Sonos Vs Bluesound.
Comments
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Hey Dan, I just had an idea. Do you have any clean, music-first amps stashed away? You likely have a B&K 200.2 S2 somewhere, don't you?
I mentioned earlier that my combo systems are pleasing listens, and they both have Parasound processors, but a couple of years ago, I set them up in HT Bypass with Musical Fidelity integrateds. One of those systems I moved to the Harman Kardon HK 990, which is my favorite 2ch piece at the moment.
I was curious as to whether one of your B&K amps might offer a different experience with the Integra as the front end? Could be too laid back, though.
With that I'll say that my 200.2 is really old and likely needs some work, so I never really got the imaging experience until Musical Fidelity. Coulda been the amp, coulda been the front end, who knows. I'm just curious as to whether you could pinpoint an area here that could refine the presentation to the point where you could hear differences between the NODE and Sonos.
To clarify "differences" here, because it hasn't been detailed really - I'm thinking you could potentially pick up nuanced stereo presentation improvements to the benefit of the NODE. The "sound" itself will likely remain very similar, though. I believe that the presentation refinement comes from cumulative improvements in the other areas like noise floor, reduced congestion and separation, so what you may be able to get from a device like the NODE over Sonos would be in the way of stereo performance characteristics, not the actual sonic signature being wildly different.
The glaringly obvious difference in sonic signature I typically pick up on is in smoothness of presentation. Some pieces just sound bright, thin, and edgy, while others have a bit more body, richness; more fluid. The latter is what I go for first and foremost.
Alternatively - and I haven't checked the manual - is there an option to connect a preamp to use the Integra's amp section?
As mentioned in your other thread, I'm a fan of Onkyo but haven't had any of their AVRs, neither Onkyo nor Integra. I'd like to check out the manual to see what it offers for music options. I can only think of one AVR I tried that had one of those music modes, and it still sucked. It was a brand known for not being with respect to music-first, though.
I disabled signatures. -
Nice post.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
The only mildly relevant detail I can provide is back in my more junior audiophile days I had a pair of LSI15's, with an Onkyo PR-SC5509 flagship processor as a pre and an Emotiva XPA-5 powering the mains and the rest of the surround speakers.
It sounded like smashed dogshit TBH. It was so bright I couldn't stand to listen to it above moderate
volume levels. Ever since then I have had a very negative view of Onkyo/Integra's suitability for music reproduction. Ended up switching back to a older less featured Denon with the same other componentry and was very happy. Things may have changed, but not sure I'd trust "mainstream" AVR brands to do justice to music reproduction. Onkyo/Integra IMO have always catered to high end HT users
2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave
2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius -
I used a marantz AVR for a preamp it didn't sound good at all.
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The notion that an AVR can compete with quality stereo components for music reproduction is ludicrous.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
But maybe that's true for Dan and his room/listening tastes/quality expectations.
That's all I was trying to say in my post, is that he absolutely needs to qualify his claims with "in my experience/room" or "in my opinion" instead of making outlandish statements like "I'm going to tell you flat out, todays AVR, pick a level are all incredibly clear detailed low noise floor and have solid amps inside. They are not like what we use to listen to decades ago. They are shielded properly and they make better preamps than most stand alone preamps." as if it's the law of the land. -
I've seen reports that long covid can affect one's hearing.
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to go that route…
But we’re all family here. 🤦♂️Alea jacta est! -
It's a wonder you can wonder.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
It's a wonder you can wonder.
It’s a wonder you thought that was worthy of your time at 02:06 AM…Alea jacta est! -
Kexi, I'm touched that you're concerned about what time it is.
XOXOPolitical Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I'm only going to say this once, do not go down that road okDan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Hey Dan, I just had an idea. Do you have any clean, music-first amps stashed away? You likely have a B&K 200.2 S2 somewhere, don't you?
I mentioned earlier that my combo systems are pleasing listens, and they both have Parasound processors, but a couple of years ago, I set them up in HT Bypass with Musical Fidelity integrateds. One of those systems I moved to the Harman Kardon HK 990, which is my favorite 2ch piece at the moment.
I was curious as to whether one of your B&K amps might offer a different experience with the Integra as the front end? Could be too laid back, though.
With that I'll say that my 200.2 is really old and likely needs some work, so I never really got the imaging experience until Musical Fidelity. Coulda been the amp, coulda been the front end, who knows. I'm just curious as to whether you could pinpoint an area here that could refine the presentation to the point where you could hear differences between the NODE and Sonos.
To clarify "differences" here, because it hasn't been detailed really - I'm thinking you could potentially pick up nuanced stereo presentation improvements to the benefit of the NODE. The "sound" itself will likely remain very similar, though. I believe that the presentation refinement comes from cumulative improvements in the other areas like noise floor, reduced congestion and separation, so what you may be able to get from a device like the NODE over Sonos would be in the way of stereo performance characteristics, not the actual sonic signature being wildly different.
