wanting more powerful sound from new system

okiebirdnerd

The only way I can have my surrounds at 6' is for them to not be across from each other. I attached a photo showing where they might go. One will be lined up with the loveseat and the other would be 4' in front of listing. Is that the better place or would mounting them at 11' and having the sound behind us more important for good sound? I couldn't put an S over the right arched double french door cause it's blocked by a wall.I have another dbl door with glass above on the right and left of the fireplace.Only one shows in the photo.

jakelm

Top of the door and another across from it. Mount speakers to speaker mounts (like the ones you can buy at RadioShack) and tilt the speakers in a downward angle towards the listening position.

Better than stands (which will just get in the way) and better than having surrounds in different positions, not aligned or same level.

jakelm

Here....

McLoki

jakelm wrote: »

Vintage Polk Monitor 7a's or 7b's or vintage Polk Monitor 5's. Serve as excellent HT and Music speakers. They sit perfectly on a standard shelf. The can be found here and Ebay for less than $100 a pair.

Might have a hard time finding a new pair though.....

Looking at the picture of your room - RTi6's sound like they may work best for you. As already stated - anytime you combine room uses (family room / home theater / 2 channel (or stereo) listening) you are going to have some give and take. Floorstanders will give you the sound you want, but it will be hard (in my opinon) to fit them into your room and make them look like they belong there.

The CSi5 is the center you want to get.

For a sub, I would highly recommend SVS or HSU. You will not be disapointed in the sound you end up with.

As far as the order of the upgrade I am of a different opinon than most apparently...

Center first (get the front stage to match.)

Subwoofer - the cornerstone of a home theater. This will be the biggest "oh wow" upgrade that you do

Fronts - I would recommend RTi6's for your fronts and move the 4's to the rear, but towers would work well too. (do you want it more home theater or family room??)

I have upgraded everything I mentioned in my system before and my wife thought there was a big difference in both the center and sub upgrade. She did shake her head when I went from bookshelves to towers. I noticed the difference, but it was not enough for her to consider it worth it. (the towers stayed anyway - its MY hobby afterall.... )

The meter they were talking about is an SPL meter from radio shack. It will allow you to manually check and make sure that all your speakers are adjusted to the same volume.

Best of luck and let us know how it turns out....

Michael

reeltrouble1

well, you can get a lot of opinion which are a dime a dozen, of course you did ask for opinion's, as to what exact speaker you should use, the vintage Polk 7's need 3 degree's of tilt to sound their best, so keep that in mind. Polk made stands for them with the tilt back in the day. Sometimes you just have to try things to see what sounds best as far as placement, nothing like empirical data to base your decisions on.

I would go for RTi speaker line, they are already voice matched to your other Polk Speakers, you might give Polk CS a call and expain your situation, they are afterall the speaker specialists.

the meter I spoke of is a Speaker Pressure Level meter, you can get it at Radio Shack around 35 dollars, you set your onk to 0 on the relative scale, then use the individual speaker trim positions to balance your internal test tone to 75 db for each speaker the sub you need to set higher but i do not know if yours can handle that, go at least 81 db on the sub, you may have to fiddle with the subs volume control but if you hear bad noises turn it down immediately.

Some of us have HT set up discs which you pay more money for to help you set up your system.

You are on the right track at least you are thinking about what you are lacking and what you can do, in the end its your HT and your ears, trust them.

RT1

jakelm

Thats excatly what is needed here, RT. Avia or Video Essentials disk.

I learned alot from those disk. And it helps with minor callibration for display also.

McLoki

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

Some of us have HT set up discs which you pay more money for to help you set up your system.

They are called Avia or Digital Video Essentials. They both perform a similar function.

It may be worth a call to a local video rental place like blockbuster to see if they have one of them for rent. Will help not only with sound but video calibration as well. It is not something you use all the time though so it would be worth the rental to get it rather than an outright purchase. (if available that way)

Michael

okiebirdnerd

Well, there's lots of info here I need to study but now I'm thinking center & sub for now and new fronts when we are ready to go to 7.1...probably will go with the csi5 and maybe 2 505's...I know I can talk my husband into buying thru Crutchfields so I'm not sure about the company many of you suggested for the subs....I'll see what kind of mood he's in when he gets home before I even bring up the subject...sometimes timing is everything:)
thanks for all your suggestions!!!

