wanting more powerful sound from new system

AndyGwis

I was still talking about using the space above the TV where the two areas are separated with the "brace."


untitled.bmp

okiebirdnerd

Andy are you talking about having the center speaker where it is now and having a frame to brace it? If that is the case I think I'd rather talk to a welder and have something made less bulky bolted to the slide out shelf the TV sits on. I like the idea of moving the speakers in a bit but since we have the rack on one side of the TV we only have the 4' shelf on each end to work with.

okiebirdnerd

If I put the csi5 in front of my TV it will protrude 8 1/2 in front of the cabinet. I can almost see my 10 month old grand daughter running right into it....I got a ladder and did some measuring..there's only 16" difference in having my cabinet maker tear out the top section and sitting it above the cabinet. Will 16" make that much difference?

AndyGwis

I'm still talking about putting it ontop of the TV. I attached a very simple diagram above of what I would tell my cabinet maker to do, if I were in a similar position.

how the hell do you attach a picture so it shows in the thread, not as a link?

okiebirdnerd

select the paper clip for adding a pic

okiebirdnerd

Okay I understand..but my question is, if I set it on top of the cabinets, it will only be 16" higher than what you show. Is 16" that critical? It would cost more than a center speaker to have him rebuild on site?

jakelm

The crown will not hold if the center brace is removed? I dont see why it wouldnt. That would be the ideal place to put it. If it cant be removed then your options are extremely few.

jakelm

AndyGwis wrote: »

I'm still talking about putting it ontop of the TV. I attached a very simple diagram above of what I would tell my cabinet maker to do, if I were in a similar position.

how the hell do you attach a picture so it shows in the thread, not as a link?

Advanced. Attatchments. Upload from computer. Browse. Upload. Close window

AndyGwis

Well, if you go with the second poorly done diagram I created (the one on the right), you could likely do it yourself. Remove the middle brace without destroying it, buy a piece of wood the same size, stain it to match, and install on either side of the CSi5. Yes, I think 16" would make a difference sonically, as well as having it not look nearly as good.

Wouldn't cost much, if you can handle the labor that would be needed. Staining and installing a brace or two couldn't be too hard, though.

okiebirdnerd

What I was saying about the crown was if he did it in his shop...we'd have to have all new crown cut...between the glue and nails the crown would splinter.

AndyGwis

If I were in your shoes and had the time, I'd be at Home Depot or Lowe's right now getting a hand saw, some wood for new braces some stain/varnish, wood screws, wood glue, etc. and just go to town. I'm sure you could remove the current brace without too much fuss, even if you just cut it out.

Then again, I'm an idiot.

okiebirdnerd

So neither of you think having a center raised panel removed on a cabinet door below the TV would work. He could add that mesh stuff like they use on speakers.

disneyjoe7

Put it on top it's a look thing more then a sound thing IMHO.

jakelm

okiebirdnerd wrote: »

So neither of you think having a center raised panel removed on a cabinet door below the TV would work. He could add that mesh stuff like they use on speakers.

Heres the problem with that. The front stage needs to be close to the same level (horizontaly) together. If you start putting left and right speakers @ 5' from the ground and then place a center speaker 2-3' from the ground, things will sound very out of place. I would not go over 1-1.5' higher or lower than the rest of the front stage (front left and right).

Surrounds are "supposed" to go alittle higher than the front speakers, but can be cheated alot. Front speakers , not so much.

To sum it up, try to keep your left, right and center speakers as close to level as you can. That would be ideal. If your not picky and it doesnt really matter how your HT sounds, then put it below the tv in the cabinets.

okiebirdnerd

In the next few weeks I'm having my kitchen gutted and all new cabinets built. With all the money the builder is getting, maybe I can get him to throw that little project in for free:)
Doing it your way the center will be 80" from the ground..I don't mean to be argumentive but if I had 8' ceilings I'd tend to agree that 16" is critical...I guess I'm thinking with the span of 12' high, tilting the speaker down might have a better chance of hitting us and not going straight into my open kitchen in the background ...it's probably has a 9' opening to it. Did that make any sense at all?

jakelm

okiebirdnerd wrote: »

In the next few weeks I'm having my kitchen gutted and all new cabinets built. With all the money the builder is getting, maybe I can get him to throw that little project in for free:)
Doing it your way the center will be 80" from the ground..I don't mean to be argumentive but if I had 8' ceilings I'd tend to agree that 16" is critical...I guess I'm thinking with the span of 12' high, tilting the speaker down might have a better chance of hitting us and not going straight into my open kitchen in the background ...it's probably has a 9' opening to it. Did that make any sense at all?

