of the Year; notice the "North American" part.

I really want to buy american. I grew up near the GM plant that built the Cavalier and Sunfires. Lots of people I know work there. But in my opinion, their cars are just not quite up to the same level.
We can blame the union (and rightfully so) for many of the big 3's problems, but poor ergonomics and lousy reliability is not their fault.

Serendipity

shack wrote: »

While there are some "American" cars that aren't up to par...there are many that are as good as anything Europe or Japan/Korea produce. My last two cars have been Fords. My 1993 5.0 Mustang LX was still going strong at 185,000 with no major issues (a new radiator and A/C compressor clutch were the only repairs) when I semi-retired it 6 years ago. My 2003 Focus ZX5 with 121,000 miles had a heater core leak when new and a clutch master cylinder leak at 100,000 miles. It's still going stong with no signs of slowing down. Fit and finish on both are/were excellent. The Ford Fusion, The Ford Fiesta, Chevy Malibu, Chevy Colbalt are equal or better than their peer competition based on worldwide auto press testing.

The perception that Detroit can't build as good of a car as the rest of the world is an unfortunate myth.

+1

That 5.0 is probably one of the best engines Ford ever made.

Like I said in a previous post, no car is without problems. Whether it be Ford, GM, Nissan, or Toyota, after around 10 years of daily use ANY car will need repairs.

F1nut

I've owned two Toyota's in all my years of driving. Never again. I've watched both my brothers Honda's turn to rusted junk. Never again.

Myth? Yeah, it is.

66chevyIISS

At least Chevrolet got the Camaro out on the road finally before they went under. Now if I can just convince the wife that a baby seat fits fine in one! haha

dpowell

My chevy Lumina lasted 10 years/98,000 miles before needing more in repairs than it was worth. My Toyota Camry lasted 14 years/204,000 miles before the tranny went.

The math does it all for me:
204k miles in a Toyota = 1 purchase at ~$25,000 (if buying new)

To get 204k miles in a Lumina = 2 purchased at ~$20,000ea. for a total of $40,000

No brainer there.


Needless to say, we're an all-Toyota family now.

ohskigod

better hope that Toyota don't need service. they treat you like crap.......this was of course when they were selling like hotcakes and arrogant. might be different now. Toyota service pretty much made me a Ford customer

2 words.....Ford Fusion

higher reliability ratings than the Camry and doesn't scream "I bought a boring car because I'm a Nadless conformist" either. Thats a win right there.

throw Ford a little love folks. they're hanging on, losing money, but hangin on. actually all the car companies are losing now.

how much taxpayer dough did Ford take again? oh yeah...NONE

I'm not a fan boy of any brand, but I dont rule any of them out because of urbam myths either. They're called test drives folks

sucks2beme

Reality- reliability is more specific to car models than car brands.
All car companies have good and bad cars. Drivetrain design has a
lot to do with it. There are bullet proof designs.That's what drives
me crazy is when they continue to build a model with the same
crappy parts year after year. But that is what the bean counters
want. And we all know bean counters are always best for the business!

Who would of thought we'd reach a point where Ford may be the only
U.S. company left?

mhardy6647

I am looking forward to the Ford Fiesta coming back to the US market (2010 I think). At that point I hope to replace my 2000 Focus ZX-3 (currently 159k miles ).

Plan B is the Fusion Hybrid. I like the hybrid technology (Mrs. H has an Escape hybrid 4wd)... but I'd really rather have a manual transmission!

concealer404

Hillbilly61 wrote: »

That is part of the problem. Most american brands are on par quality wise according to J.D. Powers. The reputation remains and higher prices cannot be obtained as a result. Of all of the cars I have have had over all of these years, the most expensive ones from a cost to own standpoint has been Toyota and Honda.

For example, I had to replace a starter on a Toyota. When I was done, I was out $550. In a USA vehicle, the cost would have been less than half of that. Don't get me started on Honda struts.....

I have had to replace parts on American autos too. Far less expensive and no more or less frequent than foreign autos, but by far less expensive.

Unfortunately, J.D. Powers doesn't buy my cars. I dont' care what a third party says about a car when i'm buying it, i buy it because I like it. I don't care if anyone else likes it.

