The Official Club Polk - Snake River Power Cord Demo

heiney9

pitdogg2 wrote: »

We know how it is once folks get to be your age......

😉

Speak up boy...........I can't hear you!

dromunds

Fer fox sake, I just saw this thread. Is it too late? I’m not all that far from Heiney9, perhaps I could be added near him? If not too late I can get you the necessary info pronto. Thanks. Don

treitz3

Merry Christmas, Don!

You are in. Just send me your information please. Thanks.

Tom

dromunds

Will do, thanks!

VR3

Is there a full length review yet

treitz3

Yeah, mine. In depth.

Oh.....you mean by the demo program? I gotcha' now...

Well, it has only been a week since they got them and there is this little thing called "Christmas" that was in the mix.

Initial thoughts are welcome but not required at this moment in time. (Even though we all know full well that you expect a full review before something is even delivered).



Tom

VR3

Eh.. 24 hour 10 page essay, peer reviewed and proof read expected😜

Looking forwards to the thoughts

marvda1

Upon first listen, there was an increase in soundstage size and some diffused imagery with bloated bass. The highs were also somewhat recessed and muted.
I was of the thought that this was caused by the need for burn in, to the point I was going to ask Tom for another week to see if this clears up (along with the holidays mixed in). For the most part it has corrected itself.
I had a buddy over who is no audiophile, notice the depth of soundstage and blackness of background, although that may be due to my new Puritan PSM156 power conditioner. I will finish up this week and send her on her way.

displayname

I hung out with Marvin yesterday and we spent a bunch of time listening to tracks back to back using different power cables, mostly changing the power cable on the DAC.

The snake river wasn't to my taste, but it has a driving low end with plenty of impact. It also really brings any sort of background sound forward in the mix. Great if you like digging up the details hidden in a track, but in my opinion it was with the trade off of some of the vocal clarity and tone.

Just a quick reaction from a few tests over a few hours. Certainly not a long term review, but figured I'd share!

treitz3

Since we it takes about 4 days for a PC (IMO/IME) to meld properly with the system, instantaneous swapping will yield differing results.

Joey and Marvin, let's plan on shipping the cables onto the next person on the 2nd or 3rd. This will make up some of the time lost over the holidays.

Marvin, if you want to keep the goodies, I can ship you some of mine. I have quite a bit of them at this point. Please send them on (except the candy bar....that's y'all's treat for being first), so that other folks know what comes in the package.

Thanks guys.

Tom

displayname

treitz3 wrote: »

Since we it takes about 4 days for a PC (IMO/IME) to meld properly with the system, instantaneous swapping will yield differing results.

Joey and Marvin, let's plan on shipping the cables onto the next person on the 2nd or 3rd. This will make up some of the time lost over the holidays.

Marvin, if you want to keep the goodies, I can ship you some of mine. I have quite a bit of them at this point. Please send them on (except the candy bar....that's y'all's treat for being first), so that other folks know what comes in the package.

Thanks guys.

Tom

I haven’t heard of a 4 day “melding” period. Do you feel that’s for all power cables, or is more susceptible to some (like the SR)?

I never even thought about that, but I guess it’s easy enough to test.

treitz3

displayname wrote: »

I haven’t heard of a 4 day “melding” period. Do you feel that’s for all power cables, or is more susceptible to some (like the SR)?

Hi, Willy and good afternoon to ya'. There are many variables at play with this question. Consideration(s) would be clean power/signal, the resolution of one's system, whether or not it is a full range system, the component in which the PC is plugged into and whether or not the PC has truly been burnt in all of the way.

I usually find the first three hours are all over the place on a plethora of different criteria that one would listen for. After that, the electrons start flowing again correctly.....or "something happens" within the cable/outlet/component to where things just sound better than when you first plug it in.

Then, after about 3 days, things truly settle (provided the PC is burnt in) and you get a truer "portrait", if you will" of what the PC can really do. Some systems and some PC's are a little bit more sensitive than others.

Gary Koh (Owner of Genesis loudspeakers) and I were having a discussion years back about this very phenomenon. He explained it something like this - (Very shortened version and not a direct quote)

When you take a PC and unplug it, you have now just disturbed the electron flow. It takes time to settle back into the proper flow after plugging it back in. If you were to drop the PC, the time would increase. This is somewhat like taking a screwdriver and hitting it at the tip with a hammer. The screwdriver looks the same, screws and unscrews the same but the magnetic properties have now changed. Long story short, one could basically think of the same thing with PC's.

Yeah, it'll still give you sound, no doubt, but it may take a while for the electrons to start flowing in their path again. Cryogenically treated cables have already altered the grains/grain pattern at the molecule level for better flow but I still have observed in my system that the very best sound out of all of my PC's in the most critical of locations, usually takes about 4 days to sound their best and for everything to truly come into fruition.

For this reason, I don't evaluate a PC until around the 4 day mark. These cables are packed pretty well but there is no telling how much the brown apes threw the package, dropped it or flung it up onto a shelf.

