Sonos Vs Bluesound.

mantis · July 3

Hello everyone,
I have decided to revisit Bluesound. I sell Sonos and with the new app, the sheer amount of service calls that are happening directly related to the new Sonos app, I may drop them as a brand and I have been a fan since 2006.

So I had 2 Node's shipped to me and I'm gonna give it a go.

What is the general opinions good or bad about the current Bluesound products? With Bluesound I'm also strongly considering revisiting NAD as a line .

treitz3 · July 3

Get a nice DAC for it and you should be very content.....or, hook it up to a device that utilizes its DAC and accepts the input.

IMO, one of the most user friendly apps out there.

Tom

Clipdat · July 4

Get some NAD Masters Series components in house.

mantis · July 4

Hello everyone,

SETUP
- The Node is light years ahead of Sonos here. You hook it up, meaning hardwire to your network. I have a 16 port GIG switch in my Family Room Cabinet , connect Analog or Digital to your pre or receiver , connect power up and away you go. Down load the app and the app finds the player and it's ready to go.
- Sonos SUCKS here. You have to first discover the unit, then put in a PIN number, then you still have to press the damn button, then it sets up and THEN says you have to update the unit.

APPS
- Sorry to say Sonos wins here by a landslide. Apple Music is a huge deal for most people and Bluesound not having it internally sucks. If you don't use Apple Music, your basically fine, they have enough streaming apps which I'm sure you will already have an account for.

BUILT QUALITY
- Noting to write home about, both Sonos old , new and the Bluesound Node are well built, clean and feel premium.

SOUND QUALITY
- Here is where it gets difficult. I have 4 ways to play streaming music, well more than that but I'll try to keep it somewhat simple here. I have an Apple TV which I love, stream everything I need. Sonos which right now I'm pissed at as I HATE the new app and it's basically broken most of the time , Bluesound, brand new to me just installed it last night and finally the Might Integra DRX 8.4 AVR.
- All of these ways of streaming music is excellent including Sonos which when it works , it sounds awesome. I do not use the internal DAC"s on anything but the Integra which has superior DAC's to most things made.
- So sound quality compared to each other streaming the same song same streaming format, I used Spotify in it's highest quality , It's really hard to tell the difference between all of these methods.
- Now to be clear, the Bluesound and Sonos play probably 1 to 2 DB louder then the Apple TV and the internal Spotify on the Integra. Most non experienced people will favor the Sonos and Bluesound without even knowing because it plays just a bit louder. If you remove the volume advantage , you now can't tell the difference on what streamer your listening to.

INTERNAL DAC'S
- Believe it or not, this again isn't a HUGE difference. It's so small you really have to listen , pay attention to every single detail and then try to find differences. I use all Audioquest cables so no tonality difference in cables to fool you to think one device sounds better different or what have you.
- The Integra DAC's IF I had to pick one I would use would be them. Compared to the Bluesound and Sonos internals ( Apple TV does not have analog out so it's out of this race here ) really honestly pick one. If you can reliability tell each DAC apart, you have better ears than mine. I have been doing this most of my life and I was hard pressed to blindly tell which unit was playing and further more which one was better.
- I would say for some reason , the Integra internal Spotify sound quality could be considered the worse out of the bunch but when you crank it up, it levels the playing field. Low listening I felt the Bluesound and Sonos had a better overall presence . Louder volumes this wasn't a factor anymore.

So what should you take away from this?
I think streamers are basically all the same audio quality Providing , you have good network, hardwired is preferred reason is WIFI you have to deal with possible interference , distance from your Access point and it's not 100% reliable. Hardwire however is to me 100% if that is possible. I also use all Audioquest custom built and tested by me ethernet cat 6 cabling. I control the terminations, I control the length. I also have a very expensive network Managed and fully wired, setup by me. Your network can make or break your streaming experience. Everything starts there.
I think you can purchase the unit that suits your needs and run with it. You can use internal DAC's on these units and be complete happy with it. You can run external DAC's and Taylor your sound the way you like it. Your choice which makes it fun.

