Home Defense

exalted512

a tippmann A5 and a deadly assassin monkey hiding in the closet...
-Cody

munk

We're talking home defense from an intruder, right? Not a fanatic line of Terrorists showing up on the limestone cliffs above my house shouting, "death to the running dogs."

I have small children so I keep my beloved revolvers locked up. The little guys can't rack the slide on either the Colt Delta Elite 10 mm or the Springfield 1911, and I normally have the Colt at bedside.

Also by the bed is a Cherokee Rose by Himalayan Imports. This 25 oz and 19.5" Bowie of differentially hardened steel will take care of most bumps in the night. It alternates in the spot with a Himalayan Imports 18" Villager Khukuri, 28 oz and 18" long. What I like about a khukuri is I don't have to be an Expert Anything: a single strike anywhere on an opponents body will end most engagments, as easily as it ends ownership of a limb.

There is also a khukuri by the computer desk at all times.

I actually don't think about these things. I use the khuks for chopping wood with my sons. They run around in the woods and I get some exercise.


munk

Demiurge

Shotgun is the best home defense bar none. Also protects you from potential lawsuits if you're in a densely populated area.

If you own a handgun and that's all you have...you best be training with is bi-monthly or you might as well not have it in your house.

You won't rise to the occasion, you'll default to your level of training.

munk

The shotgun is a wonderful self defense tool, and for that matter, sporting arm, meat getter, and all around companion.

One of the most common myths about the handgun says it is an involved tool that requires either an expert's hand or constant diligence. This is not precisely correct. The reality is the handgun, like any tool, is best when you are knowledgeable and experienced, but after basic safety and handling education it is a competant choice for many people.
Come to think of it though, if it was one of the modern, 'decock', lock, safe, double action/ single action machines I'd reccomend something simpler like a revolver.


munk

phuz

SIG P229R in the home, P239 for normal carry. Both .40

BobMcG

Everyday carry: Firestorm Mini-Firestorm 40S&W w/Fed 155gr HYDRA-SHOKs

Just for home defense: 12ga w/00 buck and 9mm carbine with flashhider/muzzle brake, LED flashlight, laser sight, Rem 124gr GS+P ammo and spare mag holder.

For a defense of more than just home? I've got it covered too.

Demiurge

Originally posted by munk
The shotgun is a wonderful self defense tool, and for that matter, sporting arm, meat getter, and all around companion.

One of the most common myths about the handgun says it is an involved tool that requires either an expert's hand or constant diligence. This is not precisely correct. The reality is the handgun, like any tool, is best when you are knowledgeable and experienced, but after basic safety and handling education it is a competant choice for many people.
Come to think of it though, if it was one of the modern, 'decock', lock, safe, double action/ single action machines I'd reccomend something simpler like a revolver.


munk

Fumbling around in the dark for a hand-gun with adrenaline racing in the middle of the night can cause humungous problems for someone who isn't adequately trained. Training is constant and just going through the motions of learning how to use it and being 'safe' with it isn't enough. You have to practice, practice, practice so that you won't ever have to really use it and so that if you do need to you will no how. Bullets from a 9mm, .40, .45, etc...will travel through walls. Thus potentially causing you a lot more problems than being robbed ever would. Not just the fact you could have children and other family members in adjacent rooms, but neighbors, etc. that can become innocent victims of wild gunfire.

Not to mention taking down a man hopped up on meth with a handgun can always be a real treat.

Using a shotgun with buck or bird shot is the best route. I've got an FN police Tac shotgun with the flashlight, etc. Fortunately I've never needed it, but I'm not in the best neighboorhood. I'm an avid hunter and I just like shooting at the range for sport as it is.

I'm not against handguns for home defense, but I've heard a lot of stories of people with handguns who fell back on their level of training and ended up having the weapon used on them and have had collateral damage done to others around them.

munk

One year a bogus study determined a handgun in the home was 43 times more likely to be used against the home's occupants than bad guys. The New England Journel of Medicine printed this material without peer review. Needless to say, it was wrong.

In my experience the 'handgun left for experts or constant trainings' is a chestnut promoted by various anti gun groups.

Over penetration with any cartridge is solved by selecting the appropriate round and load for your environment. There are highly expanding self defense loads for handgun or rifle, and shotgun for that matter.

familiarity with any weapon is highly desirable. A firearm is not, as hollywood movies promote, something to pick up and point at people. There is no logical reason a handgun is harder to master than a long gun, for self defense, at typical self defense ranges in home. In fact, for many short statured people, a handgun may be the better choice. Remember, we are not discussing Olympic Bullseye shooting, but hitting a large target at close quarters.

