wanting more powerful sound from new system

okiebirdnerd

Hi,
I've never posted here before and I'm hoping someone can tell us what to add to our sound system for better sound..We recently spent a fortune having a new stereo system put in. The installer added a Onkyo 805 receiver, 2 Polk rti4 front l&r, 2 Polk fxi3 speakers to my original Yamaha set up. I'm not real sure what we need to do to get better sound but I think the FXi 3 and the rti-4 are mismatched for the size of the room. We don't want to call the installer back cause the whole ordeal has been a nightmare since the getgo..we started out giving him a deposit 5-10-07 and after a delay on the receiver, him ordering the wrong back speakers and wrong outdoor speakers.I will have to say he did a nice job setting it all up on a Middle Atlantic rack system..(making it easier for my husband to rewire all his screw ups) he did install/run wire for two Polk ceiling speakers in our bedroom to my old Denon receiver and installed/ wired two Polk speakers outside on a 2nd zone)..anyway 3000+ later I feel we should be blown away by our new system..Please don't tell me how stupid we were for paying him cause I was glad to be rid of him after he drilled into the electrical wires in our wall. I could go on and on...
Even after hours of reworking what we paid him to do we are still disappointed in the sound. My husband did figure out he had one speaker set to bipole and other to dipole.(We never saw an arrow showing a right or left on the fxi3) I do have great base from my Yamaha and the fxi3 sounds great when there's background sounds.Maybe my Yamaha center is over powering the rti4's.... I know we have hdmi cable ran to all places needed.
The fxi3's are mounted at 6' high on the back wall and hooked up as surround.
I realize he only has us hooked up as a 5.1 but was hoping maybe the rti4 might be able to be used as back speakers or even in our bedroom if need be. And after reading here at this forum I guess we are wasting out time with 7.1 until there's more 7.1 movies available.
Not sure if giving you all our equipment info will help or not but here it is. Thanks in advance.
Any suggestions would be grateful.
many thanks from Oklahoma.

My great room is 18x25
12' ceilings
Our listening distance is 14'
Onkyo 805 receiver ran Audyssey sound test 8 times
Samsung hl-r5678w HD DLP tv
Toshiba hd-a20ku hd dvd player
Cox Cable Scientific Atlanta explorer 8300 HD dvr
Denon DCM-340 CD player
Monster home theatre power center HTS 3600MK11
Dokorder 1120 reel to reel
Technics slb303 turntable
Yamaha yst-sw120 sub-woofer
Yamaha ns-ac140 center speaker
Polk rti 4 front L & R
Polk fxi 3- surround

disneyjoe7

Well we do we start....


First to be blown away you'll need larger speakers for a room that large.

Other then that Welcome to Polk Forums.

okiebirdnerd

Thanks for the kind welcome...a suggestion might make me feel more welcome:)
cheers!

disneyjoe7

Well I'm sure something could be done, but we need to know what your budget is.

okiebirdnerd

...it's about 3000 less than I started with:) ...We thought we were getting what was best since we hired someone to come to our home and give us his professional opinion for our room dimensions..At this point I'd kinda like to have the best sound out of what I've purchased thus far. Would 1000.00 do it justice?
Like I told the installer, we only want to do this once...the sooner we get our system sounding like the $$$ we have in it the sooner the pain from the knife the installer stuck in my back will go away.
Surely the most expensive front speakers Polk makes wouldn't match up with what I have now?
We already have regret...you can't hurt me by saying we need all new front speakers or sub...I just want to get over my regret, ya know what I mean? I'm open for any suggestions.
cheers!

disneyjoe7

You're using this system as Home Theater right? If so what is that you feel is missing?

Early B.

okiebirdnerd wrote: »

Would 1000.00 do it justice?
Like I told the installer, we only want to do this once...
cheers!

Ha ha. You're just getting started.

As disneyjoe said, your speakers aren't up to the task for the room size. Start by investing in large floorstanders -- maybe the Rti10's, Rti12's, or an equivalent speaker. They're real cheap right now because new models are being introduced.

And please, switch out the subwoofer ASAP. Look into a Hsu or SVS subwoofer. Buy the biggest one you can't afford.

Once you do these two things, you're well on your way to spending your life's savings on more audio gear.:p

okiebirdnerd

Yes, home system... I don't know, I guess it sounds kinda bright....sounds like you think I should be happy with what I have..guess I'll live with it this way if nobody is going to suggest anything.
thanks for your time.

okiebirdnerd

And please, switch out the subwoofer ASAP. Look into a Hsu or SVS subwoofer. Buy the biggest one you can't afford.

