Pear backs out of the cable challenge

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  • jakelm
    jakelm Posts: 4,081
    edited October 2007
    I beleieve there is a step up on certain cable....for sure...

    But if a cable has a 100% ground and a 0% loss, how can it get any better?

    Gold plated vers. silver plated vers. nickel plated? If the signal is not autenuated and the signal has full ground. Whats the difference?
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  • jakelm
    jakelm Posts: 4,081
    edited October 2007
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    Here you go, Ben makes a really nice cable. I have them in my rig.


    Perfect example...Ben makes great cables for $100. I'm sure he specs it out to an extent. 0% autenuation and 100% ground. Same cable for $7500 (0% autenuation and 100% ground), give me a break......:confused:
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!:eek:
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  • jflail2
    jflail2 Posts: 2,868
    edited October 2007
    Thx Mattison :) I'll be buying from Ben it looks like, as his prices are very reasonable, and I like supporting a "local" producer.
    2007 Club Polk Football Pool Champ

    2010 Club Polk Fantasy Football Champ

    2011 Club Polk Football Pool Champ


    "It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!"
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  • jakelm
    jakelm Posts: 4,081
    edited October 2007
    But I dont think the issue is, weather someone "thinks" its better or not.

    The issue is weather it "is" better cable.

    Some one says Bose is better. Ok they believe that.

    But we can show that from dynamic range graphs, watts per hz specs and millions of other test, that Bose is not better.

    If your car does 120mph in 12 seconds and its red and another car does 120mph in 12 seconds and its silver, then you say mine is faster cause its red. Well....i dont know what to say about that.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!:eek:
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  • Yashu
    Yashu Posts: 772
    edited October 2007
    So if something sonically, physically and/or electronically has been changed, then it CAN be measured.

    Yes. I said this in the last thread before the last thread and got reamed for saying it... so... everything sounds the same and measurements don't matter except for monster, who makes the best cable money can buy because that is what it said at best buy.
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2007
    Sami wrote:
    So why are these people who claim to hear a difference having so much trouble to prove it?

    Why do you care?
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited October 2007
    jakelm wrote: »
    Perfect example...Ben makes great cables for $100. I'm sure he specs it out to an extent. 0% autenuation and 100% ground. Same cable for $7500 (0% autenuation and 100% ground), give me a break......:confused:

    They are solid silver and braided a certan way. The third or ground wire is only grounded on the source side. One the high frequencies, they are very open and airy sounding and much more detailed resolution sounding compared to the cables I was using. ON the bass side the bass was more extended and present compared to the cables I was using.
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  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited October 2007
    shack wrote: »
    Why do you care?

    Why do people care to bash on Randi when he has a very valid claim?
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  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited October 2007
    jakelm wrote: »
    If your car does 120mph in 12 seconds and its red and another car does 120mph in 12 seconds and its silver, then you say mine is faster cause its red. Well....i dont know what to say about that.

    LOL, it's a perfect example of people claiming cable A is better than cable B when they can't prove it. Trust your ears...well, if you trust them you can do the blind test without a problem yet everyone just throws out excuses.
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2007
    Sami wrote: »
    Why do people care to bash on Randi when he has a very valid claim?

    This has nothing to do with Randi...I said all I'm going to about him.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited October 2007
    shack wrote: »
    This has nothing to do with Randi...I said all I'm going to about him.

    Last I checked that's what this thread was about. Not whether you believe certain cables are better than others, but whether one can actually hear the difference and prove it.
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2007
    Sami wrote: »
    LOL, it's a perfect example of people claiming cable A is better than cable B when they can't prove it. Trust your ears...well, if you trust them you can do the blind test without a problem yet everyone just throws out excuses.

    There you go....channeling WilliamM2 again.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited October 2007
    Sami wrote: »
    I am not a naysayer as I don't know for one way or another which way it is. Would I like to hear different cables? Sure. Would I hear a difference between two quality cables? Who knows but if I do I shouldn't have trouble proving I do. So why are these people who claim to hear a difference having so much trouble to prove it?