In many cases, women are actually better handgun shots than men from the get go.

munk

Early B.

I used to have a shotgun for home defense, but switched to a handgun because I wanted to have one hand free to open doors, dial a phone, etc. Plus, I wanted something smaller when going around tight corners in my home. Seems to me that it would be easier for an intruder to catch you by surprise and wrestle a shotgun away from you than a handgun. Just my opinion, though, but any comments are appreciated.

shack

Originally posted by munk
One year a bogus study determined a handgun in the home was 43 times more likely to be used against the home's occupants than bad guys. The New England Journel of Medicine printed this material without peer review. Needless to say, it was wrong.

In my experience the 'handgun left for experts or constant trainings' is a chestnut promoted by various anti gun groups.

My experience is more "1st person" than anyone on this forum (I guarantee it!) and I would concur with that study.

dylan

1) Mossberg short barrel (ex-Marshall's gun)
2) 125 lb great dane + lab
3) Ask questions later

The Groene family murders/ kidnapping were about 8 miles from my house. Makes you think pretty hard about protecting your family that close to your back yard. Looks like it may be a random pick by the killer, but no one really knows right now.

Another sick item: my wife's friend has a husband in Iraq, with signs about supporting the troops in her front yard. Some loser broke in to her house in the middle of the night, only to find her awake. She locked her daughter in her room, and was chased down the hallway to her own room, where she was also able to lock the door. Only something different happened: she used to be in the Army and came barging back out of her room locked and loaded. Was able to clip the burglar before he ran out of the house, leaving a large blood trail.

The police told her to take down her flags and support the troops signs, as they have had a rash of burglaries aimed at houses where they thought the husband would be gone.

Every time you think people can't get more sick...

steveinaz

As a handgun marksmanship trainer for 12 years in the US Army with the M1911A1 and M9, and an avid competition handgun shooter myself for over 25 years, anyone who gets "disarmed" by an intruder lacked the proper training and practice. You've got to have a plan, and practice it regularly. I constantly drill my wife on what to do, how to react and where to seek cover and defend herself if necessary. I will never leave my wife unarmed and unable to defend herself, period. The problem is, probably 70% of gun owners have no formal training.

Times have changed, gouls are no longer satisfied with stealing your stuff, now thay want to get their gun off too.

Better to judged by 12 than carried by 6.

landry_p2000

Originally posted by phuz
SIG P229R in the home, P239 for normal carry. Both .40

I see that the .40S&W is a very popular cartridge around the country. I like it for the size and velocity. It is quick as a 9mm, and almost expands like .45ACP. The best of both worlds.

As far as a shotgun for home defense, it could work out fine, and I don't have any personal experience with home invasion but, a long gun would SEEM to be easier for the bad guy to get up on you and wrestle with you to take it. A pistol seems to be easier to hold onto and plus leaves a free hand to help fight them off. The thing about the bullet hitting other people through walls; there are bullets that fragment on impact with a hard object which will minimize the possibility of a hitting a family member or neighbor. Glaser, Bee-Safe, and several other are on the market today. The Shelby County Deputy I talked to also suggest that I used hollow point ammo over slugs. Slugs will go through walls much easier than JHP ammo. JHP ammo will also, but the chances of that happening are a lot less than a slug will give you.

Landry

landry_p2000

Originally posted by steveinaz
As a handgun marksmanship trainer for 12 years in the US Army with the M1911A1 and M9, and an avid competition handgun shooter myself for over 25 years, anyone who gets "disarmed" by an intruder lacked the proper training and practice. You've got to have a plan, and practice it regularly. I constantly drill my wife on what to do, how to react and where to seek cover and defend herself if necessary. I will never leave my wife unarmed and unable to defend herself, period. The problem is, probably 70% of gun owners have no formal training.

Times have changed, gouls are no longer satisfied with stealing your stuff, now thay want to get their gun off too.

Better to judged by 12 than carried by 6.