Yes, made sense. I just dont care for a center chanel to be that close to the floor and so much lower then the mains. Ifeel your still better off putting it on to of the tv and tilting it down towards the listener.

Now if everything was lower, then yes. But in a HT, the mains "should" be level with the Tv, and the center, not far off ( right on top or right below).

AndyGwis

16" doesn't seem like much, but it would make the angle much greater between ear level and the speaker. You could put it on top and tilt it down, but again, I would think that a second or third option.

Ask the builder if he can find a way to put the speaker ontop of the TV by removing the brace, then go from there.

I guess another option would be to put it where it is now (in front of the TV) and install a wood board to extend out from the current edge of the cabinet. It would stick out, like you were saying, but that might be an okay option. Might not look as good, which I feel is important, but it would allow the speaker to be at/near ear level and you wouldn't be majorly changing anything.

okiebirdnerd

Okay I think I'll order the csi5 and listen to it the next few weeks and decide if it's going to be okay sticking out. I think I can run a thin piece of sheet metal under the sliding shelf the TV is on and it will support the speaker until I decide where it will sound the best...I can see how it sounds above the cabinet tilted down while we're at it.
Now back to the sub. Would the cylinder one work? I would probably look the best...but I'm not against the e-design..there is 250 difference in price which would pay for the center speaker..Oh yeah, is it okay to put the sub in the corner? ..I know someone suggested spending 2 grand but I need to be realistic...I don't want to push my luck here...I am getting the kitchen of my dreams in the next few weeks:)...and if it weren't for my husbands addiction to sportstv he probably wouldn't even listen to my speaker proposition:)..actually I'm kinda making him think the speaker project is for him since I'm getting my kitchen..okay you can call me a **** now...I know I'm getting the better end of the deal and he deserves better:)

jakelm

Sub, cylinder, SVS in corner. Yes

CSi5. Yes

RTi6. Yes

Do like Nike and JUST DO IT>>>:D

Shannon W.

On a funny note it you end up getting a SvS sub, Be prepared to be fixing all your nick knacks on you built in. The reason I say that is because I'm always fixing pictures and straighting the paintings on the walls. LoL
Good luck on what ever you end up doing.
Shannon

okiebirdnerd

Well I need to get outside and work on my ponds....I'll see what a few others say about the sub before I order anything..

Ron Temple

SVS would probably recommend the Ultra for your room size, but from my experience you'll be extremely happy with the 25-31 Plus. It's got the most output of the single Plus models...you're gonna love it.

okiebirdnerd

Ron, what is the difference in the 16-46 pc plus and the 25-31 pc plus?

jakelm

46 is 46" tall. Bass is deeper but not as loud.

31 is 31" tall. Not as much very deep bass but louder.

Ron Temple

okiebirdnerd wrote: »

Ron, what is the difference in the 16-46 pc plus and the 25-31 pc plus?

It's taller...really looks like a water heater. It's tuned to 16hz native (all the Plus subs have variable tuning) which allows it to go subsonic. Extreme low frequency effects in movies are felt as well as heard. It's also has the flattest frequency response of the SVS subs and is very musical, however all this is at the expense of output. Conversely the 25-31 is tuned to 25hz in the shortest cylinder. This gives it more dynamics, punch and output. In native tune it will extend to 20hz which is right at the bottom of human hearing. I think it's the right combination for you, it should sound a bit tighter. In short, the 16-46 crumbles foundations but not as loud and with less midbass punch. The 25-31 still goes low, but will have more kick and is more tuneful, IMO.

All these adjectives might make you think there's too much testosterone in the room, but SVS makes excellent products, the sound is very clean. It won't add any bass that isn't there, but if it is...watch out...you will be tacking down loose objects.

AndyGwis

Once your husband is watching Football in HD with surround sound kickin, I don't he gives you much grief for your purchases.

