How long can speakers last?
Comments
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Thanks for the reply,Im in agreement on most points except the following.
I disagree,I think you are more likey to be successful using true 1st order crossovers with a 3way.This because it will be easier to achieve the approx. two octaves of driver overlap required.Done correctly 1st order BW can sound very good ,both Vandersteen and Theil have made some excellent 3 way 1 st order systems.We have also used 1st order butterworth in some cases as it's very accurate with phasing and brilliant with impulse response and is in my opinion still one of the best sounding crossovers.That is if you have drivers that are perfectly matched in terms of natural frequency response and roll off.More than a two way configuration with this setup defeats the object though.
I prefer using 4th order LR's(especially actives) and do not feel that the fact it's not being minimum phase a comprimise.Flat summed amplitude response ,reduced lobing errors,and the ability to crossover at a lower frequency because the steep slope protects the tweeter etc. make it desirable.Linkwitz 4th order is the best in most ways except for two things.Design complexity and it not being phase linear.Many will argue that it is not audible but my experience begs to differ.
IMO lobing will be as much or more of an issue in a 2 way.mulltiple driver configurations(3-4 way +) where lobing becomes critical.
The John Bau I refered to in my previous post obtained a minimum phase reponse in his famous Spica TC50 's using a 4th order bessel low pass and a 1st order Hi pass.It was then(mid 80's) a unique design.Bessel on the low pass.We would then simply play with frequency overlap until we find the best phase coherency and flat amplitude response
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btw the speaker cable thread whipped your behind :d wishful thinking buddy
:eek: What did I do to get that kind of reply from you?
Please be kind enough point out exactly what post did I get my behind whipped!Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
Leave Seafire to ME! He is no match for the power of the DARK SIDE!!! I must face him... alone!
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Good evening!Thanks for the reply,Im in agreement on most points except the following.
I disagree,I think you are more likey to be successful using true 1st order crossovers with a 3way.This because it will be easier to achieve the approx. two octaves of driver overlap required.Done correctly 1st order BW can sound very good ,both Vandersteen and Theil have made some excellent 3 way 1 st order systems. I prefer using 4th order LR's(especially actives) and do not feel that the fact it's not being minimum phase a comprimise.Flat summed amplitude response ,reduced lobing errors,and the ability to crossover at a lower frequency because the steep slope protects the tweeter etc. make it desirable. IMO lobing will be as much or more of an issue in a 2 way.
The John Bau I refered to in my previous post obtained a minimum phase reponse in his famous Spica TC50 's using a 4th order bessel low pass and a 1st order Hi pass.It was then(mid 80's) a unique design.
Honestly...I was waiting for your reply all day as I knew it would make for an interesting read.
On point one I agree in general except that I did mention that using SPECIFIC drivers in a 2 way 1st order can sound very good because of wide frequency band and good natural roll off.
Using 4th order LK'S active is far less restrictive than passive as you can correct phase and amplitude electronically.
Lobing on a 2 way is easy to correct if you have control of the seating position.I am referring to near field monitors with a fixed seating position.
I had read about the famous SPICA TC50 but did not realize that I am honored to be speaking to the one and only! :eek:
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:eek: What did I do to get that kind of reply from you?
Please be kind enough point out exactly what post did I get my behind whipped!
Relax!! just read your sub post about the emo thread.Really I was just joking :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: -
Lord Vader wrote: »Leave Seafire to ME! He is no match for the power of the DARK SIDE!!! I must face him... alone!
Have another.....whatever it is your busy with -
Relax!! just read your sub post about the emo thread.Really I was just joking :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Really, the EMO thread is older than you in the Club Polk.
And I don't recall my **** whipped in the EMO thread. I just didn't want to argue with a few guys who think that EMOTIVA amp are of World Reference quality.
It'll be much like debating what is a World Class Speaker!Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
Seafart is a troll and he will be dealt with accordingly. I have sent probe droids to the far ends of the galaxy and soon he will be found. My lightsaber is ready...