That is good that your wife will cooperate like that. My fiance is afraid of guns. I am only gone from home during the day, and so is she which is not a problem so far but, It would be nice to know that if I am not there she would shoot if she had to.
I had a .38 snub nose revolver which she fired a few times, and would probably be her best bet. I plan on getting her one soon, and sending her through the gun permit training class as well. She is afraid now, but if I keep working with her, she will get over her fear hopefully. Atleast she will try now.:rolleyes:

Landry

steveinaz

Don't buy her a snub-nosed revolver. These are one of the most difficult guns to shoot well. Get at least a 3 inch barreled revolver or automatic; minimum .38 special revolver; 9mm in auto pistol. 4 inch is better still---less muzzle flip and more sight radius (which equals accuracy).

landry_p2000

Originally posted by steveinaz
Don't buy her a snub-nosed revolver. These are one of the most difficult guns to shoot well. Get at least a 3 inch barreled revolver or automatic; minimum .38 special revolver; 9mm in auto pistol. 4 inch is better still---less muzzle flip and more sight radius (which equals accuracy).

Thanks Steve. I have been looking at the Ruger SP101. It comes in a longer barrel as well. Will a .357 magnum with a 4 inch barrel be too much for her? The automatic is more complicated for some women. She did not grow up around guns, so simplicity is the key for her I guess. Just point and shoot. No action to pinch a hand.

steveinaz

Ruger's are great, I would NOT get her a .357 magnum until she is a seasoned shooter---they are very potent in a smaller revolver. One of the biggest mistakes us guys make is buying too much gun for our girls. Shooting is not enjoyable if your hand hurts, and turns most women off quickly to the sport. Start her off with a .22 auto pistol or revolver, get her interested and learning the basics, then upgrade. Shooting handguns well is NOT an easy task. It requires way more concentration than long guns.

Do they still make the SP101 in 9mm? That would be a good choice in the 3" or longer length. 9mm falls ballistically somewhere in between .38 special and .357 magnum...

ND13

Originally posted by steveinaz
Ruger's are great, I would NOT get her a .357 magnum until she is a seasoned shooter---they are very potent in a smaller revolver. One of the biggets mistakes us guys make, is buying too much gun for our girls. Shooting is not enjoyable if your hand hurts, and turns most women off quickly to the sport. Start her off with a .22 auto pistol or revolver, get her interested, then upgrade.

Do they still make the SP101 in 9mm? That would be a good choice in the 3" or longer length. 9mm falls ballistically somewhere in between .38 special and .357 magnum...

Steve,

I've always been under the impression that a 380 is a great handgun for women. Is that, for the most part, correct?

steveinaz

No. .380's are just not powerful enough to get the job done. .38 special is the BARE minimum, and I personally don't recommend .38's. You get much more performance out of 9mm, with a very minimal increase in recoil; in other words, more bang for the buck. In fact 9mm automatics usually recoil less than a .38 special in a revolver because the action of an auto pistol absorbs alot of the recoil.

steveinaz

My wife never had a problem with my love for guns, but didn't care for them herself. I finally talked her into shooting with me one day, and she had a ball.

The secret? Start your girl out small. A .22 and a brown paper grocery bag at 7 yards. It's no fun if you miss, right? Explain to her and demonstrate with a "cleared" pistol how the gun works. Show her all the steps; loading, chambering, locking, firing, extracting, ejecting, locking, etc. And of course all of the safety features on the weapon and the BIG 3 safety rules. (hearing protection is a must).

Must of all.....BE PATIENT. I can't believe how many pissed off husbands I see at the range because their wife can't hit the target within the first 5 minutes of ever shooting a handgun---IGNORANT. Take your time, and let her know to take her time. It's not a contest.

If she gains an interest, get her a gun of her own. Before you know it, she'll be bugging you to take her to the range...

If YOU want to learn, put your ego on hold and hit the range. Most "gun people" love new comers to the hobby, and will almost always offer help and tips---and usually insist you shoot their guns, They are by and large great people that love to shoot. Also, nothing beats formal training---but like evrything, everyone has their own ideas about how to shoot well, so do your research.

Polkersince85

Don't underestimate what a cheap disposable camera with a flash can do at night, in a dark house or car door. Then dude is "blind" for 2-3 mins. You get his picture. too.

ND13

Originally posted by steveinaz
My wife never had a problem with my love for guns, but didn't care for them herself. I finally talked her into shooting with me one day, and she had a ball.

The secret? Start your girl out small. A .22 and a brown paper grocery bag at 7 yards. It's no fun if you miss, right? Explain to her and demonstrate with a "cleared" pistol how the gun works. Show her all the steps; loading, chambering, locking, firing, extracting, ejecting, locking, etc. And of course all of the safety features on the weapon and the BIG 3 safety rules. (hearing protection is a must).