Once you do these two things, you're well on your way to spending your life's savings on more audio gear.

---

What is Hsu or SVS?... I've never felt the base was bad but I guess it could be outdated for the rest of the system.
Can the speakers you are talking about be purchased at Circuit City or Best Buy?
thanks for your time.

reeltrouble1

DJ7 has you started off just fine.

Your room is quite large, now the Rti 4 are award winning speakers but just not up to this task. With the size of your room 7.1 is a very good idea, if possible move the Rti 4 to the back surround and use the fxi 3 as side surround, I agree with getting some floorstander's to match for your fronts along with a polk center. You just need more sound pressure in this big room and I assume it is not sealed and has openings to go to other rooms, all of which lets the sound pressure escape.

Your receiver will matrix tracks for the back surrounds for those movies that do not have their own discreet tracks, besides for those movies that do have a back discreet track you are presently not getting this so you are not getting everything you paid for when you bought the disc.

Change the sub if you want, someday you likely will, but all within time and budget, lastly, well, sooner or later someone is going to tell you to get a seperate amplifier, say 7 channels, high current amplifier, most of us have them and someday you likely will if you stay here.

Good Luck and sorry your experience was not the best with your installer but with some perserverance and of course more money you can get there, personally, I think he cheaped out on your front speaks unless you asked for small speakers.

HSU and SVS are company names they make sub-woofers, they are nice subs but cannot be had at a big box store, me, I like Polk subs, use them and love them but I needed two for my room which is a bit smaller than yours.

Again, welcome to Club Polk.

RT1

disneyjoe7

okiebirdnerd wrote: »

Yes, home system... I don't know, I guess it sounds kinda bright....sounds like you think I should be happy with what I have..guess I'll live with it this way if nobody is going to suggest anything.
thanks for your time.

Sounds kinda bright... That's what I was thinking also it because the Rti4 speakers are too small. The woofer can't pressure the large room so yes I think they would be kinda bright also.

I agree with everyone else here Front speakers, Center speaker, and the Subwoofer.

Willow

There is a pair of rti8 in the FM for 280$ you can't go wrong there. As mentioned all Polks are on sale right now you can get a csi3 for example 150$ in Canada so even cheaper in the US. Buy yourself a decent 2 or 3 ch amp and you'll be laughing.

AndyGwis

I agree. Get some decent matching floorstanders (Rti8's or Rti10's), move the RTi's to surround back, FXi3's to surround sides, and get a decent, warm-sounding 2 or 3 channel amp to help take the strain off your receiver. RTis can be described as "bright sounding" by some, so a good warm sounding receiver (B&K comes to mind) might be what you're lacking.

You can get RTi8's for $250 - $350 in like new condition (I think) and a B&K ST-1430 like I have for $350 - $400, maybe even cheaper. A good 2-channel could be had for $200 - $300.

Good luck! CSi3's can be picked up for real cheap. I sold one a year ago in like new condition for $110 shipped, and probably even cheaper now.

okiebirdnerd

The reason I didn't replace my center speaker to begin with was cause the one he selected had less watts.And the original receiver he chose had been discontinued and when he gave us info on another one I said if we are going that high in price I wanted THX...so we ended up going from a 90w to a 135w receiver...He said you don't have to have big speakers for big sound....anyway, my husband will never agree to buying anything else sight unseen again but I was hoping to listen to the rti10 and the psw505. Hopefully I can find them locally so I can listen to them and at their price they should sound great.I was disappointed neither were at the Circuit City site. Thanks so much for your help..
I was wondering where to look to get the best price on line?

Willow

Don't worry about watts. and don't buy just cause it says THX.

The best place to look for gear is right here on the FM
as mentioned 280$ for rti8s can't go wrong.

reeltrouble1

The Tweeter stores were running close outs on Polk Speakers in some places the stores are called Sound Advice.

As far as on-line, well, the authorized dealers are all about the same as far as price, www.Crutchfield.com has an excellent reputation, they may have a 30 day trial on speakers but I am not sure about that one.

