Times have really changed

PhantomOG

Yummm... that gravy is good, huh guys?

PhantomOG

I can see how your view of society is *slightly* skewed when your basis is founded from "reality" programming.

Well, you guys can run off and hide in your houses and watch the news and reality tv. I'll be out living in the big bad scary world and doing just fine.

steveinaz

No, actually it's from real life experience---do you have any by the way? Do you have children? What are their ages?

shack

All but one of the groups examined here increased their rate of postsecondary participation from 1974 to 2003. The one exception was young Hispanic males, whose participation rate declined while the rates of others increased.

Just how do you think those numbers would stack up when compared to the growth of resources allocated to pre, secondary and postsecondary education? Not very favorably. You should also look at the mix of the allocation of resources. The majority has gone to bring up the "sub" classifications to "acceptable" levels. In other words, we allocate huge amounts of resources to get everyone to "average" and very little in promoting the best and brightest. There is also a lot of grade inflation and academic advancement due to social reasons.

When you remove foreign students from the numbers the college graduation rates are not significantly higher. College attendance has increased due to lottery scholarship programs in many states, but it hasn't necessarily resulted in higher graduation numbers. We have made it much easier to get to college by "dumbing down" the educational system rather than better preparing the students to continue their education.

Somehow it has become "wrong" to give special attention or promote the truly gifted or those with great intellect. I have seen first hand where school systems will spend millions to mainstream students, and to make sure everyone gets an "equal" education but students categorized as gifted have no financial or educational support to help them get the most out of their talents. Good or exceptional students are often bored because the system is geared to the teaching the lowest possible denominator. Some may consider this to be a "fair" thing....but I consider it a poor investment in our future.

exalted512

PolkWannabie wrote:

What does school drop out rates have to do with average SAT scores the lowering of which over the years is a fact ...

want to know another fact? Our math teacher was able to get a copy of an SAT from the late 70s. With todays scoring, i wouldve made a 1490 on it. I made a 1200 on the one I took to get into college.

Maybe, just maybe, the test that was the SAT from the 70s is not the same one as today.

Fact:
Its much harder to get into college now than it was 20 years ago.

Do you think EAS might have made the test a little harder to weed out more people? Now I dont know what has caused a change in the testing, but I do know is the test that they had in the 70s IS NOT the test they have today
-Cody

PhantomOG

Hey man, you started this old man pity party, don't try and rain on their parade now.

PolkWannabie

exalted512 wrote:

Fact:
Its much harder to get into college now than it was 20 years ago.

Really ? ... Then how do you explain the apparently necessary remedial programs for some percentage of entering freshman at many schools to get them to be able comprehend what they're reading and perform basic math skills ...

Colleges these days seem to be very willing to take on students and keep them there whether they are capable or not as long as someone is prepared to pay for them to do it ...

shack

PhantomOG wrote:

Hey man, you started this old man pity party, don't try and rain on their parade now.

At least I won't have to learn to speak Chinese or Hindi in order to call the corporate headquarters as they become the next economic superpowers.

PhantomOG

Yep. I just checked. EVERY single college freshman last year was enrolled in at least one remedial class. Amazing. The sky is falling!!! The sky is falling!!!!

PhantomOG

shack wrote:

At least I won't have to learn to speak Chinese or Hindi in order to call the corporate headquarters as they become the next economic superpowers.

And do you know why? Because people in those countries work hard to better themselves for a better tomorrow, while people here are lazy and whine about a better yesterday.

PolkWannabie

No one here is whining about a better yesterday ... That accomplishes nothing ... If it's broken isn't the solution to fix it ? ... or ... In your opinion is it not broken ?

PhantomOG

Broken? No. Imperfect? Absolutely, but no moreso than it was 30 years ago. Any inconveniences of today are vastly outweighted by the much greater opportunity available to everyone.

Who knows, in 30 years when my memory is going out, I'll probably be sitting around waxing lyrical about how *perfect* the 80's were and how none of the then current world problems even existed back then.

zombie boy 2000

PolkWannabie wrote:

Colleges these days seem to be very willing to take on students and keep them there whether they are capable or not as long as someone is prepared to pay for them to do it ...

This would certainly be the case with the college from which I graduated. For years, numerous alumni boards set a cap at a student population of 1000.
30% acceptance rate was the norm.

I turned on the TV the other day and actually saw a commerical for the college. An effin' commercial?!? I also came to find out that the "1000 student limit" had been lifted -- albeit admist a flurry of protests from sources to numerous to mention.

"Come one, come all", I suppose.

shack

PhantomOG wrote:

Broken? No. Imperfect? Absolutely, but no moreso than it was 30 years ago. Any inconveniences of today are vastly outweighted by the much greater opportunity available to everyone.

