SVS vs Sunfire (?)

faster100

It really depends on A: how much money you want to spend? B: how big a sub you want? and yes size and price sometimes dictate a purchase for some. The SVS is very large, almost mamoth and not for everyone.. if you have the space it performs excellent on movies AND music.. I use mine for movies 90% until recently i had a dedicated 2 channel rig that i listened to music on... plus its a large purchase either demo locally or take a chance as everyone has a return policy..

mantis

Thats good advice. All of us will have our favorite. Listening is always the key.

Dan

emcclary

Hey you have to give Bob Carver his due. If he does one thing well its to create a stir in the industry every time he introduces a "new" product line. He certainly has done some remarkable things with amps, etc over the years. Unfortunately it is done at a very high price usually.

Pinktulip7

:mad: Dude listen you are missing a point here.....Ask u'rself what do you want A.A decent high end Sub B.Cosmetic value/size/color etc................
I listen too many Sub in last couple of years nothing even came close to SVS :mad:

Frank Z

Why are you getting pissed? Value has more to do with perception than $$$. There are far to many variables when it comes to choosing sub's, speakers, electronics, etc. There simply isn't a single sub on the market that can meet everyones requirements or expectations. Buy whatever looks the best/sounds the best/smells the best to you[/] and not what what everyone else thinks is the right choice. If a $100 sub rattles your fancy then who's to say it's garbage.

PolknPepsi

I have the mid sized SVS cylinder and have thought about the Sunfire and Martin Logan for their smaller size.

For movies and a tight budget with plenty of space I would vote SVS.

faster100

Svs's arent all that cheap.... start at 500.00 up to like 2500.00 isn't budget or cheap, they have from basic black to high end finishes so all this budget bang for buck makes em sound like cheap subs.. If you gotta have small and a well known name..... plenty to choose from. if you want something that works with anything and is huge... SVS

audiobliss

Frank Z wrote:

If a $100 sub rattles your fancy then who's to say it's garbage.

Me.

But, then, we all know I know nothing. So, it wouldn't really matter anyways.



If/when I get a sub (man...I can't even see that far into the future...*sigh*), it'll *probably* be a HSU. Very musical, reasonably sized, look good, great prices.

gadgetman

I usually place the sub at corner of the wall for a deep bass. Some critics say put in the front near the other speakers.

PolknPepsi

yeah, that PB10 does start at $430.00 and it all goes up from there.

Even though I measured over and over again before purchasing the cylinder it still seemed huge when it arrived. :eek:

The HSU comes in a beautiful reddish wood color like the Rocket speakers.

I would guess the sub should go where it sounds best.

VR3

gadgetman wrote:

I usually place the sub at corner of the wall for a deep bass. Some critics say put in the front near the other speakers.

Putting the sub in the corner means nothing more than a boom box. Keep it out of the corner for music.

Frank Z

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote:

Putting the sub in the corner means nothing more than a boom box. Keep it out of the corner for music.

WRONG! One of the best places for any sub is in the corner of the room, preferably when one of the walls is the longest unbroken wall (no doors/windows). Corner loading a sub can dramatically increase the amount of bass in a room.

Obviously everyone's room is going to be different so careful consideration should be given to all placement options. The easiest method is to place your sub in your primary listening position and then try standing/sitting/kneeling in multiple places in the room. Once you've found the spot that the sub sounds the best without being able to pinpoint where the bass is coming from(localization), that's where you put the sub.

VR3

Yes, it can increase the amount of bass in a room. But sometimes that means it turns into a boomy sub.

Of course this will be different room to room. But generally, if you are looking for music first... the corner is not exactly your best starting point.

I'm not saying your wrong...

But you are saying I am wrong...

The farther my sub gets away from the corner, the more it tightens up, and this seems to follow with alot of people.

ninerbj

Soory Sidman...Frank's point is a good one. Hell...even the SVS sight will tell ya the same!
I came onto this conversation late in the game so excuse me if I hash an old topic.
I myself own an SVS (25-31 PCi) but damn...I have heard the Sunfire MANY times and that little beast can hold it's own PERIOD!
Would I say SVS is better? Hell no. Taste ...it's all in the taste of your flavor.