rooftop59 · July 4

Thanks for the review dan, it is helpful and appreciated! I am curious, though, if you have used any high end, dedicated streamers with quality separates? Like a lumin, bryston, auralic, even arcam or Cambridge? Because in my limited experience, while cheaper streamers like a squeezebox and apple tv sound very similar - especially with an AVR - high end streamers with better equipment sound clearly better. Blacker background, tighter bass, better desperation of instruments, etc. Have you noticed this with higher end gear?

mantis · July 4

rooftop59 wrote: »

Thanks for the review dan, it is helpful and appreciated! I am curious, though, if you have used any high end, dedicated streamers with quality separates? Like a lumin, bryston, auralic, even arcam or Cambridge? Because in my limited experience, while cheaper streamers like a squeezebox and apple tv sound very similar - especially with an AVR - high end streamers with better equipment sound clearly better. Blacker background, tighter bass, better desperation of instruments, etc. Have you noticed this with higher end gear?

From my experience with higher end gear, there is still very little difference in streamers. It kinda sucks honestly as you would think if you where using a 2k player like the Sony which I had both versions and connected to mid and high end gear, there was little to no difference.

It seems DAC's play a bigger roll in sound quality but when you have a proper DAC doing it's job correctly , again hard pressed to tell the difference.

I could be getting old , who knows but I have heard very small differences but again they are not real noticeable unless you study the song, play it back like 10 times on each unit and then pull at straws to hear differences. It's tuff man.

treitz3 · July 4

Respectfully, that does not mimic experiences of a vast amount of folks out there. The streamers may sound identical to you, same with the DAC's but that is simply not the case.

All one would need to listen to in order to hear or feel the difference is about 20 seconds or less of something audible playing. No need at all to, "study" a song. None at all.

Tom

mantis · July 5

treitz3 wrote: »

Respectfully, that does not mimic experiences of a vast amount of folks out there. The streamers may sound identical to you, same with the DAC's but that is simply not the case.

All one would need to listen to in order to hear or feel the difference is about 20 seconds or less of something audible playing. No need at all to, "study" a song. None at all.

Tom

That's fine , I was just stating honest findings.

pearsall001 · July 5

I still have SONOS which I believe to be
around 15yrs old now & still works like a charm using the original app, I can't use the new app because my setup won't recognize it. Which is fine by me after reading all the horror stories about their new app.

I do use an external DAC which is far superior to both their internal DAC's. Both units are hard wired.

I also have a Bluesound NODE which also is fantastic. I never used the SONOS or Bluesound apps, I go straight to Tidal & Spotify & use their apps. I figured if the SONOS ain't broke I might as well keep it.

The newer MOVE speaker from SONOS works on both the old & new apps. My wife loves it & takes it everywhere especially when she does gardening. I tried to get her to use Spotify but to no avail. She simply says...Alexa play country music or will name a particular artist & there you go.

msg · July 5

Great info and review, Dan.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was this also partly to see whether you could find something else affordable, easy to use, and sound quality to at least match the Sonos as a possible replacement for customers or new installs?

While I agree that most of us are a bit pickier, your clients are probably more about living space audio, convenient access, and good sound. Good sound meaning, sounds great to most people but not necessarily along the lines of what 2ch enthusiasts would go for?

I'm not surprised by your comparison results. Similar enough as currently set up out of the box, and with the Integra"s streamer being the worst.

Emlyn · July 5

Most people just want to have access to millions of songs using standard devices anywhere they are that are easy to use and reliable. And the cheaper the better.

I was in a WalMart the other day and browsed through their media section. They're still mainly selling DVDs in store!

stangman67 · July 5

Love me my Sonos stuff, also liked Bluesound when I had it, don’t think there’s much in it for more lifestyle oriented products. Sonos has the advantage of name recognition over BS IMO for buyers

mantis · July 5

msg wrote: »

Great info and review, Dan.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was this also partly to see whether you could find something else affordable, easy to use, and sound quality to at least match the Sonos as a possible replacement for customers or new installs?

While I agree that most of us are a bit pickier, your clients are probably more about living space audio, convenient access, and good sound. Good sound meaning, sounds great to most people but not necessarily along the lines of what 2ch enthusiasts would go for?

I'm not surprised by your comparison results. Similar enough as currently set up out of the box, and with the Integra"s streamer being the worst.