And, again, don't fear buying speakers used. RTi series only came out a few years ago so even used ones are bound to be in very good condition. Check Craigslist as that would be local. . . so you can view speaker condition before purchasing. Or, better yet, post a WTB in our flea market forum and you'll get some responses.

Grimster74

My turn to chime in here (for what it's worth) beings everyone else on the forum has already done so. First, welcome okiebirdnerd, sorry to hear about you current situation but leave it up to us, we'll get ya up and running the way it should be and we have no problems telling other people how to spend their money. LOL!!!

The first thing I'd like to discuss is the modification of the cabinet to compensate for the new CSi5 center speaker you are interested inn. Being a furniture builder myself, if the cabinet maker is a true cabinet maker, chances are, removing or modifying any of the trim and/or supports of that cabinet and going to be more of a task then most people are up to dealing with. Between the glue, finish nails, type of joints the builder used you will probally tear up more than you want too. My suggestion would be, and this is depended upon how the cabinet builder constructed the top (flat surface, etc.) have him construct a ramp (for a better word) type shelf that sits on the very top of the shelf aimed at the listening position. Yes, i know the speakers will not be at the same listening level but that is why most receivers have settings like "speaker height, high, mid or low and distances to the listening position" to compensate for the difference. That way you won't have to pay your cabinet builder an arm and a leg to modify something he has already built and finished.

Second thing, I would have to agree with most of the recommendations that have already been posted about upgrading the rest of the speakers. I would consider going with either the RTi8's or RTi10's. The reason I recommend these two towers are, the RTi12's are amazing speakers but unless you have a dedicated amp, I think you are going to starve your receiver by trying to power the 12's as well as the rest of the speakers. I see you are thinking about purchasing new subwoofers also. Well whether it be HSU, SVS or even Polk subwoofers, using either the 8 or 10's, your subwoofers are designed to carry the low end of the frequency while you towers will then be used to maintain the mid and upper frequencies.

My suggestion, if you haven't already tried, don't have time to read this whole thread, PLACEMENT. Placement is key when setting up a H/T room. Try moving your front speakers a little closer to the tv to see if that improvements the sound. If you've narrowed down all these possibilities then yes, its time to jump on the upgrade train again. If you have any other questions, we here at the Polk forum never seem to sleep.

McLoki

CSi5 should not be a problem on top of the cabinet. If you click on this link it will take you to my showcase. If you look at the picture with my tower speakers in it, you will see my current setup. It is not shown in the picture (picture was before I got the stand for my center channel), but the center channel is on top of my tv. That puts it about 30" above the top of my front speakers. It is not ideal at all, but it is what worked in my room with minimal modifications and sounds great. It may not be the best it can sound in my room, but it is a compromise I am willing to live with.

SVS - if the water heater subs are what you like due to limited floorspace - that is what you should get. (I have the 25-31cs+ (unpowered)) If you want it mainly for movies - I would recommend the middle cylindar (20-39) It is a good compromise between the other two. Before you purchase any sub though, call SVS and get their opinion. Tell them your room size and what you want out of a subwoofer and they will not steer you wrong. Even if you decide not to go with an SVS, the information and understanding you get will make the call well worthwhile.

Good luck and keep the questions coming....

Michael

okiebirdnerd

I got confirmation my csi5 was shipped. Hopefully it will arrive by Friday:) My husband wants to call SVS and talk to them. Guess I need to have him read up on the Ultra before he calls since Ron said they would probably suggest it:)I'll let you know what we end up with:)
Thanks for your help guys!!

Ron Temple

okiebirdnerd wrote: »

My husband wants to call SVS and talk to them. Guess I need to have him read up on the Ultra before he calls since Ron said they would probably suggest it:)I'll let you know what we end up with:)
Thanks for your help guys!!

They might suggest the NSD/2 or Plus/2 for your space. The new Ultra kind of makes the Plus/2 obsolete, similar performance, smaller size, better sound quality, same price point. If your budget can swing it, you'll have the best they offer. It's new and from all reports it exceeds the performance of nearly everything on the market costing thousands more. However, you'll be extremely happy with a Plus. You've never experienced this type of bass before, it will be better than most theatres.