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Lord Vader wrote: »Seafart is a troll and he will be dealt with accordingly. I have sent probe droids to the far ends of the galaxy and soon he will be found. My lightsaber is ready...
He is all yours! Like the rest, I gave up on him!Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
Really, the EMO thread is older than you in the Club Polk.
And I don't recall my **** whipped in the EMO thread. I just didn't want to argue with a few guys who think that EMOTIVA amp are of World Reference quality.
It'll be much like debating what is a World Class Speaker!
Hey! After posting I saw your add on on the bottom and I reacted in a friendly way....was really just joking -
I ask with respect to all that everyone refrain from posting further in this thread. It is only together with our combined strength that we can destroy him...
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Lord Vader wrote: »I ask with respect to all that everyone refrain from posting further in this thread. It is only together with our combined strength that we can destroy him...
LORD one question before I go.
Are you sure that you have the highest quality cable , crossovers and interconnects holding you together?I sure don't want to be around when your connections start failing
BIDI BIDI BIDI -
Indeed you did,I stand corrected.I did mention that using SPECIFIC drivers in a 2 way 1st order can sound very good
And I agree that if done correctly true 1st order systems can sound good though I'm not entirely convinced that their phase accuracy in itself is as big of a sonic advantage as their proponents would have me believe.
Yes the delay can be done electronically in an active setup,however with mine I chose to use a slanted baffle (approx. 10 degrees)to add the necessary delay to the tweeter.Using 4th order LR's active is far less restrictive than passive as you can correct phase and amplitude electronically.
In a passively crossed over system using a flat baffle , the time lead of the forward mounted tweeter can be compensated for by adjusting the values of the components in the hi pass section of the crossover.Using a good optimisation software will make this an easy task.
Huh,I had read about the famous SPICA TC50 but did not realize that I am honored to be speaking to the one and only! :eek:
I'm not claiming to be John Bau,I just used his unique xover design as an example. Testing
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LORD one question before I go.
Are you sure that you have the highest quality cable , crossovers and interconnects holding you together?I sure don't want to be around when your connections start failing
BIDI BIDI BIDI
I am quite certain that I possess the ability to end this destructive conflict and restore order to the galaxy. As for you, please leave and prey you annoy me no further. I will listen to my own advice and post in this thread no more... -
LOL "Easy" is a relative word.To my ear phase accuracy is very important as well as impulse response.Forgive me for thinking you are the one and only as your replies have been pretty advancedIndeed you did,I stand corrected.
And I agree that if done correctly true 1st order systems can sound good though I'm not entirely convinced that their phase accuracy in itself is as big of a sonic advantage as their proponents would have me believe.
Yes the delay can be done electronically in an active setup,however with mine I chose to use a slanted baffle (approx. 10 degrees)to add the necessary delay to the tweeter.
In a passively crossed over system using a flat baffle , the time lead of the forward mounted tweeter can be compensated for by adjusting the values of the components in the hi pass section of the crossover.Using a good optimisation software will make this an easy task.Huh,I'm not claiming to be John Bau,I just used his unique xover design as an example.
I would really like to stay in touch with you sharing some points in the future irrespective of what happens here!
Seafire -
ignorelord vader wrote: »i am quite certain that i possess the ability to end this destructive conflict and restore order to the galaxy. As for you, please leave and prey you annoy me no further. I will listen to my own advice and post in this thread no more... -
Lord Vader wrote: »Leave Seafire to ME! He is no match for the power of the DARK SIDE!!! I must face him... alone!
priceless panasonic th-50pz85u
pioneer elite vsx-92txh
pioneer elite bdp-05fd
emotiva xpa-3
monster power hdp 2550
sa 8300 hd dvr
sda 2b's
fronts - rti a9's
center - csi a6
surrounds - fxi a6's
sub - polk dsw pro 600
harmony one -
It is easy to change component values in the software and quickly see the results.LOL "Easy" is a relative word.