VR3

You both are totally ignoring my point. I mean its annoying.
Selective reading I guess?

I am NOT saying there are no benefits to corner loading. The benefits are increased output, lower extention. Yeah yeah yeah... who cares?

I'm talking MUSIC. Corner loading for MUSIC, is NOT always a good idea. Especially in most rooms. Getting a subwoofer AWAY** from walls is desireable for music. The less the house adds on, THE BETTER. Look at your house as nothing more than a trampoline, it resonates, it flexes... it adds ALOT to the music that you don't want in all frequencies.

Getting your sub AWAY from the walls is a good thing...

If your reply to my response right here involves the word Extention, Output, Increase infront of either of those words, please don't even reply. I know those benefits. If you can explain why moving a sub AWAY from the corner is bad for music... please, explain.

SVS says...

"Yet for the lowest extension, and the greatest natural reinforcement of the bass sound pressure level (SPL) corner placement is nearly always best in nearly every shape room (and regardless of the brand of subwoofer).. "

This is basically what you try to accomplish in a HT setup, but this is NOT always a desireable trait in music. HT does not really contain defined bass by no margin, your sub could be off the wall boomy and you wouldnt even notice it.

If you are running a music setup right now with your sub in the corner, try moving it out of the corner. You may lose some output, but the other results make up for it. The only time I have found a sub needing corner placement for music is when it just was to small for the room and couldnt keep up. It needed the reinforcement just to sound somewhat good.

Dennis Gardner

Sid,

You better quit while you are only slightly behind, as quitting while you were ahead in this thread was abandoned after the first page. I know you have a lot af knowledge and experience with different types of speaks and subs, BUT, you are coming off as a know-it-all a**hole with the blatant statements bashing designs and placement other than those you use.

Chill out, loosen up and think before you type. I recall a thread a couple months back when you were touting the new found love for music without a sub. Why even discuss placement. BTW, lower extension and increased output have never been the qualities of boomboxes.

DG

VR3

I'm not trying to come off that way at all. I'm just sick of people ignoring various points of my argument, which is the only basis of my argument. The first part of my argument in this thread, was value. Now my argument is music.

There are different variables for different materials. For movies we have different placement, where a corner is better and a higher crossover is better. Where as with music, a more toned down subwoofer... with a lower crossover point is better.

Again, I'm not trying to say I know it all, but its often been found by a few on here and other forums keeping your sub away from the corner in music leads to a good thing.

As for bashing Sunfire... small subs are just something I don't "understand". While I understand why we have them, I also don't understand why we do... I don't mean to bash, reall I dont.

I think it goes along the lines its the exact opposite of what I have been taught... I've been taught that small speakers are never going to be as good as large speakers. So trying to put a small subwoofer in the same sentence as an absolutely gigantic subwoofer just confuses me. Because people saying that large speakers are better than small ones always, are the ones sitting here arguing the Sunfire is a great subwoofer. Which, I am sure it is - really, but I don't understand half of the entire platform behind it if that makes sense...

To me it is just "wrong". And when people tell me its good because its small, I just get frustrated more because I still don't understand it. I don't understand the entire thing to the point of being able to see the side of the owner of the Sunfire or any small subwoofer. It just hasn't been something I have been taught.

My apologies. I'm just tired of people arguing points I'm not even arguing...

When people just skim what your saying on a forum, or just ignore what you are trying to say - just reminds me of when people cut you off in a conversation to but into a point that is half made. They get half the story and start to make up their mind. This annoys me to no end, and it isn't any different on a forum.

Now maybe I should of explained my first post a bit more...

Also, I meant boombox as booom booom booom from a box... not a boombox boombox

audiobliss

I'd hafta say I think Sid's posts are just fine. He's had a lot of experience and has learned a lot, and his arguments all make sense and are relevant. I don't think he's coming off too strong at all. However, that depends on perception, which is different for everybody. BUT[/i], that doesn't affect the validity of his arguments.