Ron Temple

I'm pretty sure this is the sub you want...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768150&page=70

I delivered that beast...weighs 435lbs, but the little guy next to it is one of the SVS subs, though I think you'll need at least the 12" version.

Have fun and I'm sure your hubby will go along with it ;^)

disneyjoe7

okiebirdnerd wrote: »

I'll see what kind of mood he's in when he gets home before I even bring up the subject...sometimes timing is everything:)
thanks for all your suggestions!!!

We Men around here can only wish for a wife such of like you... If my wife bought up this subject I'm not sure where it would end.


But for the other MEN on the board the word is Splash...

okiebirdnerd

OMG my husband would SAGB if I even considered a beast like that...I haven't brought up the speaker subject yet...I'm still working on a great dinner...Mondays are always a bad day at the office...tomorrow might be better....we'll see how dinner goes:)

cfrizz

LOL! Good luck Okie!

Ron Temple

Forgiveness is always better than permission...

Shannon W.

Okiebirbnerd,
First off let me say "Welcome to this forum"! Next please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Shannon and I'm truly sorry someone took your hard earned money and then took you for a ride.

Now that we have gotten all of that stuff said lets talk about trying to get your new Home sound system and what its going to take to get it sounding the way you had hoped it would have from the getgo.

Just like every one on the forum has been telling you that those little RTi4's are just not big enough to be ran as your mains. Also like the others on the forum has told you is to use the RTi4's for your rear surround channels. Then use the FXi3 for you side L/R surround and switch them to run as dipole.
Now for your Mains.

I would Highly recommend buying the RTi12's but those are getting harder to find due to the recent sales going on the RTi line of speakers. if you can find the Rti12 I would not run anything less then the RTi10's which www.Onecall.com has them still in stock and still on sale for $599.08 a pair. here is the link to them (http://www.onecall.com/ProductSearch.aspx?N=0&Ntt=RTi10&D=RTi10) and I highly recommend Oncall I have bought several things from them. also I would hurry and get them while supply's last.

Next you will need to timber match the center channel with the rest of you Polk system so with the room as large as it is I wouldn't get anything smaller then the Polk CSi5. Onecall is also running a sale on them and you can get it for $249.97. Here is the link to those also (http://www.onecall.com/ProductSearch.aspx?N=0&Ntt=CSi5&D=CSi5).

Now for the sub I would buy an SvS sub but you need to call and talk to Ron or anyone there. They will help you pick out the sub that would better suit your need. Also they are not one of the Companies that automatically tries and sells you the most expensive sub they have. here is the link to look at there subs (http://www.svsound.com/index.cfm). Call them tomorrow and as them what you need.

If you have any questions please feel free to send me a message and I would be more then happy to help you with anything. good luck!
Shannon

Willow

It's all nice what Shannon was sayiong about the 10 or 12, but what are you going to push them with? a receiver. I think not. I say don't worry about the 12s or even the 10s get the 8s and with the money saved on the difference in price buy a decent 3 ch amp @ at least 150wpc. Oh yeah don't forget your sub.

You will do more damage to 10s or 12s if you are pushing them on a receiver alone, you'll want to turn it up to get more sound from them and you'll end up damaging them.

reeltrouble1

i like your idea okie, its so easy just to run out and buy things, getting two subwoofers may very well be the ticket for you, you can play with placement around your room, having two greatly reduces the chance of standing waves which cancel or cause humps in the bass sounds. In my case stacking them worked but each room is different.

I second the talk of the center, this is a very important speaker in HT, if budget is the consideration then you have to hold off somewhere. So you get to really know your rti4's, kick the tires so to speak. Then when the time is right you can make a move, heck, hang here a bit and you'll see all kind of good deals on speakers as guys upgrade, once you "know" some of us a bit the thought of getting a deal in the FM might be more appealing.

