World War III

ND13

The Muslim leaders just make me sick. These are some of the biggest hypocrites out there. They sit and complain about the West and Western influences and then answer their cell phone, check the time on their Rolex, then jump in their Hummer, Benz, BMW, Caddy limo, Bentley, Rolls, or Lincoln limo and go on about their day of oppressing their own people in air conditioned comfort.

Demiurge

PolkThug wrote:

Well, then they should blow up all civilian housing to get rid of the rocket launchers, since that's where they all are.

As I understand it Israel is was initially going after the rocket launchers that can target Tel Aviv. Hezbollah put all of their munitions among civilians. It puts Israel in a tough spot, but I personally don't blame them for taking a kill or be killed stance.

I guess it's up to you who you think is worse. The people who hide their military amongst civilians, or those who choose to save their own skin regardless.

BIZILL

ND13 wrote:

The Muslim leaders just make me sick. These are some of the biggest hypocrites out there. They sit and complain about the West and Western influences and then answer their cell phone, check the time on their Rolex, then jump in their Hummer, Benz, BMW, Caddy limo, Bentley, Rolls, or Lincoln limo and go on about their day of oppressing their own people in air conditioned comfort.

agreed, but unfortunately, that's where the fundamentalists come into play. even they (terrorist networks) look at that with spite. but for now, the fundamentalists need to 'piggy-back' on those leaders' shoulders until they can gain their own control. i'm sure that's what was on the hezbollah minds. the fundamentalists want to bring the world back to the stone ages.

MacLeod

PolkThug wrote:

Its not so black and white. I don't know if Israel is "wrong", but I do wonder how righteous they really are. Most of the Lebanese killed so far have been civilians. (and of course Israeli civilians are getting killed over this too)

Its hard to form an opinion from this far away. I like to ask questions.

Thuggy! My man! You couldnt be more wrong.

Israel, like us, are not perfect and have done their share of "bad" things, however, like us, England et al, they are still the good guys! They dont go around starting **** with people. They totally caved in to hamas yet are still attacked and bombed daily!

Hezblah, or as Rep Charles Wrangle calls them, Hellabazoo, are terrorists! They are the same thing as al queada.

I just cannot fathom how anybody can put Isreal on the same level as al queada. That just baffles me!

BIZILL

potato, pototto.

and is it hezbollah or iran claiming to have 2000 operatives (highly trained ones at that) ready to attack our interests? i take that very seriously. it doesn't seem to get enough attention.

unc2701

"You did blame America for the existence of Al-Qaeda. If America is to blame for Al-Qaeda existing, you're in turn justifying their actions as a result of our own involvement in their affairs. We brought this on ourselves, so to speak.
"
Holy non-sequitur , batman!

"explicitly blame America for the problems in the Middle East and the attacks
on 9/11"

Let me see. Explictly blaming america for 9/11 would be saying the CIA bombed the WTC. Saying that Al qaeda formed as a response to our involvement in the Middle East is a statement of fact. Look it up. Why did Bin Laden start crapping his pants over the USA starting in the early 90's? He didn't like our involvement in the Middle East. He already had a group together from when he was crapping his pants over the Soviets in Afganistan.

I take issue with anyone who takes a logical argument (Al qaeda craps its collective pants over outside involvement, if it weren't for oil, we wouldn't need to be involved because israel can defend itself, we should get oil out of the picture and get uninvolved) and implicitly accuses someone of treason.

Got it?

BIZILL

unc2701 wrote:

"You did blame America for the existence of Al-Qaeda. If America is to blame for Al-Qaeda existing, you're in turn justifying their actions as a result of our own involvement in their affairs. We brought this on ourselves, so to speak.
"
Holy non-sequitur , batman!

"explicitly blame America for the problems in the Middle East and the attacks
on 9/11"

Let me see. Explictly blaming america for 9/11 would be saying the CIA bombed the WTC. Saying that Al qaeda formed as a response to our involvement in the Middle East is a statement of fact. Look it up. Why did Bin Laden start crapping his pants over the USA starting in the early 90's? He didn't like our involvement in the Middle East. He already had a group together from when he was crapping his pants over the Soviets in Afganistan.

I take issue with anyone who takes a logical argument (Al qaeda craps its collective pants over outside involvement, if it weren't for oil, we wouldn't need to be involved because israel can defend itself, we should get oil out of the picture and get uninvolved) and implicitly accuses someone of treason.

Got it?

i agree with the 'connection' with involvement. but to deserve terrrorist actions against us for ever trying to 'help' other nations is absurd. and al queda would have risen for other reasons, and not just because of america.

MacLeod

unc2701 wrote:

We heard you the first time, comrade. You dont have to keep repeating yourself.

Demiurge

unc2701 wrote:

"You did blame America for the existence of Al-Qaeda. If America is to blame for Al-Qaeda existing, you're in turn justifying their actions as a result of our own involvement in their affairs. We brought this on ourselves, so to speak.
"
Holy non-sequitur , batman!

