Pear backs out of the cable challenge

jdhdiggs

Mark, Shack, et al: If you want to start a thread talking about cable design, that's where it would have to go, no? That was the point which was obviously missed- What else would a thread talking about cable design talk about? It would just circle back to the "I hear a difference!" "No you don't argument". Must not have been a long enough of a stay at the Holiday Inn if you didn't get that. :rolleyes:

If you disagree, point out what you disagree with in the post.

Lowell_M

jdhdiggs wrote: »

6 sigma, DOE? Already outdated concepts, unfortuantely most of US manufacturing is about 5-10 years behind in these regards, but that's for a whole different thread.

Um... Ok, whatever. This could start another debate, but just because 6-sigma and good ol' DOE are "old" concepts, doesn't mean they aren't good tools for engineering. I'm talking about design concepts, not 6-sigma manufacturing quality control. 6-sigma design is all about understanding the variability in your processes and applying it to how that variability effects your design so that you can design products that work. You can't design something if you dont' understand how variability effects performance. I would say that 80% of the mechanical engineers out there follow a strict "change one factor at a time" practice in studying how changes to a design effect performance. In reality, effects are usually the result of a combination of factors that can not be understood by changing one factor at a time. ...in comes DOE. They are tools that are rarely used properly, not a fad.

shack

I appears your point was that even though many on this fourm build their own speakers, mod their own gear, build their own cables, have various post secondary education degrees, etc. that you would be pressed to find even 5 who would understand and are able to discuss intelligently the physics of cable design, especially since "most people still haven't figured out Ohms law and power equations".

jakelm

shack wrote: »

I appears your point was that even though many on this fourm build their own speakers, mod their own gear, build their own cables, have various post secondary education degrees, etc. that you would be pressed to find even 5 who would understand and are able to discuss intelligently the physics of cable design, especially since "most people still haven't figured out Ohms law and power equations".

I'm just happy that companies color code those connections for me...:D

Now I just have to figure out how to turn on this darn flashlight to see behind that big heavy thing, that plays my music.,

jdhdiggs

shack wrote: »

I appears your point was that even though many on this fourm build their own speakers, mod their own gear, build their own cables, have various post secondary education degrees, etc. that you would be pressed to find even 5 who would understand and are able to discuss intelligently the physics of cable design, especially since "most people still haven't figured out Ohms law and power equations".

Yup, that would be right. Putting together cables or speakers is pretty simple, so is upgrading them. How many of them model the speakers before putting them together? Or is it mostly hit or miss, learn, and try again. Hence the difference between assembiling and design.

using another bad car anology: Just because I can change the oil, tires, and brakes on the car, or even put together a kit car doesn't make me qualified to go be the lead design engineer for GM. Putting things together and designing them are very different ideas. With speakers, amplifiers, etc, there are very easy to measure macro variables and you don't need to get into physics at all.

A_matt: Those concepts do exactly what you describe, but unfortunately lead to less innovation and longer time to market hence the need for newer methods.

Lowell_M

jdhdiggs wrote: »

Yup, that would be right. Putting together cables or speakers is pretty simple, so is upgrading them. How many of them model the speakers before putting them together? Or is it mostly hit or miss, learn, and try again. Hence the difference between assembiling and design.

using another bad car anology: Just because I can change the oil, tires, and brakes on the car, or even put together a kit car doesn't make me qualified to go be the lead design engineer for GM. Putting things together and designing them are very different ideas.

A_matt: Those concepts do exactly what you describe, but unfortunately lead to less innovation and longer time to market hence the need for newer methods.

:DI'm a big fan of the car analogies.

Sounds like you understand what I'm saying. good points. I'm unfortunately a little jaded right now because the company that I am leaving is even behind the concepts of 6-sigma and can't design their way out of a paper bad (which is one of the reasons I'm leaving)

jakelm

jdhdiggs wrote: »

using another bad car anology: Just because I can change the oil, tires, and brakes on the car, or even put together a kit car doesn't make me qualified to go be the lead design engineer for GM. Putting things together and designing them are very different ideas. With speakers, amplifiers, etc, there are very easy to measure macro variables and you don't need to get into physics at all.

.

But you dont have to be a GM engineer to put together a car. or to understand the parts and how they work.

RuSsMaN

Shack, sit down, have some applesauce with us. It's yummy.

jdhdiggs

jakelm wrote: »

But you dont have to be a GM engineer to put together a car. or to understand the parts and how they work.

I'll concede that with no response. :eek:

heiney9

jdhdiggs wrote: »

using another bad car anology: Just because I can change the oil, tires, and brakes on the car, or even put together a kit car doesn't make me qualified to go be the lead design engineer for GM. Putting things together and designing them are very different ideas. With speakers, amplifiers, etc, there are very easy to measure macro variables and you don't need to get into physics at all.

One word: FIERO

shack

RuSsMaN wrote:

Shack, sit down, have some applesauce with us. It's yummy.

Sounds good. Now if I can only figure how to get the lid off the jar. They make these things so darned complicated.

hearingimpared

I think when an engineer posts in any thread on this forum he should be required to dumb it down for imbeciles like me!:D

steveinaz

The nay-sayers are right. There is no difference. Nay-sayers--send me all your IC's and speaker wires; I've got a hefty bag full of .99 cent IC's and some lamp cord I'll exchange with you, because, as you know--there is no difference.