Dennis Gardner

I'm cool with Sid, we just see things a little different sometimes. I have 4 boys that are just as opinionated as he is so I call BS when I smell it. I know that for his age, he knows tons about what he discusses as the "young grasshopper" has learned much.

It is just his short little statements that look like "end-all/be-all" comments that I can't let slide. They express the anger and disgust that resides in him, not the facts of the discussion.

SVS subs are one of, if not the "best bass for the $$$" subs that money can buy. We are in total agreement there. Sunfire wins the "best bass for the space" category. Frank understands this and this makes his viewpoint valid. They have totally different design goals with both achieving those goals.

For the best bass, I still choose Infinite Baffle. Oh yeah, thats another thread.

Frank Z

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote:

... small subs are just something I don't "understand". While I understand why we have them, I also don't understand why we do... I don't mean to bash, reall I dont.

I think it goes along the lines its the exact opposite of what I have been taught... I've been taught that small speakers are never going to be as good as large speakers. So trying to put a small subwoofer in the same sentence as an absolutely gigantic subwoofer just confuses me. Because people saying that large speakers are better than small ones always, are the ones sitting here arguing the Sunfire is a great subwoofer. Which, I am sure it is - really, but I don't understand half of the entire platform behind it if that makes sense...

Read this and you'll have a better understanding of why a large box/tube is not needed to make dep powerfull bass. Yes you can get incredible sound from less than 1 square foot of floor space, enough to rival any other sub being discussed here. Better than any of them?...well that's for the individual to decide. Do I think the Sunfire sounds better than the SVS, no opinion because I've never heard an SVS, but I do know that you don't need to sacrifice a bunch of acreage for a sub.

95Honda

Just think of how great of a sub you guys could have designed together in the time took writting all these posts... heh heh heh....

Dennis Gardner

Sub design will be discussed till the end of time, since "big bass" is the horsepower of audio and how to get horsepower has been around since engines came on to the scene.

Bench racing is our favorite pastime, since our wives don't let us out of the house.

BIZILL

95Honda wrote:

Just think of how great of a sub you guys could have designed together in the time took writting all these posts... heh heh heh....

..............and imagine all of the shank wounds!!! :eek:

95Honda

Seriously though, in my opinion, if someone likes something, then it is right for them.... Even if it is something that sounds awfull. Not to mention most people have never even heard reference levels of bass....

It took me 15 years and about 50 different subwoofers being built before I built what I consider pretty much untouchable by almost anyones standards....

And I still want more......

madmax

Sunfire vs SVS? I've heard both. The sunfire is all about pressure and the SVS is all about tone. I'll take tone every time. The sunfire is cool in my opinion but I would have trouble enjoying it for any amount of time. Just my opinion.
madmax

VR3

Frank...
Its not that I have issues understanding that a small box can create bass. That isnt the issue, Ive heard the Velo DD series do it.

What I have problems comprehending is why you would spend 2-3 times the price just to get small sub that performs the same, if not less than a larger subwoofer.

See being a kid, on a tight budget, that has been pretty much taught to get the best deal available on a sonic level, buying something because of its size just dosnt make sense to me.

Now it is hard for me to understand exactly why someone would want to spend more to get similar performance of a larger product.

To me, this makes almost no sense. This may be offensive or whatever... but to me it just makes next to zero sense.

Dennis Gardner

Its easy Sid, size matters to Debbie Z.

VR3

Now THAT I can understand...

Its when you would choose small over large when those restrictions arnt there that I dont get...

Dennis Gardner

I think your "most for your money" approach is solid, and I think that almost all of us feel the same way. Big sub boxes really do intrude into a space like a living room or a nicely done theater room like Frank's. The balance of sound and decor is always of importance when you are looking for the right look though.

VR3

Yeah, when Liquid Sound made his way over here, the first thing he said was the SVS was massive, much larger than the pictures make them look. But he also said they look real good, much better than the pictures make them seem. The cloth they use is very elegant...

And one of the points he made was it wouldnt take up much floor space than his Velodyne CHT 8 he had... I mean 16" round isnt that bad. But in Franks room, having a large water heater would look akward I guess...