    Some people are terrified at the thought that you would like to see them pick out a cable, and the defense mechanisms kick in and soapboxing ensues on all sides. I don't think its so much 'trouble to prove it', as it is 'opportunity to prove it.' ...and for those that 'don't have to prove it', well, don't.

    I think it would be very cool to see it done in person. I would try to learn from them (what nuances tipped you off to cable A, etc). Some people may hate and fear me for these statements, but its a risk I'm willing to take. ;)

    Seriously, who wouldn't like to see a forum member pick out cable A 100% of the time and teach you what they heard? That would be a lot more fun than all the soapboxing around here lately.
    Never Forget
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited October 2007
    jakelm wrote: »
    But we can show that from dynamic range graphs, watts per hz specs and millions of other test, that Bose is not better.

    And there in lies your issue. You are relying on graphs and specs to say this speaker is better than that. My question is, "how does it sound?" If you say, "I don't know because I haven't heard it," then I'm going to say the people who like Bose have and they like it despite the graphs and specs. Can anyone, anywhere, at anytime dispute what Bose lovers love about Bose? I won't just like if someone tells me that SDAs are a gimmick and don't sound good because they are a gimmick.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited October 2007
    jakelm wrote: »
    I beleieve there is a step up on certain cable....for sure...

    But if a cable has a 100% ground and a 0% loss, how can it get any better?

    Gold plated vers. silver plated vers. nickel plated? If the signal is not autenuated and the signal has full ground. Whats the difference?

    Only way to know for yourself is to experiment. And that's not a sarcastic answer, it's the truth.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited October 2007
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Only way to know for yourself is to experiment. And that's not a sarcastic answer, it's the truth.

    That's true but to get accurate results you need someone else to swap the cables and not tell you which one is in. You only listen and do not look at the cables.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited October 2007
    Folks. I said I'd do the test. I'm not backing out or giving an excuse either. Why should I? I am, however NOT going to say I have paranormal whatever.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2007
    Sami wrote: »
    That's true but to get accurate results you need someone else to swap the cables and not tell you which one is in. You only listen and do not look at the cables.

    Been there...done that.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited October 2007
    Sami wrote: »
    LOL, it's a perfect example of people claiming cable A is better than cable B when they can't prove it. Trust your ears...well, if you trust them you can do the blind test without a problem yet everyone just throws out excuses.

    Yeah that's real good. . . the red cable sounds better than the silver one. You've heard plenty of audiophiles say that.:rolleyes:
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2007
    I'm outta here...

    All the sudden I'm craving some apple pie...;)
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited October 2007
    Sami wrote: »
    That's true but to get accurate results you need someone else to swap the cables and not tell you which one is in. You only listen and do not look at the cables.

    Wrong again. It doesn't matter whether I know which cable is in or out those are your stipulations which I don't need.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,557
    edited October 2007
    WilliamM2 added to my BOZO list.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited October 2007
    PolkThug wrote: »
    Seriously, who wouldn't like to see a forum member pick out cable A 100% of the time and teach you what they heard?

    I would rather beat myself to death with a wrench.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited October 2007
    dorokusai wrote: »
    I would rather beat myself to death with a wrench.

    Nah, one of F1nuts MIT Shotgun boxes that would be more painful.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited October 2007
    F1nut wrote: »
    WilliamM2 added to my BOZO list.

    So tell me, how does the BOZO list work?
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited October 2007
    F1nut wrote: »
    WilliamM2 added to my BOZO list.


    I'm crushed.:rolleyes:
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,557
    edited October 2007
    Well, you read enough of someone's posts to determine that their viewpoint isn't worth reading and then simply add their name to your BOZO list. After that, you can't see what they write.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,029
    edited October 2007
    I want to be on a Bozo list. I feel left out.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited October 2007
    treitz3 wrote: »
    I want to be on a Bozo list. I feel left out.

    Gotcha covered.;)




















































    Regards Special K:D
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited October 2007
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    I'm crushed.:rolleyes:

    I have to say you are a very gracious and fun guy even though . . . well I'll leave it at that!
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