I await your shipments....

dudeinaroom

steve, over flow can be sent this way as I have a cable recycling program going on.

steveinaz

...what? No takers? Come'on...I admit it, you guys are right. Send me your cables, I've got some great nickle-plated, plastic connector IC's--brand new, just for you. I think they may even be real copper---oh, that's right...wire is wire--well whatever. They have some kind of wire in them anyway.

still awaiting your shipments...

reeltrouble1

thing is the mathematician responsible for the mathematics of modern day engineering advancements was a philosopher. fellow spent a good deal of time writing his thoughts proving the existence of a higher power, which for me and him would be God.....hmmmm wide-eyed paranormal experience???????????.............but then there is the analytical geometry he is repsonsible for without which you cannot get to the equations of calculus.............

That darn empirical data again

I think therefore I am........

set me up a bowl sauce with the rest of the resident dumbo's, what time is Ohm's law on, hope its better than Boston Legal????

RT1

jakelm

Lamp cords make some of the best speaker wire. And I bet a great IC too.....:p:p



No.....you cant have my MONSTER cable...

jakelm

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

thing is the mathematician responsible for the mathematics of modern day engineering advancements was a philosopher. fellow spent a good deal of time writing his thoughts proving the existence of a higher power, which for me and him would be God.....hmmmm wide-eyed paranormal experience???????????.............but then there is the analytical geometry he is repsonsible for without which you cannot get to the equations of calculus.............


RT1

Thing is ..He was a Scientologist...

steveinaz

I've got the "good" lamp cord--oopps, there I go again--cord is cord. I've got the brown lamp cord, you know, with the ridges on one side so you can maintain polarity (I think it's snake oil myself).

hmmm...I think my PM thingy is broke. No PM's with shipping info, no emails. Hmmm

heiney9

ALL..........and I mean ALL the blame lies with the electrons. If they would behave themselves there wouldn't be a need for more than one kind of cable.

I'm telling ya.........misbehaving electrons are what have caused us to turn against each other.

H9

jakelm

heiney9 wrote: »

ALL..........and I mean ALL the blame lies with the electrons. If they would behave themselves there wouldn't be a need for more than one kind of cable.

I'm telling ya.........misbehaving electrons are what have caused us to turn against each other.

H9

You just using you BIAS opinion to cover for the protons and nuetrons.:mad:

You always had it out for electrons....:mad::mad:

shack

reeltrouble1 wrote:

I think therefore I am........

Ahhhh...Philosophy.

There is the oft quoted:

"That what I don't know, I don't think I know" - Socrates

and who could forget:

"To do is to be" - Nietzsche
"To be is to do" - Kant
"Do Be Do Be Do" - Sinatra

shack

I couldn't get the damn applesauce lid off...so I just stuck an apple in the blender.

Bon appetite!

reeltrouble1

shack wrote: »

Ahhhh...Philosophy.

There is the oft quoted:

"That what I don't know, I don't think I know" - Socrates

and who could forget:

"To do is to be" - Nietzsche
"To be is to do" - Kant
"Do Be Do Be Do" - Sinatra

well, of course my favorite might be

Yabba Dabba Doo---Fred Flinstone

steveinaz

...hmmm, it's been 3 hours and know one wants to trade in their cables?

Come on my fellow non-believers, free yourselves of this aweful placebo effect. Bring me your weary, hungry old cables. I've got "snake-oil removed" 99 cent IC's that will set you free. These cables pass electricity like anything else, right? You'll be able to proudly procalim to your buddies that YOUR system is wired entirely with Sam's Club interconnect cables, and it sounds wonderful---cause cables don't matter.

Chant it with me brothers: "cables don't matter, even if yours are fatter, cables don't matter..."

hehe

jakelm

i would but then...we will trade..and you wont hear a difference...then you will want to ship them back to me....and want me to pay shippping....and when I refuse..you 'll give me a bad name with a negative feedback..and it will cause all kinds of ****...then we will argue in some thread..and i'll have to stop them from banning you...and now i would have my cables plus your lamp cords...my wife would get upset...cause i have cables all over the place..i would have to tell her off...she would call the law...i get arrested for verbal cable abuse...i get thrown in jail....bubba likes me....i end up your house, to get my shipping money back....it doesnt go well....we argue some more...it ruins my day....i get get home and the wife has left with the kids, never to return.....then hits me up for child support....i get thrown back in jail...cause i wont pay..cause i cant...cause you have my shipping money......i become a bumm on the side of a road in a box....to die unhappy and of starvation.....

All because i decided to trade cables with you....

steveinaz

Lol!

hearingimpared

LOL!!! That is the best one yet!

steveinaz

I figured it would get quiet around here...damn kids.

You know, I have rule at my house--anyone caught talking about work, gets thrown in the pool--regardless of attire, outdoor temperature, pool water temperature. We should do a similar thing here at Club Polk. Anyone caught arguing about cables has to sit in time out for 3 days, listening only to an Emerson ghetto blaster as a music source.

Do you believe cables make a difference? No one cares.
Do you believe cables make no difference? Again, no one cares.

MGPK

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

thing is the mathematician responsible for the mathematics of modern day engineering advancements was a philosopher. fellow spent a good deal of time writing his thoughts proving the existence of a higher power, which for me and him would be God.....hmmmm wide-eyed paranormal experience???????????.............but then there is the analytical geometry he is repsonsible for without which you cannot get to the equations of calculus.............

That darn empirical data again

I think therefore I am........

set me up a bowl sauce with the rest of the resident dumbo's, what time is Ohm's law on, hope its better than Boston Legal????

RT1

Man, did this ever go off course. How do you go from debating how cables sound (I thought that speakers provided sound for an audio system) to Gottfried Liebnez, Descartes and Fred Flinstone.