My priorities differ,most important is having smooth frequency response on and off axis.Next is the ability to handle dynamics without compression, and thirdly a wide listening window /lack of lobing errors.Generally speaking it is in these three performance aspects where 1st order systems usually fall short.To my ear phase accuracy is very important as well as impulse response.Testing
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Keeping it real boys, IMHO, speakers will last forever, especially if you never use them.
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The power of the Dark Side has kept the troll know as Seafart away for the past couple days. I would be grateful if nobody posts further in this thread as the best way to destroy a troll is to remove it's food supply. Please consider this thead as being dead. I would hate to leave a permanent garrison here as I did at the Gas Mines of Bespin.
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Lord Vader wrote: »The power of the Dark Side has kept the troll know as Seafart away for the past couple days. I would be grateful if nobody posts further in this thread as the best way to destroy a troll is to remove it's food supply. Please consider this thead as being dead. I would hate to leave a permanent garrison here as I did at the Gas Mines of Bespin.
My silence has nothing to do with you.Dream on as long as you call me insulting names :cool: -
Vader,
With all do respect, because I am but an Ewok, isnt what your doing trolling? I dont think the name calling is making this a better place and it certainly wont end this thread.Polk Audio Surround Bar 360
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Office stuff
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RT8t's & Wharfedale Diamond II's[/SIZE]
Life is one grand, sweet song, so start the music. ~Ronald Reagan -
I store mine in liquid nitrogen!
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
Getting back on subject. I've owned a lot of older speakers.
I haven't bought a new set since 1977. The closest to new Ive bought
since are demo RTI's from a CC showroom. So, any set I've
owned is past it's prime. What if speakers falling out of original spec sound
better? What sounds good to each one of use varies, so maybe a 10
year old set sounds better to me than a new set would of?
But, yes, cone edges and caps sooner or later give out. My Snell
type E's had new woofers and crossvers put in before I got them.
They sounded very good. So did the Valkyries, so do the Hales.
And the Valkyries were early 80's built. Bottom line, you'll get tired of
most speakers long before they are ready for the recyle bin.
The other close to new set, the Rega R3's are going out the door soon.
So worry not how old they are. Let your ears and eyes make the
call."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
I would say a really long time lol
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sucks2beme wrote: »Getting back on subject. I've owned a lot of older speakers.
I haven't bought a new set since 1977. The closest to new Ive bought
since are demo RTI's from a CC showroom. So, any set I've
owned is past it's prime. What if speakers falling out of original spec sound
better? What sounds good to each one of use varies, so maybe a 10
year old set sounds better to me than a new set would of?
But, yes, cone edges and caps sooner or later give out. My Snell
type E's had new woofers and crossvers put in before I got them.
They sounded very good. So did the Valkyries, so do the Hales.
And the Valkyries were early 80's built. Bottom line, you'll get tired of
most speakers long before they are ready for the recyle bin.
The other close to new set, the Rega R3's are going out the door soon.
So worry not how old they are. Let your ears and eyes make the
call.
I see.
The reason why I post this thread is: before I am trying to buy some new set of speakers I want to know how long they they last. I really don't want to start some pretty expensive (to me) investment and they can only last of few years long. So I just want to do some research before I buy.
But thanks all of yours input really appropriate them -
I have seen people post selling their 20 30 years old speakers and I have heard from my friend's house speakers they are 30 years old but still sound like in perfect condition. So I am wondering how long can speakers last? do they need tune up? I just got the VM serious can they last long?
How long your speak been with you? Any special treatment you need to keep it up?
i had my sda 10 year i got those from my dad he had from 14 year and as good as new -
Welcome to Club Polk!
The question for some of us will be whether or not our SDAs will outlast their 'master'?
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
SDA's have no master, for if you love them as much as I do you end up spending all you can to care for them properly (amps,cd players/turntables etc.) They actually are there like a great mistress. They provide pleasure imeasurable:DWelcome to Club Polk!
The question for some of us will be whether or not our SDAs will outlast their 'master'?
cnhThe Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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