Evolution

Demiurge

brettw22 wrote:

Demi, there's a HUGE difference between sociatal crimes and religious moral based. Don't go so far outside the lines to justify a point........

Law stems from moral principles, all of which are religious based. Society decides to what extent the envelope is pushed or rescinded. The way you're talking all people are born either good or bad, but how can you define the terms without a frame of reference?

Demiurge

aaharvel wrote:

I disagree with the first sentence. Last time I checked I'm not African American, ****, or a woman. Neither were millions of Americans who clamored for civil rights, equal rights for homosexuals based on the argument that the Constitution says "All men are created equal." Not "all straight white men are created equal." And let's not forget the big one: slavery. I remember a very tall white guy by the name of Abe Lincoln not only took a country to war with itself, but gave the ultimate sacrifice, his life to make sure that something as grotesque as slavery would never happen again in a country that calls itself a democracy.

I obviously can't respond to this without opening a whole other door in this discussion, so kudos to you.

The point still stands, and to go towards the angle I was running with, look at private property rights. We've suddenly decided that since we like to go out and gorge ourselves on food at restaurants that we now have the right to do so in someones private establishment without having to smell a cigarette. That's a right that doesn't exist anywhere, and it's taking the rights away from someone else. That's the point I was making.

Airplay355

That right of someone else is hazardous to other peoples health. You don't have a right to hurt other people. If you choose to smoke in your house or outside where it's less harmful to others then that's fine.

Those people may be complete fat asses, going there for 2 bacon double cheeseburgers which is incredibly unhealthy anyway, but it was their unhealthy decision. Someone next to them eating a bacon double cheeseburger didn't make them fat, they made themselves fat.

Hi-jack....mcdonalds sucks! haahaa

Demi I'm confused, I didn't get what you were saying when you responded to what I said.

brettw22

I don't understand your point Demi.......people are making arguements for/against religious based impact to society and you're making a point that you say has nothing to do with religion........clarify? Also, when you're making your points, I think it's weak at best to try and pull kiddie **** into these discussions. It's disgusting to me that in these discussions someone ALWAYS brings up kiddie **** to justify an arguement in here......hopefully that can end here and now.

I think anyone with a brain is able to determine that sex with a child is wrong. I don't need a bible, preacher, or book to tell me this. I don't depend on those 3 items to help me determine what is or is not right, and if people need those to differentiate what's right or wrong, then use your crutch all you'd like. Just don't mandate I use YOUR crutch. Child crimes are wrong because it is excplicitly clear that someone is being victimized.......period. Movin on......

This arguement about people feeling 'infringed upon' is something you revert to a lot.....the probelm with that IMO is the 'rights' people are seeking (i'll use the **** thing as a specific) aren't "special" or "better" rights than you or anyone else DO have. We're arguing that if YOU are eligible for said rights/benefits as an American, WE should also be entitled to those as well, and not for YOUR religious based opinion on right/wrong to bias against us.

heiney9

brettw22 wrote:

I think anyone with a brain is able to determine that sex with a child is wrong. I don't need a bible, preacher, or book to tell me this. I don't depend on those 3 items to help me determine what is or is not right, and if people need those to differentiate what's right or wrong, then use your crutch all you'd like. Just don't mandate I use YOUR crutch. Child crimes are wrong because it is excplicitly clear that someone is being victimized.......period. Movin on......

Not to furthur expound on this issue as it's very disgusting, but it seems many of what would be considered religious extremists have used whole families including kids to control their behaviors and it most certainly always includes sexual deviant behavior as a way of control. David Koresh had several young bed mates. Not commenting one way or another on Demi's example just pointing out how it could relate to this discussion...........now back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

H9

heiney9

Whoa.....where'd everybody go.........was it something I said?

audiobliss

heiney9 wrote:

...was it something I said?

Yes!

unc2701

Nah, this place is always dead on Fridays.

BIZILL

whoops. too late to have stumbled upon this gem of a thread........

(bizill silently proceeds to walk away....)

PolkThug

Back to evolution.

A new shark species was recently found. It 'walks' along the ocean floor with its front fins, there's even a video of it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14834763/

zombie boy 2000

PolkThug wrote:

Back to evolution.

A new shark species was recently found. It 'walks' along the ocean floor with its front fins, there's even a video of it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14834763/

That is one of the most bizarre things I have ever laid eyes upon.:eek:

aaharvel

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/oldest-skeleton-of-ape-man-child-found/20060920133809990016?ncid=NWS00010000000001

bikezappa

Do all the worlds religions believe in the same laws of physics?

If yes, who created these laws?

If a single God created these laws shouldn't we try to understand them?

jdhdiggs

Zappa: You are following the same logic as the progressive in the religious circles. That scientists are not disproving God, but uncovering the mystery of what God is and if God does exist, science will find and prove that out. The only counter to this (from a Christian perspective) is faith. If you have proof, there is no need for faith and no choice and therefore no religion. Quite a connundrum...

MacLeod

Scientists in general do not have an agenda. Theyre not out to prove or disprove God. All theyre trying to do is explore, learn about and understand this universe as much as possible. We could know every single law of physics and that still woulndt disprove God. SCIENCE IS NOT THE ENEMY OF RELIGION

unc2701

MacLeod wrote:

Scientists in general do not have an agenda.

Where were you on the global warming thread

cmy330go

jdhdiggs wrote:

.....That scientists are not disproving God, but uncovering the mystery of what God is and if God does exist, science will find and prove that out. The only counter to this (from a Christian perspective) is faith. If you have proof, there is no need for faith and no choice and therefore no religion. Quite a connundrum...