The glaringly obvious difference in sonic signature I typically pick up on is in smoothness of presentation. Some pieces just sound bright, thin, and edgy, while others have a bit more body, richness; more fluid. The latter is what I go for first and foremost.
Alternatively - and I haven't checked the manual - is there an option to connect a preamp to use the Integra's amp section?
As mentioned in your other thread, I'm a fan of Onkyo but haven't had any of their AVRs, neither Onkyo nor Integra. I'd like to check out the manual to see what it offers for music options. I can only think of one AVR I tried that had one of those music modes, and it still sucked. It was a brand known for not being with respect to music-first, though.
I'm have a lot of amps including Parasound. So trying analog out of the units isn't hard. I have B&K, NAD and a Mac Preamp I can use as the front end. I easily can setup a very nice 2 channel rig and connect both Sonos and Bluesound to. What this will also test however in IF the internal DAC's are different sounding unless I connect the B&K to Streamers digital and use B&K's or NAD's internal DAC's.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
The notion that an AVR can compete with quality stereo components for music reproduction is ludicrous.
Every actual Audio engineer will disagree with your statement. But again everyone is entitled to their opinion. Factual the internal preamps on todays higher end AVR's are built and shielded and have the correct output voltage needed to drive external amps properly. This was not the case decades ago.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Name one.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
LOLWUT????? -
I haven't seen one spec that gives over 4 volts maximum output voltage from an AVR, if they even give that spec. Most preamps I've owned are 10 volts or more.
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Wow, this thread gets more and more unbelievable as it goes on. Sad, because most of the posts have been rational, educational, respectful and descriptive.
The, "absolute" comments do need to stop though. That isn't helping things at all. It just drives the conversation lower into the abyss.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Every actual Audio engineer will disagree with your statement.
Uh-huh. This is one of those absolutist statements that are not helpful at all and is completely false.
It's almost as if you are purposely trying to dig a hole you cannot get out of....(at least, that's what it seems like).
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I will.say this (and I will keep it brief).
I have had the BS Node2. Since then, I have been through a plethora of gear.
In basic terms and without getting to uber comparisons?
The BS Node2 was unlistenable for critical listening. This is no secret and is evidenced by many posts by myself within the depths of this forum. It was basically called upon for background music.
Advance to today? Now, the streaming rig is going head to head with physical music to a level that is WELL above that of an AVR or the BS Node2. In so many aspects, it's not just a night and day difference. It's on another stellar planet altogether.
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Why are we using lossy Spotify as the source when attempting to make any sort of meaningful comparisons between electronic source components?
Well it is a comparison of entry level lifestyle type products through an avr. I imagine most people with that setup would be using Spotify or airplaying Apple Music etc...
And what is wrong with using an AVR?
Nothing if you don't want to hear the difference between the two steaming products.
So what you are saying is my Integra DRX8.4 Flagship AVR isn't able to replay sound good enough to tell the differences between sources? Really ? So how high end does one need to be to be able to hear differences? Because at a $3200.00 AVR just doesn't cut in your opinion.
You do realize that a lot of folks here have a streamer, SACD player, or turntable that costs far more that that avr, right? And those items are designed to do one thing very well, whereas AVRs are designed to be a jack of all teqdes type of device. Do you really think that everyone is foolishly spending their money of that gear?Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
I think @mantis could sell a lady a ketchup popsicle at the four of July fireworks show. Sells/installs are what we does after all. He just needs to remember whos he's trying to sell it too.2ch rig: Speakers: Magnepan LRS w/Magna Riser stands Preamplifier: Parasound P5 Amplifier: Parasound A23 CDP: Pioneer DV-563A Cables: Wireworld Equinox 7 XLR ICs, Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 USB, AudioQuest Q2s, AudioQuest NRG X(preamp)
Standby: LSi9s with VR3's Fortress mods -
I'd like to add, I messed up my own joke.
But I think my point still stands. I'm out. 
2ch rig: Speakers: Magnepan LRS w/Magna Riser stands Preamplifier: Parasound P5 Amplifier: Parasound A23 CDP: Pioneer DV-563A Cables: Wireworld Equinox 7 XLR ICs, Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 USB, AudioQuest Q2s, AudioQuest NRG X(preamp)
Standby: LSi9s with VR3's Fortress mods -
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Guys this thread was never intended to argue about if my AVR is worthy or can stack up against the high end systems you guys own.
It was also never intended to argue if they sound the same better or worse as this is my experience , this is my system , these are my decisions and I was just sharing them with everyone in here and it turned into all of this.
I have no desire for this thread anymore, you guys can carry on as you will, insult my new AVR all you want,, tell my my methods are flawed, tell me the engineers I talk to are wrong, tell me that these streamers dont' sound the same or whatever you guys want to say or do.
It's all good guys, I just dont' want to put anymore time into his conversation. It's seems pointless to me so again , I'm out , you guys can continue all you like.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