But who knows, maybe hubby will open the wallet and you can go for it all, either way you have a system to enjoy for what it is, don't focus on what it is not too much or you will go crazy in this hobby.

RT1

okiebirdnerd

Wow have I learned a lot. Wished I'd done all this research with the 3500 bucks in my pocket:)
I have studied everyone's suggestions and all seem to agree on the same center. Is there a way to mount it? We already have our TV pushed back 7" so the center can sit below the slide out shelf the TV rests on. The csi5 is 12" deep or something and it will stick out..and there is no way to put it above the TV cause the TV barely fits..unless we sit it on the top of the 8' cabinet which isn't going to happen. Any suggestions?..I guess I could have my cabinet maker take out one of the raised panels on a door below the TV and we could stand it on its side.
Okay I checked out the svs,hsu and elemental design. The elements had the lowest db response, is 550w, and it weighed the most and cost the least at 600$:)
the svs pc25-3plus only weighed 51 lbs is 525w and costs 849. The vtf3ho is 600w,899 w/110 shipping is 93lbs. I know these are just a bunch of numbers here but I'm thinking the one that weighs almost 50 lbs less than the others must be missing something...especially at the 849. price:)
Dose anyone here own a 600. sub from e-design?
Also I have a question about our receiver. When setting up the speakers in the menu it asks if the speakers are THX certified. How would saying yes change the speaker sound?

I almost forgot- if I went with any of the above could I get by with one sub? I was originally thinking of 2 polk 505's which are 300w and I forgot what the dB is on them. Would 2-300w be better than 1-600w?

okiebirdnerd

I envy y'all with all your great sound systems. I have to be realistic since I have so many grandkids..I don't want my 10 grandkids remembering me always saying no, don't touch:) If I had the setup y'all have I couldn't leave them in the room watching a movie by themselves for 5 min..Right now they enjoy coming to see all the wildlife I feed. I have a wildlife webcam that runs 7/24. Nature is my passion like sound is y'alls passion:)

Shannon W.

If you can't fit the CSi in your built in. Here is a minor alternative from Sanus (http://www.sanus.com/us/en/products/ProductDetails/line/speakerFoundations/pcat/natural/modelCode/NFC18/layout/layout/) This wouldn't be bad. I don't think your grandkids could do any harm to that center channel on a stand.
Shannon

Ron Temple

okiebirdnerd wrote: »

Okay I checked out the svs,hsu and elemental design. The elements had the lowest db response, is 550w, and it weighed the most and cost the least at 600$:)
the svs pc25-3plus only weighed 51 lbs is 525w and costs 849. The vtf3ho is 600w,899 w/110 shipping is 93lbs. I know these are just a bunch of numbers here but I'm thinking the one that weighs almost 50 lbs less than the others must be missing something...especially at the 849. price:)
Dose anyone here own a 600. sub from e-design?

Okie, the eD sub is a 15" driver with a powerful amp. It won't be quite as refined as the SVS or Hsu subs, but very powerful. I speak to them often and they are getting good reviews from their adoptors. For a large room that needs SPL you probably can't do better for the price. Coming from your Yamaha sub, it will be a world of difference.

The cylinder design from SVS is light weight, but equals or exceeds the box subs in it's class. I own a slightly larger cylinder, the benefit is the weight and footprint (16"). The same sub in the box version is 140lbs. You get equal output and sound quality and can put it anywhere. It does look a bit unusual, black water heater, 55gal drum, etc. But the cats stay away and folks generally look astonished after you demo them.

BTW, I wouldn't recommend a sub that won't sound better than anything you could buy retail for less than $1000. In your room make that 2 grand. SVS and Hsu are exceptional. eD is getting there and quite a bargain.

eD is still in the early stages of HT audio. They started in car subs, but are making some noise in the entry level and mid-fi HT audio market. Their product offers exceptional value at it's price point...well made and braced...extremely good frequency response for the price...very industrial looking, large and heavy. The picture I linked was their uber sub, sent to a guy that reviews subs for fun. It's dual 18" woofers with a 1300w amp, that can create deafening SPLs. It's a statment piece. Funny thing is, he tells me it sounds phenomenal and is going to review it vs. some very expensive boutique subs. It might not win the SQ award, but it's no slouch, as are the consumer models.

