SVS vs Sunfire (?)

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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,300
    edited September 2005
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    Most subwoofers sound the same, they have a characteristic of producing low frequencies, which are supposed to be an extention of the midbass and nothing more. Specs usually can determine what a subwoofer can or can not do.

    Just from knowing the design aspects behind the Sunfire, all I can imagine is nothing more than a strained sound - and Doc basically just said it above.

    1.5 K for a subwoofer with a max SPL of 110db? That might be impressive for an 11" cube, but frankly - I can hit levels of 110-115db peak. I even did that in a larger room. The PC Ultra, $1,000 - not even a comparison.

    My argument is not based around its sound, I havn't heard it. I am talking completely on a value stand-point and the basis of small, cube subwoofers in general. Every small, cube subwoofer I have heard - even from my favorite speaker company by far has not impressed me. They all have one thing in common, noise - lots of noise with no force. Yes, this is generalization, but Bob Carver is not smart enough to figure out years ago what current brands, right now can't do. What makes him to so smart to stop them from buying his product and figuring it all out?
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited September 2005
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    My point, Sid, in case you missed it is it's OK to recommend or not recommend an item that you are knowledgable about. It's quite another to dismiss a product that you've never even seen and still be credible.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,300
    edited September 2005
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    Point taken and agreed upon.

    Dosn't nessicarially change the entire basis of my argument though?? :confused: My entire argument is based around the fact it offers next to nothing except size for the price... :) - Therefore, that would make SVS better... (in my eyes) - I guess it depends on what qualities you are looking for... :cool:
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,300
    edited September 2005
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    What other subs are you going to audition?

    I thought you were picking up a Velo DD?
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • Schris22
    Schris22 Posts: 983
    edited September 2005
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    i'm gonna build a small one for music rig only soon...

    but just wanted to say...at least right out flaming with deroggatory terms didn't occur here....

    communication...

    Chris
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR502-S
    DVD Player: Pioneer DV-578A-S
    Left and Right: R50
    Center: CS1
    Rear Center: R15
    Surrounds: R30
    Subwoofer: 10'' Dayton 100 Watt
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,300
    edited September 2005
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    Troy, Russ, and I have had our time of flaming and derogatory names. We have, overall come to a "peace" of sorts.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited September 2005
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    Yeah, I rock, and you're still a moron. ;)

    Granted, less of a moron than you used to be, but still a moron nontheless.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited September 2005
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    I never directly compared my svs with anything other than a psw350 but since I have have banged down a few beers Ima goin ta speaka my experience.

    I shut my subs down if listening to music and turn them on for ht.

    Its up to the individual and all I can say is have fun while your experimenting.

    twin
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited September 2005
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    Troy, Russ, and I have had our time of flaming and derogatory names. We have, overall come to a "peace" of sorts.

    I'd like to know where I flamed you or was derrogatory......
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited September 2005
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    TroyD wrote:
    I'd like to know where I flamed you or was derrogatory......

    you have not so don't worry about it bro.

    twin :D
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited September 2005
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    Do you really want to know? Who cares. We talking tonight or what? Ima tie one on.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited September 2005
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    perhaps its time to start a party thread...
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited September 2005
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    What the hell, I need another post tonight. Thanks for feedback Guys. Looks like a call to Uncle Jesse. Time to watch A Bug's Life.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!

    NORTH of 60°
  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited September 2005
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    Never heard an SVS, no desire to buy one so no need to listen to one. Go listen to the Sunfire subs, you will be impressed.
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited September 2005
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    Frank Z wrote:
    Go listen to the Sunfire subs, you will be impressed.

    I'm sure the Sunfire is great but with an SDA why muddy up the playing field?

    twin
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited September 2005
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    Frank makes a GREAT point. Throw out all the charts and graphs you want to, I'll let my ears be the judge. I LIKE Sunfire. Always have, always will.

    There are a small handful of REAL audio guru's left in the world. We lost Saul Marantz. We lost Henry Kloss. We lost Paul Klipsch, and many many more. The audio 'old timers' are exactly that, old. When an audio old-timer talks, you better listen, and listen good. I have, many times, and I'm a better Hi-Fi nut because of it.

    Beit a world renown designer, or an old man at swap-n-sell parts house. Soak it up.

    Cheers,
    Rooster
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited September 2005
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    Thanks Russ, It's all in and in-between the ears.

    Henry,
    Not you in particular. I agree that the SDA's don't need a sub. My comment was for general consumtion.
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited September 2005
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    Frank Z wrote:
    Thanks Russ, It's all in and in-between the ears.

    Henry,
    Not you in particular.

    understood

    and

    Yes its between the ears! I have NEVER told anyone they were wrong...

    I have; however, been fortunate enough to reap the benefit of OLD gear and I love it. Your LP sytem is my point...

    twin
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,300
    edited September 2005
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    Troy,
    You've flamed me, trust me - when I first joined this forum, for a few years.