"explicitly blame America for the problems in the Middle East and the attacks
on 9/11"

Let me see. Explictly blaming america for 9/11 would be saying the CIA bombed the WTC. Saying that Al qaeda formed as a response to our involvement in the Middle East is a statement of fact. Look it up. Why did Bin Laden start crapping his pants over the USA starting in the early 90's? He didn't like our involvement in the Middle East. He already had a group together from when he was crapping his pants over the Soviets in Afganistan.

I take issue with anyone who takes a logical argument (Al qaeda craps its collective pants over outside involvement, if it weren't for oil, we wouldn't need to be involved because israel can defend itself, we should get oil out of the picture and get uninvolved) and implicitly accuses someone of treason.

Got it?

Your 'fact' isn't a fact at all. Al-Qaeda was formed as a result of the Soviet's involvement in Afganistan. It was not explicitly, or even remotely formed as a result of any of the United States involvement in the middle east, which you cited as a fact.

Their mission is indeed to stymie any involvement of non-muslim governments in middle eastern affairs. You're right there, but it's not an American condition. America is merely associated in that sense by it's connection to the rest of the non-muslim world. You can throw 90% of the world in with us, but you chose to specifically blame America for their rise, and then cite it as fact.

Al-Qaeda is a hateful group, and they are the enemy of the world. You make it sound as if it's an American creation. That if America didn't even buy a camel from a middle eastern nation Al-Qaeda wouldn't exist. Still you call it a non-sequiter when one surmises you blame America for it's terrorism woes...

steveinaz

Unless you want some of this....

PolkThug

MacLeod wrote:

PolkThug wrote:

Its not so black and white. I don't know if Israel is "wrong", but I do wonder how righteous they really are. Most of the Lebanese killed so far have been civilians. (and of course Israeli civilians are getting killed over this too)

Its hard to form an opinion from this far away. I like to ask questions.

Thuggy! My man! You couldnt be more wrong.

haha, what did I say that was wrong? If you read closely, I didn't even give an opinion. Did you borrow Demi's 'Jump to Conclusions Mat"?

BIZILL

actually, should you call the hezbollah lebonese?

PolkThug

I know the Israeli's can do a better job targeting people. Anybody see Munich?

http://www.munichmovie.com/splash.html

MacLeod

PolkThug wrote:

haha, what did I say that was wrong? If you read closely, I didn't even give an opinion. Did you borrow Demi's 'Jump to Conclusions Mat"?

Nah. Ive got my own!

I was referring to all your posts and was just too lazy to go thru them all and pick the right ones.

But to speak directly to that quote, Israel isnt blasting at random, theyre targeting roads and infrastructure so that hezabaloo will be cut off and cant be re-supplied by Iran and Syria. Im not doubting there have been innocent civilians killed but thats what happens in war. Israel is targeting hezabaloo strongholds and such. You dont see em blasting hospitals, restaurants and hotels do ya? Those are reserverd for muslim terrorists to blow up.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Based on everything I've read I'm supporting israel in their efforts.

But does anyone else ever wonder...

How much of the information that I'm reading is really true? I hear and read all day about how we're the good guys and these other guys are suicide bombers and all that, I just sometime wonder how reliable all this information is. I mean, we're told we're the good guys, but aren't the other guys told the same thing? Is there some Muslim group on another forum having this same discussion? We just assume that we're right, and maybe we are, but I'm sure these other guys do the same thing.

This isn't meant to blame us or say we're wrong, but this is a major question I've always struggled with. I remember being in church as a kid listening to the sermon and thinking "How we I know that we're the ones that are right and the others are wrong, how do I know it's not the other way around"?

I have those same feeling and questions around all this stuff. Sure, from everything I've read and heard it sounds like we're in the right and the other side is just crazy, but how do I know what I'm reading is accurate?

They flew planes in to our buildings, that should be a good sign of how crazy they are. But look at what we did in Dresden, Germany in WWII. I know it's not the same, but it was pretty damn barbaric and was alot more destructive.

I don't know...I like to think we're the 'good guys', and that's generally the stance I take, but always have that question in the back of mind...what if we're not???

BIZILL

no need to question, my friend.

MacLeod

How can you dispute that muslim terrorists flew planes into buildings killing over 3000 innocent civilians?

And like I said earlier, watch the Nick Berg video and then wonder who the bad guys really are.

opus

You all are doing a great job of hitting all sides so you don't need my back and forth but I would like to post 2 comments and ask one question.

A. I don't care what people that hate me and want to kill my family think, feel or want. I prefer to make them dead first.

2. I have no trouble seeing black and white because I am not saddled with this incredible guilt of being an American. And the benefits I enjoy as a American are born of freedom not diversity.

My question: When the **** hits the fan, and it will eventually, whose side are you on? Us or them? No equivocation here because there won't be time. You won't be able to pull up internet articles to prove your point. Decision time. Will it be us or them?

