Pure disapointment.........Polk LSi15

treitz3

cfrizz wrote:

I'm out of this. Those of you who have the knowledge of other lower powered amps that can handle the LSI's need to start speaking up then.

Cathy, I have a feeling that you think that I was pouncing on you. That was not my intention and if that's the way it came across, I apologize. Allow me to offer a suggestion......

Instead of saying that you need a minimum of 200 watts, say something like this, for example. "It is generally recommended that a minimum of 200 watts is required to properly power the LSi's, but you must also consider that this is a "general" rule. What can considerably change this "generalized" rule is doing some research on an amp that is rated and has the capability of handling a nominal 4 ohm load that also has the current capability or design structure/capacitance necessary to properly power them."

cfrizz wrote: »

And if some newbie blows up their new speakers with said amps you can also deal with the fallout!

There is no more worry with current than there is with watts when it comes to blowing up speakers. The same rules apply.

dorokusai wrote:

Since when did the Carver Amazing require 375wpc+?

Huh? I don't recall ever saying that. I was just stating that if you tried to power an Original ALS with a Carver M1.0t or a M1.5t, even though they are rated at well above 200 watts per channel, they will not power them properly tis' all.

heiney9

treitz3 wrote: »

Instead of saying that you need a minimum of 200 watts, say something like this, for example. "It is generally recommended that a minimum of 200 watts is required to properly power the LSi's, but you must also consider that this is a "general" rule. What can considerably change this "generalized" rule is doing some research on an amp that is rated and has the capability of handling a nominal 4 ohm load that also has the current capability or design structure/capacitance necessary to properly power them."

Cathy doesn't need anyone to defend her (she does it quite well herself) and I have no issue with you Treitz, but it becomes a slippery slope when you start suggesting how others should word their opinion and POV. Her point has always been well presented and that's her opinion. I see no need for her to broaden or soften it to make it more palpable to others.

H9

F1nut

New rule. You need 300wpc.

heiney9

F1nut wrote: »

New rule. You need 300wpc.

WOW, not a suggestion, but a rule. I'm way off. Guess I should pack my gear up and put in the closet until I can acquire the mandatory 300 wpc. :D

tonyb

I see the forum is back in rare form....again.:D

treitz3

Hey, she can take it or leave it. It was just a suggestion that would/could be a more accurate "blanket statement". I'm quite sure I, or anybody else for that matter will ever change her opinion.

Lowell_M

F1nut wrote: »

New rule. You need 300wpc.

Damn it. Now I have to buy a new amp. :eek:

heiney9

a_mattison wrote: »

Damn it. Now I have to buy a new amp. :eek:

I think your good......LSi's are 4 ohm load and the 555 is 325 wpc into 4 ohms. You just squeaked by

H9

treitz3

cfrizz wrote: »

If it is just that you don't want to scare people off with the truth of what is needed & the money it will cost to make the speakers sound their best, then you are doing them a great dis-service by not being consistent.

The goal should be to make sure that users are getting the most benefit from their gear. If that means spending more money up front to do so than so be it. Do it once & do it right the first time around then sit back & enjoy.

Just for the record, this is why I made the suggestion. I wasn't trying to be a dick or anything, but read what she wrote. The 200 watt minimum doesn't cover getting the most benefit...it's a start which is why I offered the suggestion.

heiney9

treitz3 wrote: »

Just for the record, this is why I made the suggestion. I wasn't trying to be a dick or anything, but read what she wrote. The 200 watt minimum doesn't cover getting the most benefit...it's a start which is why I offered the suggestion.

You are regular contributor and I never personally thought/think that and I doubt any regular contributor here thinks that. My post may have come across more harsh than I intended but my point was mixed in there. That's all.

H9

polkatese

4 pages of why LSi's need proper amplification?

yep, we're back to square one.again.

F1nut

Do it once & do it right the first time around then sit back & enjoy.

Yeah right! Like that ever happens.

heiney9

polkatese wrote: »

4 pages of why LSi's need proper amplification?

yep, we're back to square one.again.

Yea, but it's been a fun ride!!! If noobs would use the search feature these types of things wouldn't get rehashed all the time.............atleast not in an entirely new thread.