As for cost to own standpoint, i guess it depends really on what year and models they were. My last Honda, i got a brand new full set of struts for under $250. That being said, it WAS a 2000 model, but still. Any cars just coming out of warranty, whether it be import or domestic has seen a GROSS increase in parts costs because everyone is going complicated for the sake of being complicated.

Starter for my Toyota is $80. Just sayin'. The motor and starter in my car was used up to 2001 in various Toyota models. I haven't had to buy one though... the original is still working just fine after 227k miles, thanks! Same goes for alternator, ignitor, transmission, motor in general (never been opened), all other electronics and interior switches. The only things ever replaced on it is distributor, battery, and other schedule maintenence. Well, and the things that i've improved in making it my track car.

Even after me sticking up for them, i still wouldn't buy a new Honda or Toyota. Not because of cost to own, but just because i don't like them. They're boring, ugly, and boring. Did i mention boring? I can't think of a single domestic car i would buy, either.

polktiger

I have friends with Honda, Toyota, Lexus, Nissan - and that is all they drive. We have owned Saturn Dodge and Jeep over the last 15 years. Aside from changing the oil, brakes, and tires which I consider maintenance. We average about one "repair" every five years. All have been warranty and all minor. Our "repairs: 1) window off track, 2)window motor died, 3) bad gasket at the gas cap.

I can honestly say that our cars have not no more problems that friends with imports. In addition consider the 30,000 scheduled maintenance bill for a Honda or a Lexus running $350+, replacing a Toyota motor due to sludging caused by a design defect. The only thing I can say in defense of the imports is trade-in value is higher due to the perception of higher quality, but I am willing to take that hit. To drive a car that is not as hideous as the Honda Elephant or boring (inside and out) as a Toyota Camery.

Legion5

it's been statistically proven that there is no significant difference in reliability for any modern cars FYI and if you compare chevy interiors (best american volume interiors) to toyota interiors (worst foreign interiors) they are better.

bobman1235

It's like the same effing thread we have to hash through every week. Some people like imports, some people like domestics, you're all retards, can we just move on? No one's changing their minds.

dpowell

ohskigod wrote: »

better hope that Toyota don't need service. they treat you like crap.......

higher reliability ratings than the Camry and doesn't scream "I bought a boring car because I'm a Nadless conformist" either. Thats a win right there.

Camry Solara, not the car of a Nadless conformist. Hasn't required service in 5 years, just oil changes and they've been friendly every time.

dpowell

66chevyIISS wrote: »

At least Chevrolet got the Camaro out on the road finally before they went under. Now if I can just convince the wife that a baby seat fits fine in one! haha

This or the Vette IS one American car I WOULD own!:D

sucks2beme

bobman1235 wrote: »

It's like the same effing thread we have to hash through every week. Some people like imports, some people like domestics, you're all retards, can we just move on? No one's changing their minds.

Oh sure, rain on everybodies parade.
I agree that mindsets on cars and cables don't change with a post.
There are good Fords and bad Toyotas. And vice-versa. Hence my
model rather than brand post. It's a going to be a tough year for selling
any cars. I'm going to run mine into the dirt. The trade value on the truck
is nothing, so I've got nothing to lose by milking it out. Multiply that idea
out by 10 million and it's going to be a bad year for all things automotive.

Ricardo

Ford, Honda, Chevy, Toyota, BMW, Dodge.......

Polk, B&W, Tyler, Magnepan, Boston, Dynaudio........

MIT, Audioquest, Signal, Canare, Nordost......

Blondes, Brunettes, Redheads, Asians.......

Mexican, Italian, Creole, Chinese, Junk......


And on and on.

dkg999

It is a myth that American auto company products are inferior, becasue all the auto companies via consultants, OEM's, etc. share technology and process. Someone mentioned the Ford Fusion, which is a rebadged Mazda 6. GM in Europe builds sub-assemblies for Volvo. Porsche almost makes more money (and maybe they do make more money?) from engineering consulting than they do from vehicle sales. Every Harley-Davidson motor in their current line has some Porsche engineering inside it. Yamaha actually provides a significant amount of engineering and components to many of the auto companies, US and foreign.

I think that reliability and life-span of today's vehicles often has more to do with the owner than who built the vehicle.