And that "greater opportunity" doesn't mean a whole lot it appears....

BOSTON, Massachusetts (Reuters) -- Less than 50 percent of U.S. college students entering four-year colleges or universities actually graduate, researchers at Council for Aid to Education (CAE) said in a report.

"And that's a conservative estimate," said Richard Hersh who coauthored the report on the quality of higher education for the National Governors Association.

Backing up the CAE report, figures from ACT, formerly the American College Testing Service, show the graduation rate at four-year public institutions fell to 41.9 percent in 2000, while the rate at private schools was 55.1 percent.

In 1983, those figures were 52.2 percent and 59.5 percent, respectively, according to ACT, which conducts college placement tests and offers education and career planning services.

"It's the lowest it's been and it's been going down by increments," said Wes Habley, director of ACT's office of educational practices. "That's somewhat staggering when you think about the amount of money invested in people who don't finish."

Access is part of the answer," Habley said. "There is a notion of entitlement for the U.S. population" that everyone should have access to a college education "and some lack the requisite skills to succeed."

CAE's Hersh agreed that "we have increased access to college, but we haven't done very much about the quality." Instead of cutting back on access, he suggested "that we change the system such that we get people better prepared for college and do a better job once they get to college."

PolkWannabie

shack wrote:

CAE's Hersh agreed that "we have increased access to college, but we haven't done very much about the quality." Instead of cutting back on access, he suggested "that we change the system such that we get people better prepared for college and do a better job once they get to college."

Ya think ...

MSALLA

To anyone who thinks the world is a better place today, I ask you this. Do you feel safe giving your kids the same freedom you had as a kid? I'll not sit here and say that everything in the past was better, but you didn't get the school shootings that you get now. Drugs, you know why drug arrests are up. Because drugs are everywhere. I drive to the parts of the city I use to go and visit family at and the areas are now war zones. So unless you live in the sticks, I can't see how you can call this a safer world.
I still live life and don't want to raise my kids to be scared of the world but you have to be more street smart as a kid today to get by in life.

bobman1235

MSALLA wrote:

To anyone who thinks the world is a better place today, I ask you this. Do you feel safe giving your kids the same freedom you had as a kid?

I gave up on this thread, but I'll repeat myself for the 16th time so everyone can tell me I'm wrong. If the crime rate is DOWN, which it demonstrably is in every single study you will find that is not pure opinion, then there is NO reason to not feel as safe with your kids out there. The difference is ALL in your head, and that difference is all about how the world is PORTRAYED to you, not the way it actually is. Information is more readily available, AND the news is just an entertainment program that uses FEAR to get you to tune in. People have brought up a million OTHER problems in this thread, many of which are VERY true, but as far as SAFETY on the streets, except for in a few isolated areas, on the whole it is much safer out there, but everyone feels less safe. You can argue about the world being a better or worse place, but as far as domestic street crime, it's a safer place, and every single statistic you can find will back that up.

You were allowed out riding your bike by yoruself when you were a kid because your parents weren't scared by the news. The news was shown on the major networks, and focused on world affairs and important things. Now there's six news shows a day on the networks, PLUS cable networks dedicated SOLELY to news, so they ahve to fill their time with every single incident accross the country that will get people to tune in, and in the meantime they've created a cowering bunch of pansies who shelter their kids from this perceived monstrous world. You're all criticizing the pansy kids that are being raised - well you're raising them by being afraid and sheltering them against a monster that is no bigger now than it ever was.

PolkWannabie

MSALLA wrote:

... I ask you this. Do you feel safe giving your kids the same freedom you had as a kid?

Yep ...

Polkersince85

Test scores and college entrance has probably changed since the late 60-early 70 era. I challenge any of the entering freshmen today to take the SAT without a calculator or without downloading their assignments off the internet. Try 4 years of college with a pencil and scratch paper for math tests, a manual typewriter, classwork written in ink pen. If you wanted to look something up, the card file is the cabinet in the corner, have at it. I guess a lot of things have changed.

ben62670

Don't believe the BS the government posts to make themselves look better! Our government definitely lies to us. If you believe the death tolls in recent wars, terrorist attacks, and even natural disasters, then you are living in some sort of fantasy land. I know people who have had to remove bodies from such events, who have seen it with their own eyes! I live in south Florida, and FL makes more money off of locking up people than any other source of income including tourism. How would you like to buy stock in The FL Department of Correction? Look at the stock market its there. Sad very sad. Why does America have more people in jail per capita than nearly every single country in the world? I spent 7 months in jail because I tape recorded my babysitter. She hit me and I spent 7 months in jail. She wasn't even arrested. Land of the free? I lost my house my business, missed my daughter being born, and accumulated lots and lots of debt. While in jail being transported from one jail to another the totally reckless diputy got us in an accident. I herniated 5 disc's in my back and never got treatment. So I have been out a while, of course suing them for medical. I have to basically get permission from Broward County to sue Broward County. The limit is $100,000 pay the lawyer, and medical bills have nothing. So if you think its better now than in 1970? I won't even comment on that, pisses me of too much that people can be that naive. You can look at all the statistics you want, show me any graph you want. Take yourself through these nasty drug infested cities we have all over the country, and tell me what you see. Yes TV does sensationalize drugs, sex, and violence. Keep supporting the crap. I will not listen to or watch most of the news that you hear today. Look at the kids that are being raised. Thats a good indication of whats going on. READ a couple of times, and ask yourselves these questions.DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT WOULD ADMIT THEY ARE DOING A SHI! A$$ JOB?