    However, if I were to run into myself right now at the age of 13-14 - I would be flaming myself and calling myself names too. ;)

    I like being a slightly less moron!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,860
    edited September 2005
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    Just wait till you're 30 and look back 15 years. :eek:


    I though I had the world by the balls at every milestone in my life too. Later I realized I was just there keeping the sack clean. :D
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,126
    edited September 2005
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    Well I have tons of experience listening to small subs and I have also listened to 2 different SVS subs....

    I wasn't impressed with the SVS, actually I was dissapointed. The SVS subs are easy to find in a room, they call all kinds of attention to themselves. I think they are nothing more then a internet cheap sub that many like because there loud and very punchy. For music I wall go to say they flat out suck.

    Bob carver True subs are not my cup of tea. There nice and small and very wife friendly but I think they sound forced. Just like the Velodyne DD subs. They don't have a natural sound. You can hear small "pops" when they are driven hard. Even at moderate levels , they POP and make noise.

    A true musical sub is REL. There is nothing on the market I have heard ( and I have heard tone of subs) that can blend into a system and fool you into thinking the bass is coming from the front speakers. WHen properly calibrated for both music and movies (REL is ver unique here) They are the best sounding subs I ever have the pleasure of working with.
    One company which shocked me that makes incredible soundng subs is Martin Logan. They just got into the sub bussiness a few years ago and when they did, they blew me away. There subs all the way down to there cheapest model sound awesome with music.
    Music is how I judge a sub. Can it blend in and sound like it's apart of the system?

    I would not buy a SVS sub.

    I wanna add something else. Spec's are spec's. sub can go down to 20 hz or below but if it can't do it well is it a good sub????
    I don't live my life around spec's. I live it by actually listening to products and judging them by real world performance. Anyone can write spec's. But do the spec's sound good???

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited September 2005
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    Troy,
    You've flamed me, trust me - when I first joined this forum, for a few years.

    However, if I were to run into myself right now at the age of 13-14 - I would be flaming myself and calling myself names too. ;)

    I like being a slightly less moron!

    Just to set the record straight Sid...go back and re-read. While I would have taken you to task over improper etiquette or something that just didn't make sense, I generally do not flame people just to be spiteful (a few notable exceptions exist)

    Sorry Russ, I had to answer Uncle Sam's call.....

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited September 2005
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    Music is how I judge a sub. Can it blend in and sound like it's apart of the system?

    Or you could just buy a good FR speaker and a man's amp to drive it with from jump street. :D

    No need for subs in this house. Got that wisdom from an old coot/hifi nut.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,126
    edited September 2005
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    Having or not having a sub as part of ones system is a choice you can make. For home theater, I don't care how bad **** your mains are, it's a channel needed to complete the soundtrack.
    2 channel is about the music experience. If this can be done and had without a sub, thats a good thing.

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited September 2005
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    My whole point. I want the HT part probably more than the 2CH. Then again, additional bass quality would not be ignored. The analysis continues. I guess I have never been an impluse buyer.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!

    NORTH of 60°
  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited September 2005
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    I've heard the SVS, Sunfire, Rel, etc... Know what I found? You need to listen for yourself. I like the sunfires for smaller rigs say an LSI7 rig and a hidden sub. The SVS for HT, the SVS ultra to play with the maggies, and Rels? Those are to sell to fund other purchases in my book
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited September 2005
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    I agree, listen to them first. Unfortunately, that is NOT an option for me due to my geographic location. Therefore, I rely on the valued opinion of Polk Folks that have not done me wrong in the past.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!

    NORTH of 60°
  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited September 2005
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    Ok another sub to consider. Anyone ever heard a REL Stratus I sub? Fairly old sub, probably over 10 years old.
    I hope the hell I don't open that can of worms again!
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!

    NORTH of 60°
  • faster100
    faster100 Posts: 6,124
    edited September 2005
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    Listening to my SVS Pb12/2 tonight on the HT rig in 2 channel mode, Sounds damm good and accurate to me on music.. and when the lights are out id be darned if i can tell where the sub is located. Its to each is own, I don't like subs in my 2 channel either, so no need for a little sub.. If i needed one though it wouldn't be one for a grand or more, be it sunfire, REL or any other high dollar mini sub. It's just not needed. If i want to hear a sub in a movie i'll stick with my SVS any day, No need to soul search for another sub when this does great!!

    Ya gotta listen to a sub for yourself, a half dozen people will love this sub or that, the more experienced will swear thier choice is better... The die hards will swear thiers is better... Just the way it is
    MY HT RIG:
    Sherwood p-965
    Sherwood sd871 dvd
    Rotel 1075 amp x5
    LSI15 mains
    LsiC center
    LSIfx surround backs
    Lsi7 side surrounds
    SVS pb12/plus2


    2 Channel Rig:

    nad 1020 Pre-amp
    Rotel 1080 stereo amp
    Polk sda 2B
    kenwood grunt Tuner
    realistic lab 450 TT
    Signal cable IC
  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited September 2005
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    It's always tough to replace something that you are comfortable with. I agree, different people hear different things. Maybe I can listen to a few subs as I will be doing a little business travel in a week or so. Not much in Yellowknife, but Ottawa & Toronto do have more to offer.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!

    NORTH of 60°