RT1

okiebirdnerd

At this point I don't think I want someone else's hand me downs but after reading late into the night I'd like to hear the rti10 with the psw505...and I did look at Crutchfields with a pair for 699. free shipping. I checked Frys but they were much higher....and since I'm not from around here, I didn't have a clue what FM meant....then I found the flea market on this web site.
I saw this web sites bragging rights page where some of you post your sound systems. Man some of you are freaks about your sound:) I'd be afraid to leave the house without having armed guards at my doors with the what y'all have. I have excellent hearing and I want to keep it that way:)

Ron Temple

To recap

Front soundstage (LCR)
RTi 8s or 10s for fronts
CSi3 or 5 for center

Surrounds
FXi3s

Back Surrounds
RTi4s

Sub: While the 505 is a decent sub you really would need 2 of them in that room. The SVS or Hsu subs that would be recommended you can find on their websites

www.svsound.com the PC25-31Plus or PB12NSD/2
www.hsuresearch.com the VTF3.3 or VTF 3HO

For less money, but high output, there's a new player that's offering another big sub for quite a bit less...Elemental Designs...the A5-350 is $600 shipped, industrial looking, but with the lights out, it will provide plenty of deep output.

www.edesignaudio.com

I don't think you got screwed, you purchased about $1500 of equipment with the receiver and speakers. The instaltion price of $1500 is pretty typical though a bit much for what it sounds like he did, but not outlandish. To get your HT to sound right you've gotten some good advice, but it will cost you another $1500 to do you justice. If you don't have the budget, start with the floorstanders, then the center, then the sub...over time. For HT the sub will make the biggest impact. For music, the fronts...for dialog, the center.

Once you're done, it will be awesome.

okiebirdnerd

Okay I have a stupid question? What is the difference between the monitor series (70) and the rti (10) series? For some reason I thought I read that THX receivers needed a specific type.

reeltrouble1

Monitor is Polk's entry lineup, they are good, but entry, you could use them but they are not voiced matched to your present Rti speakers.

RTi means Reference Theater--speakers designed with HT in mind that can also do music although this is not there primary intention.

Lsi is Polks highest line you do not need to go there with the gear you have.

THX means a product has reached a standard set by Lucas Labs that the product will perform at a given level within a certain defined space. Given your large space you would likely need THX Ultra 2 cert. on all your gear to meet the standard, I would not worry to much about it. Any 6-8 ohm speaker will play with your Onkyo.

RT1--owner of many hand me downs......

cfrizz

Great recap Ron. And nice break down Ted!

ohskigod

Ron Temple wrote: »

To recap

Front soundstage (LCR)
RTi 8s or 10s for fronts
CSi3 or 5 for center

Surrounds
FXi3s

Back Surrounds
RTi4s

Sub: While the 505 is a decent sub you really would need 2 of them in that room. The SVS or Hsu subs that would be recommended you can find on their websites

www.svsound.com the PC25-31Plus or PB12NSD/2
www.hsuresearch.com the VTF3.3 or VTF 3HO

For less money, but high output, there's a new player that's offering another big sub for quite a bit less...Elemental Designs...the A5-350 is $600 shipped, industrial looking, but with the lights out, it will provide plenty of deep output.

www.edesignaudio.com

I don't think you got screwed, you purchased about $1500 of equipment with the receiver and speakers. The instaltion price of $1500 is pretty typical though a bit much for what it sounds like he did, but not outlandish. To get your HT to sound right you've gotten some good advice, but it will cost you another $1500 to do you justice. If you don't have the budget, start with the floorstanders, then the center, then the sub...over time. For HT the sub will make the biggest impact. For music, the fronts...for dialog, the center.

Once you're done, it will be awesome.

good recap. I'll just add that with a room that size, with the high cielings, I wouldnt even consider the smaller CSi3, just get the 5. you need a big center in the big room. If you have to get the RTi8's instead of the 10's to ensure room in the budget, then do it. if your doing multi chanel, and more movies than music, then do NOT skinp on the center.

hell, if not for the center your using now, the set up might not sound as bad as you describe it does now. you spent quite a bit of change so far, yo owe it to yourself to go the extra mile and get it right.

also, the guys aint kidding on the sub issue, you gotta go big on the sub. as already said, Hsu and SVS (not too small), or, if budget is strecthed and your handy with wood and wires, go the DIY route.

okiebirdnerd

Okay so let me get this straight. I think I will buy new front speakers for the time being..(I'm considering the rti10 and I like the monitor 70's) ..are you saying for me to put the fxi3's on my side walls and my rti4's on my back wall? Please be patient with me, I want to make sure I understand this before I give the info to my husband.Also if the fxi3 go on the side walls, how important is it that they are directly across from each other? I have a fireplace on one side wall and a 9' opening on the other side wall. The speaker on the fireplace wall would line up with my seating area (if placed 6' from ground) but the wall with the large opening would have the speaker 4' in front of our seating area...now if I have them at 11' from the ground, I can put them anywhere. My ceilings are 12'. What do you suggest? I think I attached a pic of my livingroom but I'm not sure:)

ohskigod

I would try like hell to keep the side surrounds as close to across from eachother as possible, if you gotta mount them 11 ft up, then so be it (but get a mount that will allow you to fire them down a little bit.

jakelm

Ummmm...Are there speakers in the room right now?