Thanks,
I see no reason to fluff anything or get excited where excitement doesn't exist. The New Integra DRX8.4 is one product I'll be adding to my review which is very exciting. The streamers however, such little differences I couldn't tell you one was actually better than the other.

What I will do is use a external amp and use Sonos and the Bluesound as a dedicted preamp and see which one has better DAC's built in for those who plan on using them. I don't use them but easily could IF I used external amps for around the house music. I have 10 total zones.

Yes I have my own business and I'm really pissed at Sonos right now. I'm not completely fine with changing the entire structure of how an app works especially with as many clients I have running Sonos system and are pissed their stuff isn't working well now. Makes me look bad on some levels. So testing our Bluesound is necessary and I'm also going to bring in Autonomic , I used them in the past and they are remarkable, AUDIOPHILE level stuff.

stangman67 · July 5

May I ask what the app/system issues are? I have two Sonos setups in my house and the transition to the new app has been seamless.

Beam and Sub downstairs.

Arc, Sub, one Sls for surrounds in the attic

mantis · July 5

stangman67 wrote: »

May I ask what the app/system issues are? I have two Sonos setups in my house and the transition to the new app has been seamless.

Beam and Sub downstairs.

Arc, Sub, one Sls for surrounds in the attic

There are several issues with the new app. Since the beginning , systems have fully functioned , stopped. I'll give you just a few issues I ran into .
1- Music selection. If you decide you want to play a song , you pick it and try to play it in a room. The system decides that a certain room , the music always starts there and then you have to group the room you actually want to listen in. For instance, My Office. I work in here a lot and I like to put music on. This room has Floor Standing speakers and a Sonos amp in my basement in a Mid Atlantic Rack hardwired to a managed switch . I use the app to start a playlist and maybe I want to start at song 2. Well the Sonos app decides it's a good idea to have my Gym play the song I want and NOT my Office. I have to go into grouping, pick the Gym, pick my office Group them together, then break the Group and leave the Gym out of my grouping..
This might work sometimes and others it doesn't ,
2- If my phone rings and I need to MUTE the music, I press mute on the Sonos app and the music continues to play. Maybe 20 seconds later it mutes. I have to leave my Office and go into another room to take my call, its totally annoying.
3- I might not get the music I asked for. weeks ago before the last 4 updates on this new app, I would ask it to play the Beatles, it decides not to play the Beatles and then proceeds to play Bruce Springsteen. It's so off the wall what it does or lack there of, I want to rip it all out and start over.
I have been using Sonos since 2006, I trained on it before anyone did, I installed it back then and I still do up until this new app.

That might change IF blue sound or Autonomic pans out to my liking OR Sonos fixes these bugs.

Oh I wanted to tell you one other very fine decision Sonos made. If you have local music on a hard drive or computer, good luck trying to play it anymore. It doesn't

mantis · July 5

UPDATE*
OK,
so today was insanely hot outside, went grocery shopping, went to the gym and did some power washing on the front of the house. To hot to be out there anymore, took a shower and I wanted to dig further into Bluesound and Sonos even though I have a slight older Sonos unit, I could easily open a brand new one BUT after my findings I don't think I have to.

So I started just playing song after song to see IF I could hear differences between the 2.
First off, one thing I'm thinking some of you who claim to have compared music streamers, I'm wondering if you took away as many variables as you can like Volume Matching. I used a SPL meter to get an average output. If one player is louder then the other, that could swing your opinion that that one is better.
What about player setting? Are you running LOUDNESS or any other enhancement? Are you EQ'ing the player? again something to consider when A B testing against each other
What are you using for speakers and amps? are you sitting in the same seat ? The list goes on what you can do to make sure IF you are hearing anything different , you can point directly to those differences.

So after a few hours messing around, I locked in on one song, I found some key claps, deep bass and a clear vocal track with not a lot of other things going on it the songs. LORDE Royals which is NOT a song I typical do this tests with BUT when I was switching back and forth between Sonos and Bluesound which I had about 1/2 second difference in the sound start, so I was able to A B them very quickly, I thought I heard a slight better CLAP on the BLUESOUND over the SONOS. I went into the SONOS settings and found LOUDNESS OFF and when I engaged this setting and went back to my AB comparison, now the 2 where exactly the same.