What further proof do they need? If they can't look at all the AMAZING things in nature and see that it was obviously designed by an intelligent being, then they are never going to get it.

This might rub some the wrong way, but...IMHO Evolution and the Big Bang theory are only for those who: 1) Are too arrogant to admit that there is someone in the universe far more intelligent than themselves, and/or 2) Don't like the idea of someday being held accountable for their actions.

aaharvel

doesn't rub me the wrong way at all. Everybody has the right to their opinion. I'm not a firm believer in religion or in evolution. I don't think I, as an individual have the power to know for sure which is true and which is false- although admittedly I would take the side of evolution over religion if forced to. To me, it's just one of those things that will always remain one of those unsolved mysteries. That's where faith comes in. I don't know, but I guess that's my point.

bikezappa

My main point is that the laws of physics are very mysterious. Look at the double split experiment in the site above. The fact that if you look at something, an electron for example, you chnage it's properties, speed and direction, is fasinating.

And there are laws of physics that can explain this very observation accurately.

And some thing or some one made these laws.

And no faith is required to believe them, just experiments.

I just don't understand why many people have some much faith in religious documents written by people many years ago.

Were they born with this faith?

And what do you believe when the laws of physics are in conflict with the religious documents?

This topic is very diffecult to have a dialogue with because of the emotional nature of faith, I think.

The worse out come I fear is when politics and science are mixed together.

Politicians are the biggest bunch of liars in the world.

jdhdiggs

People have also been "touched by God" I know I have. It's the best decription of something that happened to me that I can come up with. When you experience it, you will know it as fact. Similar to your experiments. Granted, it could just be a chemical reaction but I'd rather not take that chance

audiobliss

bikezappa wrote:

Politicians are the biggest bunch of liars in the world.

And scientists are the next, imo.

Scientists don't have an egenda? Please! :rolleyes:

Of course, I am making an incredibly HUGE, SWEEPING generalization when I say that. But, so be it.

unc2701

audiobliss wrote:

And scientists are the next, imo.

Scientists don't have an egenda? Please! :rolleyes:

Of course, I am making an incredibly HUGE, SWEEPING generalization when I say that. But, so be it.

Perhap you could tell us about your personal experience with scientists?

Airplay355

Beliving in a God and believing in evolution don't have to conflict. Like someone else said, it's perfectly plausable to think a God built in a system for his creations to change. Maybe so if something bad happens he wouldn't have to start all over again lol.

I live in NY and they teach evolution in schools. My biology teacher told us that it was just part of the course if your beliefs conflict with it then that's fine. She also added that as you learn more and more about science and the way things in the world worked, the easier it was for her to believe that it was just too much and to intricate to have happened by chance.

Again, science isn't religions enemy. It's just understanding what's around you, be it God made or not. What's wrong with that? It's wrong because the Bible says it's not true? How many different versions of the bible are there? Ever play telephone? Things get alittle distorted after a while.

I'm not saying there is or isn't a God, I just think it's arrogant to say people who attempt to explain and understand their world should not be doing so because it detracts from their faith in God.

God certainly didn't create audio equipment, so is it wrong to attempt to understand our world and the way electrons move to create better audio equipment?

If we abandoned science and strictly stuck to religion we would be back in the middle ages. That's exactly what those people did. Religion was used to control people and to get them to accept the life they had now in hopes of something better later on, strictly because someone said so.

So the point of all my blabbering is science kicks ****, but it doesn't disprove any God or anyones beliefs. Believe what you want, but don't **** on people who want to learn about their surroundings. I don't remember a comandment that says thou shalt not learn anything. Science isn't trying to disprove God, how would we do that even if we wanted to? Science is about learning as much as you can about what's around you. The space we live in, the world we live in, what makes it up, how to change it based on our needs.

cfrizz

Outstanding post Airplay!

MacLeod

cmy330go wrote:

This might rub some the wrong way, but...IMHO Evolution and the Big Bang theory are only for those who: 1) Are too arrogant to admit that there is someone in the universe far more intelligent than themselves, and/or 2) Don't like the idea of someday being held accountable for their actions.

Yeah, this rubs me the wrong way.

I get tired of the condescending, elitist view religious zealots have of anybody that dares not agree with them.

Give me a list of scientists that state the Big Bang Theory disproves God. In fact, give me a list of scientists that state there is no God. Other than Carl Sagan, you wont find too many. Most will tell you they dont know.

Whats arrogant is to think scientists only ambition is to disprove religion. Indeed, most will tell you science has virtually nothing to do with religion and God and couldnt care less!

Religious zealots take a bunch of stories that were pieced together thru thousands of years and were written so vaguely that they have about a million different interpretations, then claim that they explain everything but have the gonads to look down their noses at "evil" scientists because they dare ask "how was the universe created". That just galls me to no end!

Religious zealots are doing a disservice to their fellow man by denying knowledge because it threatens their precious religious views.

So I guess we could just limit science to areas that wouldnt offend religious zealots. But then which religion are we talking about? Christianity, Catholicism, Judaism, islam, Hinduism, Buddahism, Zeus, Ra..... I mean there are about as many different religions as there are people! How do we know which is right?! Youd better make sure youre right because if you chose wrong, straight to the lake of fire for you (or Kalifornia, whichever is closest).

MacLeod

unc2701 wrote:

Where were you on the global warming thread

Those guys are just trying to get Government grants.