Sherardp

Rti8s, Csi5, and SVS sub get my vote, unless you decide on the Rti10s. Nice room you have okie, and welcome to the club. Awesome that youre into the HT hobby. You have some nice equiment also and are off to a great start. Stick around.

jakelm

Its my opinion, and I will state it again.

Do not go with floorstanding speakers in that room. Your entertainment center is too nice to have speakers standing in front of it. It will look terrible and you would have to worry about the kids. RTi6 will do you just fine on your shelves.

Knockout the center vertical wall on the top of the tv and place a CSi5 there, tilted towards the listener.

That would be (IMO) the best way to spend your $1000 budget.

Sub can come at a later time.

okiebirdnerd

Well there is no way to change my cabinet to fit the center above the TV. It would destroy the crown molding across the top. I was hoping someone might suggest a bracket of some kind...does the csi5 have a mounting screw on back? I think I'd rather have it sticking out than blocking the lower cabinet doors.
I agree that floor speakers would look out of place. The spot where the sub (s) will sit are the same place floor speakers would sit. I like the idea of the cylinder one..at the 849 price I'd only get one...and I think it might blend better with the surroundings....If I don't hurry up and make up my mind here, my husband might want to call this an early birthday present with my b-day coming the end of next month...and I'm itching for a new camera:)

okiebirdnerd

I was looking at the Polk center speakers...would the rm7302 work? And I guess my center needs to be a Polk even if my subs aren't Polk?

disneyjoe7

Oh I don't know I put my "Girlie side on" for this one. Why not place a nice Center speaker above the built in. Then add some baskets of vined plantings to soften the area where the speaker is. The speaker being high just place something under the back feet to tilt the speaker is more in line of you a little.

Willow

your centre needs to be of thr rti series

disneyjoe7

okiebirdnerd wrote: »

I was looking at the Polk center speakers...would the rm7302 work? And I guess my center needs to be a Polk even if my subs aren't Polk?

It's best to try and get the front 3 Left / Right and Center the same maker and tweeter, for a seem less front stage.

AndyGwis

Its my opinion, and I will state it again.

Do not go with floorstanding speakers in that room. Your entertainment center is too nice to have speakers standing in front of it. It will look terrible and you would have to worry about the kids. RTi6 will do you just fine on your shelves.

Knockout the center vertical wall on the top of the tv and place a CSi5 there, tilted towards the listener.

If you are looking for the best looks, sound performance, and value, I would go with Jake's suggestion. Talk to a cabinet maker and have him/her find a way to put the CSi5 above the TV. I'm sure it can be done, even if some creativity needs to be used.

Stick with bookshelf speakers. Get the RTi6's if you want a slightly "bigger sound" and move them a bit closer to the TV. Just make sure they are wider than your typical seating / sweet spot. Usually, 6 to 7 feet way is good enough, maybe 8ft in a room your size.

I would guess an amp and a bigger or second sub would help at some point, but you need to find a better gameplan first, and that should start with the front soundstage. Separate amps and subs can come later once you get the placement of the front soundstage dialed in.

okiebirdnerd

I did have my sub laying on its side on top of the entertainment center for 7 years until we got the Onkyo. I think the csi5 is made to flip top to bottom. Do the rest of y'all think that would work if I put my center speaker above the 8' cabinets? I realize it wouldn't be ideal but I have to work with what is already there....8 years ago when I designed the entertainment center, I never dreamed we'd have a TV so large the center wouldn't sit on top of the TV.I think the cabinet maker suggested the top center brace for strength...guess I should have suggested a large center hole with a small on both sides...hind site is 20/20

AndyGwis

I guess I don't see why a cabinet maker couldn't come up with something that would hold the center speaker AND allow for bracing.

Maybe something as simple as a wood box that would surround the speaker, or a brace on both sides of the center speaker would seem to work.