Finally, an end to the cable debate!

Whadyasay

I did the human trial and error first, and tried to back it up through testing. I then did AB tests (of sorts) after the testing, and picked inconsistently. If the cable makers have just a little technical eperience, then they're advertising some prettty heady stuff in terms of electrical values, chemical values in dialectrics, and format contruction in relation to electromagnetic properties. And who created the market which decides this price?

The guy who owns the studio is a true techy! And crazy, too. He buys at least two of everything, runs these tests after listening comparisons, and returns the one(s)) which 'proved' to be less. We're talking two of the same CD's, microphones, CD transports, etc.. Even he was shocked by the similarities between cables. We use the same equipment when he proved that my SACD of Blue Train sounded different from his identical SACD. He recorded it through the mic at a sampling rate of something like 192kHz..and he zoomed in and showed me a few tiny little peaks that were different. I asked him "Yeah, but can you hear that?" He said, "No...but it's THERE!" Again, he's crazy...one of the reasons he was so willing to set up and do this whole test. We did measure some slight difference in a pair of interconnects that he had...but it turned out to be a set that he had repaired with solder.

shack

The tech part may come after the fact. There are litterally thousands of products out there that were NEVER designed or quantified PRIOR to their inception. Something like....Wow...this works...I wonder why. And some start out as something and end up working as something entirely different. (ie: post-it-notes)

And who created the market which decides this price?

The consumer. Basic economics. Supply and demand. Marketing.

Whadyasay

Then we must STOP THE MADNESS!!:D

If one post-it stuck better than another, you could probably measure the adhesive properties between the two and quantify it. Yet....both of them stick.:p

shack

In case anyone did not know what I was referring to.....

Fascinating facts about the invention of POST-IT NOTES® by Arthur Fry and Spencer Silver in 1974.

Everyone knows what Post-it notes are: They are those great little self-stick notepapers. Most people have Post-it Notes. Most people use them. Most people love them. But Post-it Notes were not a planned product.

No one got the idea and then stayed up nights to invent it. A man named Spencer Silver was working in the 3M research laboratories in 1970 trying to find a strong adhesive. Silver developed a new adhesive, but it was even weaker than what 3M already manufactured. It stuck to objects, but could easily be lifted off. It was super weak instead of super strong.

No one knew what to do with the stuff, but Silver didn't discard it. Then one Sunday four years later, another 3M scientist named Arthur Fry was singing in the church's choir. He used markers to keep his place in the hymnal, but they kept falling out of the book. Remembering Silver's adhesive, Fry used some to coat his markers. Success! With the weak adhesive, the markers stayed in place, yet lifted off without damaging the pages. 3M began distributing Post-it Notes nationwide in 1980 -- ten years after Silver developed the super weak adhesive. Today they are one of the most popular office products available.

Whadyasay

So then comes the sticky note that has some mysterious paper formula that chemically tests the same as the 3M's. When 'yes' is written on the new sticky note, it does not turn into 'absolutely'...it still reads 'yes'. Yet this new sticky note costs 200 times that of 3M's. Users of the new sticky note claim to understand what they're reading on these notes better than on the 3M's....as if the words are actually speaking to them, advising them, helping them feel better about themselves.

Okay, I admit that was uncalled for.:p

F1nut

Here's a interesting article that BlueMDPicker posted in another thread which I feel much of applies here. It's titled "Tubes Vs. Transistors", but one could also call it, "Take That Mike And Shove It" or "A Lesson In Psychoacoustics."

http://www.milbert.com/tstxt.htm

Enjoy!

Whadyasay

Here's another interesting page pertaining to some of this:

http://www.pcavtech.com/abx/abx_data.htm

F1nut

A mind is like a parachute, they only function when open. BTW, are you related to John K.?

Whadyasay

A parachute will not function in a vacuum, though. I don't know who John K. is.

Kevinvb11

Originally posted by shack
My point was that microphones, etc. were designed to reproduce, measure sound as we understand it. Maybe we don't understand all of the intricacies of the human ear so while a microphone may be able to repoduce the sound to the best of our knowlege, we may not be able to measure what the ear can process. You can measure intense heat...but can you accurately measure the pain it causes to the skin and transmitted to the brain? You can measure an odor as to it's composition but can you measure accurately how that information is processed by the brain when smelled by the nose? Maybe we are talking about not only what the ear receives in but how it processes that info.

No, I don't think it can be measured. But if one senses a poor odor,you know it stinks. Same can be said about the guy with the mixing table infront of him. He's doing his own thing and doesn't really care if it stinks, but he knows it stinks. To him it doesn't smell that bad and he probably likes it.

Now all these recordings were done with only his ears that "stink" and yet when I change my cables I hear a sonic improvement towards something that stinks from the get go, yet I believe it smells better/no worse than before.

Anyways...

I've got a pair of monster cable IC's coming compliments of cratchfield and I will put the test to rest after a few listens. I'll have some other cables on the hook for comparison. I'll try to be as open minded as possible.

Kevin

Whadyasay

I still believe that different cables sound different, or at least that people are convinced they notice a difference. They still sound different to me...but I'm just curious if it's because I know that they are different makes of cables. Sometimes listeners get new cables that are supposed to be an upgrade over their less exotic ones, then they think the new ones are crap because they're not hearing a world of difference. This can even manifest itself into the listener thinking the new cables sound worse.

This is why I did the tests...to confirm what I WAS hearing, not what I wasn't. If I didn't think I was hearing differences, I would'nt have spent the time doing these tests. I don't see what people are getting all steamed about. All that I concluded, given the parameters, was that whatever differences in the sounds produced/transmitted by the different cables I had on hand could not be measured within (and beyond) the human capacity to hear. I'm not dismissing anyone's hearing ability or their preferences....personal references make us human. I am simply questioning the validity of charging someone a premium for something that can't be measured, given our criteria for preferring Brand A over B, which is sound.

F1nut

Originally posted by Whadyasay
I I am simply questioning the validity of charging someone a premium for something that can't be measured, given our criteria for preferring Brand A over B, which is sound.

Geez, is that all you wanted to know...LOL. Simple answer, capitalism baby, capitalism.

AsSiMiLaTeD

I see this thread's still dragging on...

BTW, I've decided to abstain from further discussion until the Polk gathering when I can prove all you beatches and naysayers wrong:o

AsSiMiLaTeD

Originally posted by Zero
The Denon / svs / rti owner to represent the believers? .. Sorry, couldnt resist .

I'm not quite sure how I should take that:D

And you can add Parasound to that list also - got the HCA 1500 recently, just haven't updated my sig in a while