Must of all.....BE PATIENT. I can't believe how many pissed off husbands I see at the range because their wife can't hit the target within the first 5 minutes of ever shooting a handgun---IGNORANT. Take your time, and let her know to take her time. It's not a contest.

If she gains an interest, get her a gun of her own. Before you know it, she'll be bugging you to take her to the range...

If YOU want to learn, put your ego on hold and hit the range. Most "gun people" love new comers to the hobby, and will almost always offer help and tips---and usually insist you shoot their guns, They are by and large great people that love to shoot. Also, nothing beats formal training---but like evrything, everyone has their own ideas about how to shoot well, so do your research.

It's like teaching you wife how to drive a manual tranny.

Demiurge

Originally posted by Polkersince85
Don't underestimate what a cheap disposable camera with a flash can do at night, in a dark house or car door. Then dude is "blind" for 2-3 mins. You get his picture. too.

And he's still alive to know where to come back to after his slap on the wrist. :rolleyes:

marker

Take 'em out to the pen at gunpoint and sic the dogs on their ****!

gshisme

Originally posted by munk
The shotgun is a wonderful self defense tool
munk

That ominous sound of a cartridge being pumped into the chamber is enough to scare the living shite out of an intruder. Remington 870 with eight shot mag....

marker

The sound of a big revolver like a 45, 44 or 357 being cocked will also do this!

LiquidSound

First off, a rechargeable flashlight so strong you can literally touch the bottom of low flying aircraft. After their sight is gone, there are several hand held weapons I have to choose from. From a few, very vicious self made weapons, to different blades, to a golf club. Not to mention the 11 pound, solid steel prototype nunchaku I designed. They're slow, yes..but whatever they connect with is crushed. I plan on marketing the design once I can get the 6 to 12 grand it takes to patent the moving part. Yes I'll make lighter, more functional pairs.
A handgun is on the shopping list for sure. Sure they can run, but I'll have lots of little friends that can run faster than they can.:D

landry_p2000

Originally posted by steveinaz
My wife never had a problem with my love for guns, but didn't care for them herself. I finally talked her into shooting with me one day, and she had a ball.

The secret? Start your girl out small. A .22 and a brown paper grocery bag at 7 yards. It's no fun if you miss, right? Explain to her and demonstrate with a "cleared" pistol how the gun works. Show her all the steps; loading, chambering, locking, firing, extracting, ejecting, locking, etc. And of course all of the safety features on the weapon and the BIG 3 safety rules. (hearing protection is a must).

Must of all.....BE PATIENT. I can't believe how many pissed off husbands I see at the range because their wife can't hit the target within the first 5 minutes of ever shooting a handgun---IGNORANT. Take your time, and let her know to take her time. It's not a contest.

If she gains an interest, get her a gun of her own. Before you know it, she'll be bugging you to take her to the range...

If YOU want to learn, put your ego on hold and hit the range. Most "gun people" love new comers to the hobby, and will almost always offer help and tips---and usually insist you shoot their guns, They are by and large great people that love to shoot. Also, nothing beats formal training---but like evrything, everyone has their own ideas about how to shoot well, so do your research.

Thanks Steve. That is a great plan if I ever heard one. I talked to her about it last night and she agreed to go to the range with me. I think I will stick with a revolver for her because of the simplicity of operation. I am going to look up a good 22LR revolver to start her out with.

read-alot

"32 gun in my pocket for fun got a razor in my shoe"

She keeps a P228 20 rd clip on her nightstand.
I keep a Smith 357 wheel and a 3 inch pump magnum.

Sign in Yard

"If found here at night you will be found here in the morning"

Oh BTW: She is highly trained and shoots her Sig often.

dkg999

For defense of the apt. in the Republic of Little Dickie Daley - SIG P220 with Hornaday TAP rounds and a Surefire flashlight.

For defense of the home in IA - H&K USP in .45 ACP and a bigger Surefire flashlight.

Defending the farm from Meth Lab's - DPMS LR308 (.308 cal, like an AR10) loaded with Hornaday TAP ammo and a Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Casull, a 4 cell Maglite, and a Yamaha Grizzly 660 ATV with a million candle power spotlite.

I've found, from personal experience on two occasions, that the best defense comes in the form of a slide being racked on a .45 auto, or in being on the wrong end of a large revolver with a 7.5" barrel with a large hole in the end of it. Any sane non-drugged crazed person will back down at that point if you provide them an exit opportunity. If not, bring on the twelve of my peers that will judge me, and in the words of the immortal Mr. Zevon, send lawyers, guns, and money!

f'em all but six, save those for pall bearers