The Dynamics changes with LOUDNESS ON OR OFF on the Sonos Connect. it changes the way any song can sound and with it off, it's noticeable.

I'm gonna be straight with you guys , There is no difference in overall audio quality between Sonos and Bluesound. Bluesound is supposed to be Superior to Sonos sound quality and it's sold as an audiophile product. It's supposed to be the one you want when sound quality is critical. BUT guess what? I can't tell any differences between the 2.

I have a Flagship AVR from Integra with a brand new amp technology rated to give me 150 watts of awesome power especially when just running 2 channel.
I have Focal Speakers which are very dynamic alive and super detailed.
I use all Audioquest cabling
I have a dedicated 20 amp circuit with absolutely no noise or anything else on that circuit.
I use a Audioquest High end Outlet, I use to have a PS Audio Powerport now I have the Audioquest model.
I totally balanced the volume so no player had any DB advantages

I did my best to hear differences and unlike many CD players I have owned where I can hear differences in like 3 seconds, this was a huge challenge and I chalk it up to they are both excellent music streamers and when you use an External DAC, with players this close , you can't tell any differences at all.

Good luck trying, I don't know how I could make my conditions any better but I even just used Spotify on both in it's highest quality and here I am.

invalid · July 7

You can't accurately level match with an SPL meter.

mantis · July 7

invalid wrote: »

You can't accurately level match with an SPL meter.

Ok , then how do you suggest getting the levels as close to the same as possible?

PSOVLSK · July 7

invalid wrote: »

You can't accurately level match with an SPL meter.

Not doubting what you’re saying, but, and I mean this respectfully, how is an SPL meter inaccurate in this application? And as Dan asked, what’s a more accurate way? Thanks!

treitz3 · July 7

I am not saying that he is or is not correct. It depends on whether or not you are doing it by a phone app or a professional A/C weighting recorder/mic. The latter, I don't see any reason why that would be controversial. The former? I do.

Tom

mantis · July 7

I have several SPL meters including the Original Radio Shack Analog and a Digital version.
For me I never rely on the SPL apps, I tested them and they are not accurate.

invalid · July 7

You have to measure the voltage output at the amp output on one channel using a multimeter with a test tone. SPL meters can be between 1-2db inaccurate. Which means you would have to use the volume control from the streamers app.

treitz3 · July 7

Or, one could just listen to...oh, nevermind. Not worth my time.

They sound the same. All of them. 🤪

Tom

invalid · July 7

I know I heard a difference between the two, when we compared them on a friend's system, and the Sonos was returned.

Clipdat · July 8

Why are we using lossy Spotify as the source when attempting to make any sort of meaningful comparisons between electronic source components?

rooftop59 · July 8

Clipdat wrote: »

Why are we using lossy Spotify as the source when attempting to make any sort of meaningful comparisons between electronic source components?

Well it is a comparison of entry level lifestyle type products through an avr. I imagine most people with that setup would be using Spotify or airplaying Apple Music etc...

Clipdat · July 8

Garbage in garbage out. Is anyone surprised that two competent DACs sound the same when playing back 320kbps mp3 through an AVR? Even one with "150 watts of awesome power especially when just running 2 channel"...

msg · July 8

Clipdat wrote: »

Why are we using lossy Spotify as the source when attempting to make any sort of meaningful comparisons between electronic source components?

I know, we should be using .mp3s.

Clipdat · July 8

Now you're learning.

mantis · July 8

Clipdat wrote: »

Why are we using lossy Spotify as the source when attempting to make any sort of meaningful comparisons between electronic source components?

Because they were the 2 things that where available to test stream wise.

mantis · July 8

rooftop59 wrote: »

Clipdat wrote: »

Why are we using lossy Spotify as the source when attempting to make any sort of meaningful comparisons between electronic source components?

Well it is a comparison of entry level lifestyle type products through an avr. I imagine most people with that setup would be using Spotify or airplaying Apple Music etc...

And what is wrong with using an AVR?

Sonos Vs Bluesound.

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