...I think I see a center channel or a shadow of one...

I hardly ever say "bigger is better", but In your case, you deffinatly need to get bigger line of speakers.

In your setup, I would try to stick with bookshef speakers (for looks manely).

You have a beautiful room, big floorstanders in front of that beautiful entertainment center would just look ugly.

Keep the Onkyo, great reciever with plenty of power.

You really need the LSi bookshelf line, but with your budget,,

RTi6, should do just fine. no smaller.

CSi5, should do just fine. no smaller.

Just my opinion.

okiebirdnerd

Yes the rti4's are on the second shelf from the bottom. My sub is in the far right corner and stands 2' tall, the recliner is hiding it..You guys are much more savvy on all this than I will ever be and with that being said I don't know enough about these things to purchase speakers without a warranty.Plus my husband would never agree..I'm sure it's our loss but someone will snatch them up if it's a good price..
Thanks for the advice/info on the monitor speakers. I looked for info and couldn't find anything..
I do have a Bose vcs10 center speaker we stuck in our bedroom if it might sound better for the time being than the Yamaha. It's not as old as the Yamaha...but my husband said the Yamaha had more watts than the Bose:)
I am wanting to put some of our favorite old music on my 10" reel Dokorder ..I just can't part with that ole thing....you guys probably don't hang onto stuff long enough to gather dust but I tend to get attached when I've had stuff that has good memories behind it:) I probably should ditch all my old albums and turn table too:) I didn't bat an eye when I ditched the old 8 track and cassettes. Not sure why I've held onto my albums and turntable all these years:)
Thanks for all the help guys, this is great:)

reeltrouble1

SURE, send all that old TT stuff to me.........waaaaaaaaaaaaa.........we hord more stuff than packrats, do not let us fool you. You keep your records and your R2R, after some time with HT it is quite normal for folks to start looking for better sound with the music and unless I am missing something you are a perfect candidate. Go peruse the 2-channel section of the board when you want some light reading.

I can tell you are hell bent on new speakers instead of used, so be it, I see where the bookshelf idea came from with your nice cabinets, the rti6 might work, you see, whenever you are combining room functions there are compromises, it would be best if you could keep your surrounds around 6 feet from the floor, but if not possible as Lou suggested you get some mounts you can aim downard, look at doroski's HT in the showcase, he has some. Those big floorstanders are going to give the sound but are going to take some floorspace.

Please, leave the Yammie center in the rig if you are not going to replace it, my advice is to drop kick the Bose to the next county, not my kind of speaker company to say the least.

I know you said you ran the auto EQ--do you have any kind of meter to see if the speakers are actually balanced????

RT1

okiebirdnerd

Well considering I have 10 grandkids under the age of 11, bookshelf would be more practical for sure:) I'll have to read up on bookshelf speakers again.. but I'm sure I'd have to have two subs to go with them too:) I think I could convince my husband we need new fronts pretty easy but to say we need two subs "now" might take more convincing than I'm able to do:)
Oh and thanks for the compliment on my livingroom. We had to have the whole wall rebuilt for a large TV cause the people that built the house didn't believe in having a TV in the family room...they designed it so their family could visit:) Now isn't that old fashioned:)They didn't have cable or a phone line ran to that room which seems kinda odd since they had 10 cable lines and 10 phone lines ran to other parts of the house.

jakelm

Clear out a shelf and put a pair of vintage 5's or 7's in the mix as main left and right.

That would be the best money you will ever spend.:D

okiebirdnerd

I'm not sure what meter you are talking about ...and unless it's info I can get from my Onkyo menu I'm clueless.
And do you mean to put a 5 & 7 on the right shelf and a 5 & 7 on the left shelf?

jakelm

okiebirdnerd wrote: »

I'm not sure what meter you are talking about ...and unless it's info I can get from my Onkyo menu I'm clueless.
And do you mean to put a 5 & 7 on the right shelf and a 5 & 7 on the left shelf?

Vintage Polk Monitor 7a's or 7b's or vintage Polk Monitor 5's. Serve as excellent HT and Music speakers. They sit perfectly on a standard shelf. The can be found here and Ebay for less than $100 a pair.

Then we can walk you through a crossover upgrade...:eek: :eek:

They are alittle bigger speakers so, soundstage will be 100 times better.

But all serious, they match excellent with current Polk center line up, and sound quality cannot be matched for the price you pay. They also match well with the RTi line. So the Rti4's will do well as surrounds, with them.