Such is the nature of these types of forums.

H9

MikeC78

I think Polk needs to place a disclaimer in the owner's manual on their LSi series. Explaining on how beneficial it would be to properly amplify the speakers, and not run them on a "run of the mill" AVR.

The average Joe has no idea on what he actually needs, and most of the salesman I've dealt were not educated on the subject matter either.

tonyb

MikeC78 wrote: »

I think Polk needs to place a disclaimer in the owner's manual on their LSi series. Explaining on how beneficial it would be to properly amplify the speakers, and not run them on a "run of the mill" AVR.

The average Joe has no idea on what he actually needs, and most of the salesman I've dealt were not educated on the subject matter either.

You have a point to a certain degree.....To avoid people bad mouthing speakers without proper set up or requirements being stated.I would imagine other speaker companies have the same problem.When you get higher up the food chain though,you never see higher end speakers being driven by an AVR.Is it common sense? Maybe higher end speaker companies take the time to show distributers how to display their products? I do wish Polk was more involved in that end of it.Basic audio knowledge is not common place in your local big box stores....sad in a way I guess.Presentation is everything,so they used to say.

heiney9

MikeC78 wrote: »

I think Polk needs to place a disclaimer in the owner's manual on their LSi series. Explaining on how beneficial it would be to properly amplify the speakers, and not run them on a "run of the mill" AVR.

The average Joe has no idea on what he actually needs, and most of the salesman I've dealt were not educated on the subject matter either.

Problem is then you are putting in print a generalizations plus if you exclude certain manufacturer's by name or product design you alienate consumers and other manufacturer's. It's up to the customer to research and find out if the product fits his needs.

For many people an AVR will be just fine because of how they use the LSi's. The point of this whole thread is don't be so hasty to throw the baby out with the bathwater. More investigation by the OP might have solved his displeasure with the product.

H9

MikeC78

I think it would be a great suggestion, and may open the eyes of the ignorant when they purchase them.

BTW, what about the people that purchase BOSE? Look at their sales figures, do you think the people that purchase them do their research?

obieone

The way I see it, the stores that sell these speakers aren't doing it right.
Shite! I was listening to a pr. of RTi12's, off an 90wpc avr, and the Tweeter clown told me that "you DON'T want to OVER amp these speakers- you'll blow them!"
Friggin 12's are rated @ 500wpc!!!
What's worse, is that Polk is-allegedly- gonna start selling via Best Buy.

LessisNevermore

heiney9 wrote: »

Shout out to another local Polkie :cool:. I'm up the street in Rockford.

Not to be a jerk but you kind of contradict yourself. Stating that the amp made them seem like new speakers and then closing with the amp requirement tends to a get bit overstated.

That's a contradiction to me. Sounds like there was a substantial improvement by adding an amp so how could it be overstated to endorse adding external amplification.

H9

No contradiction, the speakers sounded great with the avr, and there were no physical problems with running in that config. When the amp was attached, the clouds parted, bass response improved, yadda, yadda......

The overstatement comes, when an amp is adamantly said to be a requirement, to run LSi's. It's just not true, I know, I did it. They did not implode/explode/melt/disintegrate. Hell, my Denon never even got overly warm. (and I like to go loud)

The amp was a substantial improvement, and was always part of the upgrade path, as I believe it should be for all LSi owners, but you can eek by with a decent avr, and have a great sounding system, until funds are available. Key word being, decent.

Sami

I ran 5 LSi7's with HK AVR7200 and neer had any problems. Loud, very loud. Of course, it's TOTL receiver from HK so the power is there. Never tried it with the 15's but I don't think it would have any problem powering them either. Decent sound quality as well, made the LSi's sing very well, still using it for the surrounds (otherwise it's a preamp now). Some external amps are an improvement over it, some are definitely not.

ward91

mule wrote: »

In the interest of the original topic....

I'm a relative newb and come here to try and learn and not make the same mistakes many, including myself have made.

So I will post these links to help people like myself, to many it will seem boring and redundant but I think more constructive than insulting others likes and dislikes...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071214134405AAwsfRj


http://www.bkcomp.com/fileadmin/content/bk_support/FAQ/high%20current%20amps.pdf

Maybe others know of better links to educate, please post.