BIZILL

i'm actually surprised there is not more confrontation/sedition. we're just about all on the same page. guess the question of right or wrong is not going un-answered.

Demiurge

BIZILL wrote:

actually, should you call the hezbollah lebonese?

They're an arm of the Iranian military.

*edit*

I also must add that they are considered Lebonese due to them being a small part of the government there. They're heavily funded and are give munitions by the Iranian government, which is why I call them part of the Iranian military. They're essentially hired guns. Syria plays a role too, but Iran's contribution is the largest.

opus

How's this for a quote or paraphrase

Paula Zahn: Former Prime Minister Barak, Are the Israeli's prepared for heavy casulaties should Israel launch a ground campaign into Lebanon?

Barak: Yes I think we are. We live in a tough neighborhood. This is the Mideast not the Midwest. We must do what we have to.


Say what you want but that is a great quote ( or beer influenced paraphrase:rolleyes: )

MacLeod

OK. Here is proof that terrorists are stupid.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=e6rBrJhWAfk&search=volvo%20commercial

cheddar

Polkmaniac wrote:

Based on everything I've read I'm supporting israel in their efforts.

But does anyone else ever wonder...

How much of the information that I'm reading is really true? I hear and read all day about how we're the good guys and these other guys are suicide bombers and all that, I just sometime wonder how reliable all this information is. I mean, we're told we're the good guys, but aren't the other guys told the same thing? Is there some Muslim group on another forum having this same discussion? We just assume that we're right, and maybe we are, but I'm sure these other guys do the same thing.

This isn't meant to blame us or say we're wrong, but this is a major question I've always struggled with. I remember being in church as a kid listening to the sermon and thinking "How we I know that we're the ones that are right and the others are wrong, how do I know it's not the other way around"?

I have those same feeling and questions around all this stuff. Sure, from everything I've read and heard it sounds like we're in the right and the other side is just crazy, but how do I know what I'm reading is accurate?

They flew planes in to our buildings, that should be a good sign of how crazy they are. But look at what we did in Dresden, Germany in WWII. I know it's not the same, but it was pretty damn barbaric and was alot more destructive.

I don't know...I like to think we're the 'good guys', and that's generally the stance I take, but always have that question in the back of mind...what if we're not???

Can pretty much guarantee you that the other 'side' isn't asking such things in a public forum. The fact that you can ask that question and not have some nut track you down and kill you should be evidence enough of the difference between the US and the fanatics. Rest easy in knowing that the world is a better place with the US as it is than any other country in 'control'. The europeans? They created this mess in the first place. Dresden was horrible, but what do you think would have happened if hitler got the bomb? War is not about fairness and equality, it's always about protecting your own by taking out the people who want to kill you...in somalia, the muslims fired at americans with children sitting on their backs. If the children died, I put the blood on the hands of the fanatics.

tommyboy

BIZILL wrote:

no need to question, my friend.

Yes, you should. You should always see both sides, it would be unamerican not to...

cam5860

If you want to know whats taking place right now you need to read EZEKIEL chapters 38 and 39 in the bible. Chapter 38 talks about the attack from the north of israel from a Gog samething as hezballah. Chapter 39 talks about there will be a great shaking in the land of israel every mountain will fall down every wall will fall down and a sword will be called against all the brothers. And the lord says I will then be known in the eyes of many nations and they shall know that I am lord.

polkatese

cam5860 wrote:

If you want to know whats taking place right now you need to read EZEKIEL chapters 38 and 39 in the bible. Chapter 38 talks about the attack from the north of israel from a Gog samething as hezballah. Chapter 39 talks about there will be a great shaking in the land of israel every mountain will fall down every wall will fall down and a sword will be called against all the brothers. And the lord says I will then be known in the eyes of many nations and they shall know that I am lord.

You are freaking me out. I hope we (human kind) have learned enough from history, that war is not the answer to anything..and bible was written by human being.

cam5860

It amazes me how so many people don't believe nothing in the bible when what it says is plain as day. The whole reason for the lord turning nations against his people is so he can show the world that the jews are his people and that he is god and he does exist.

cam5860

People say the bible was written by human beings these human beings were people that were god's followers that walked on this earth 2,000 years ago. People act as if the bible was written yesterday. (stupid **** americans.)

PolkThug

cam5860 wrote:

It amazes me how so many people don't believe nothing in the bible when what it says is plain as day. The whole reason for the lord turning nations against his people is so he can show the world that the jews are his people and that he is god and he does exist.

Talk about taking sadism to another level! "Let me see here, I really want humans to know I exist, I could fly around the earth and let people see me, or, I could empower a group of people to slaughter all who oppose them."

MacLeod

Yeah buddy. Theyre fighting in the middle east. The Bible predicted this. It must be the end of the world. Oh yeah thats right. THEYVE BEEN FIGHTING IN THE MIDDLE EAST FOR 1000 YEARS!