MSALLA

I disagree. The news may trap their vewiers by using scare tacticts but they are not making up stories. All those reports are real. I don't raise my kids to be shelterd, but they do have to be smarter then we use to. Drug use is not only up but the choices of drugs are like nothing our generation had to deal with. I will agree that people are more aware of things today. Computers have made it easy to keep records of crimes over the last 20 years so we actually know how often rapes or child abductions are happening,but I still think the world holds more dangers for kids today. If you don't agree, well it really makes no difference either way.

exalted512

PolkWannabie wrote:

Really ? ... Then how do you explain the apparently necessary remedial programs for some percentage of entering freshman at many schools to get them to be able comprehend what they're reading and perform basic math skills ...

Colleges these days seem to be very willing to take on students and keep them there whether they are capable or not as long as someone is prepared to pay for them to do it ...

Well you can tell that to all my friend with 3.0 GPAs that still can't get into A&M University.

Polkersince85 wrote:

Test scores and college entrance has probably changed since the late 60-early 70 era. I challenge any of the entering freshmen today to take the SAT without a calculator or without downloading their assignments off the internet. Try 4 years of college with a pencil and scratch paper for math tests, a manual typewriter, classwork written in ink pen. If you wanted to look something up, the card file is the cabinet in the corner, have at it. I guess a lot of things have changed.

I challenge you to take the SAT without a calculator. The SAT's math section is DESIGNED to have a calculator. And if you think having a calculator means you can do every problem right, you are very, very ignorant. If you think youre doing the same problems I'm doing in the same class, 30 years later, youre dead wrong. You want to know how I know? Because my teacher was there...and he told us the differences between the tests. Know what else? He said it was easier back then than it is now. Hmmm.

Classwork written in pen??? Oh no, I'd hate that...especially since most people can write faster than they can type. I can type faster than I can write, but I am in the minority.
-Cody

Polkersince85

Some of these comments remind me of myself when I was young and stupid.

PolkWannabie

exalted512 wrote:

Well you can tell that to all my friend with 3.0 GPAs that still can't get into A&M University.-Cody

I did say MANY ... Not ALL ... It's good to know there are still some left with standards ... I couldn't get in 2 out of my top 3 choices with 1500+ SAT's and a 3.8+ GPA from what was at the the time rated the 3rd best high school in the country.

ben62670

Hey Bob I wouldn't let my kids out like i used to go out. Fact is fact kids disappear allot more than they used to, and are involved, or victims of more serious crimes than they used to be. Lots of crime isn't reported where I live in Ft Lauderdale, because they just don't have the time to air everrything. I have seen stuff that should have made the news and didn't. Spend a week or two in court in any large city and see how it really is. If a kid breaks into a home, and someone is there they don't run away anymore they beat the shi! out of them! So keep on believing those false government reports if it makes you feel better.

PhantomOG

so now we're onto black helicopters and such? too funny...

PhantomOG

Just remember, crime statistics are fabricated by the big bad government, the news under reports all the bad stuff, and if you see something bad somewhere its definitely happening on a grand scale everywhere and worse than you really think. Please stay safe, in your homes, and don't forget to put your tin foil hats on.

Have fun ya'll.

hearingimpared

PolkThug wrote:

good stuff:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16159302/

ROTFLMFAO!!!

How much more ridiculous can this crap get???

I'll tell you. . . in a school system in Mass. today, they stopped posting the Honor Roll in the newspapers because it put too much stress on the students.:rolleyes:

Let's see which ones, the ones who make the honor roll or the ones who don't????

F1nut

I spent 7 months in jail because I tape recorded my babysitter. She hit me and I spent 7 months in jail. She wasn't even arrested. Land of the free? I lost my house my business, missed my daughter being born, and accumulated lots and lots of debt.

Perfect example of what the original intent of this thread is about. I mean how effed up is that!?!

hearingimpared

PhantomOG wrote:

All this anecdotal BS doesn't prove squat.

Naa it doesn't prove squat but it is fun to needle people with it!!!:D