I would also be curious of the technical reasons a tube amp might sound better with less wattage, so please post a link if you know of one that might explain this, hell, I could end up with 4 home made mono tube amps powering the ht, it would also help to heat the house in the winter

i know this isn’t a pro discussion but where do pro amps come into this?? i would have thought a watt is a watt. if you run out you clip.
is a high current amp one witch has a multi rail psu??
“High-current
amplifiers will not shut down when the speaker presents a difficult load due to varying dynamics in
source material.”
So what a low current design will? even if within the rated impedance

“A “high-current” amplifier is capable of delivering power into low impedance loads (speakers)
without going into protection and/or shutting down”.
So here (the link below) we have all high current top notch hi-fi audiophile amps?? As they wont shut down due to low impedance loads or go into protection. (not saying some wont kick **** but some will suck as a hi-fi amp)


http://www.thomann.de/gb/amps_up_to_800_w.html

ward91

ps. dot digging the mule

also relating to what i know,
my crown xs 500 pro amp(which i love to listen to music through on my hi-fi floorstanders ). is rated 400wrms@8ohms , 500wrms@4ohms, and 750wrms@2ohms. by the saying of Bkcomp in the 2nd link this will make my amp a high voltage and low current as it doesn’t double output as impedance halves. but also goes against what they say because it CAN continually drive a 2ohm load.
or is this just crown rating their amps "wrong".

i do however agree that a higher current design would fair a lot better with a low impedance or challenging load than a higher voltage design.

mightymouse

If you really want tons of power for not a lot of money, you can look into pro amps.

Behringer makes one that outputs 1,200 watts per channel x2 into 2 ohms. It is stable down into 2 ohms. Not many consumer grade amps can make this kind of claim with a straight face. Just be careful don't blow out your woofers.:D

http://www.behringer.com/EP2500/index.cfm?lang=eng

Of course with pro amps, they are probably biased much more towards the class B end compared to consumer grade amps. And pro amps use active cooling as opposed to passive cooling, so you have to keep the amp tucked behind some cabinet or something to avoid hearing the fan noise.

But if money is tight, pro amps are a great way to add some serious power to your speakers.

Sami

Cheap power and most of the cases also cheap sound. I tried running a Samson S1000 (500W * 2) with RTi150's, oh boy, not very good. Some people seem to like Crown amps with home equipment but I haven't heard any myself so can't comment if they are much better. Behringer, I wouldn't match them with home audio speakers myself.

mightymouse

Sami, what didn't you like about the Samson?

Face

It was probably bright sounding, like many pro audio amps.

ward91

again a bit off topic but, i would prefer just from looking ,that my crown amp drive a set of speakers continually at higher volumes than a carver, but then again what would the sound difference be like? I know they are meant to sound amazingly good but, I wouldn’t be at “peace of mind” as apparently the carvers can flame?? So what will the carver be rated if it is rated due to thermal limitation?

Sami

mightymouse wrote: »

Sami, what didn't you like about the Samson?

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61705

Posts 7 & 9.

mightymouse

Thanks Sami for the link.

Well, pro amps are designed with an emphasis on linear response and maximum power. Maybe this is the reason why pro amps sound bright. Many people find studio monitors sound bright as well.

My guess is that the Carver amp, and many consumer grade amps probably shave a couple of db from the top end, to make them sound more mellow.

treitz3

ward91 wrote: »

again a bit off topic but, i would prefer just from looking ,that my crown amp drive a set of speakers continually at higher volumes than a carver, but then again what would the sound difference be like? I know they are meant to sound amazingly good but, I wouldn’t be at “peace of mind” as apparently the carvers can flame?? So what will the carver be rated if it is rated due to thermal limitation?

You have the Carver M1.5t and it has an internal cutoff once it reaches a certain internal temperature. When the internal temperature exceeds the limit, the overload light at the left of the faceplate of the amp turns on and the amp shuts down. It will not "flame up" as you say. The sound difference should be totally different. Carver had a "t" mod done on that amp that is emulated to sound like a tube amp, unlike a pro amp.