If you remember (or have read yet) my review of the custom metalurgy blend Jonny made for me, I did not like it at first and I thought I had made a mistake. After about 4 or so hours, I was enthused at what I was hearing. After around day 4? I was in heaven and this is the exact blend I will get from now on for my rig. In a word? Perfect.

With that said, there are some PC's I have that I don't recall ever hearing any change after plugging them in. The Shunyata Venom, the PS Audio PC's and some others that I have used throughout the years. The PC's that I got from Marvin a couple of months ago did. Their current location is powering both subs. That was the best spot I could find for them and they worked like a charm....but even they changed over time, after install on the subs....so I didn't adjust the subs until after around 4 days or so had passed by.

To sum your question up really short-like? It depends. Too many variables in the equation to say definitively one way or another.

Tom

displayname

Thanks Tom, really great breakdown and I appreciate the detailed response.

I’ll be curious to hear what others think of the PC once they can get long run times with them.

bcwsrt

Who’s next on the list?

treitz3

@HzTweaker for the Amplifier PC

and *cue drumroll*

@erniejade for the component PC -

Tom

bcwsrt

So, just checking ... @marvda1 / @displayname have the component PC (since they reference using it on a DAC), correct? I may have overlooked it, but I didn't see that distinction being made in their comments.

treitz3

Correct. Joey is currently trying out the "Amp Series" PC.

Tom

HzTweaker

treitz3 wrote: »

@HzTweaker for the Amplifier PC

and *cue drumroll*

@erniejade for the component PC -

Tom

Any idea when I should expect to receive this cable? I work tomorrow but I'm off the following three days. PM me if you need to know more scheduling details. Thanks

treitz3

Unfortunately, they won't get to you that soon.

The cables aren't expected to be shipped out until after the New Year. The 2nd or the 3rd. You are getting the PC from Joey. Maybe reach out to him and see what shipping company you both prefer? There is no requirement to use a certain shipping company. Whichever one y'all choose is good, just so long as they are shipped insured.

I would expect a 2-3 day delivery window from the day it was shipped.

Also, anyone who would like to purchase said cable instead of sending it on is more than welcome to do so. It will put a slight delay on the program, as a new cable would have to be built and burned in but that option is still there for those who may not be willing to part with them.

Tom

jdjohn

treitz3 wrote: »

Gary Koh (Owner of Genesis loudspeakers) and I were having a discussion years back about this very phenomenon. He explained it something like this - (Very shortened version and not a direct quote)

When you take a PC and unplug it, you have now just disturbed the electron flow. It takes time to settle back into the proper flow after plugging it back in. If you were to drop the PC, the time would increase. This is somewhat like taking a screwdriver and hitting it at the tip with a hammer. The screwdriver looks the same, screws and unscrews the same but the magnetic properties have now changed. Long story short, one could basically think of the same thing with PC's.

Yeah, it'll still give you sound, no doubt, but it may take a while for the electrons to start flowing in their path again. Cryogenically treated cables have already altered the grains/grain pattern at the molecule level for better flow but I still have observed in my system that the very best sound out of all of my PC's in the most critical of locations, usually takes about 4 days to sound their best and for everything to truly come into fruition.

Hi Tom, and early Happy New Year.

I have a little nit to pick regarding the term 'electron flow'. The electrons don't actually flow...at least, not very fast...at all. Instead, it's the electrical charge that flows via the electrons. The electrons become 'excited', and sort of wiggle-in-place as they allow the electrical charge to pass through them. They don't literally move quickly up-and-down the wires like water through a pipe.

Having said that, there is a bit of 'drift velocity' occurring with electrons in a conductor. Electricity itself moves (basically) at the speed of light in a conductor, but electrons move much, much slower up-and-down a conductor. There is a formula to calculate it, incorporating voltage, amps, and conductor material and diameter, but suffice it to say the result is measured in micrometers/microns per second. The example I saw, which is basically for a light bulb being powered through a 2mm solid-core copper conductor, resulted in a drift velocity of about 1.4mm per minute - not exactly a fast flow. I honestly don't know if stranded wire would make a difference, nor if the rate would increase for gold or silver being in the mix.

Obviously, over the course of a day, the length of that 'drift' can add up. By my calculations, and converting to inches, the example I provided comes to about 79 inches over a 24hr period. That's about 2 meters. If this process repeats itself each day, it could explain some of what you're talking about. I can't really say, but wanted to put it out there, and hopefully quantify 'electron flow' a little better.

By the way, the cryo treatment could increase the length of the drift, since it has a tighter crystalline/grain structure.

Joey_V

Whoever is next for the Amp power cable - let me know.
Thx
JV

erniejade

treitz3 wrote: »

@HzTweaker for the Amplifier PC

and *cue drumroll*

@erniejade for the component PC -

Tom

I will be gone from January 6-14th just in case it falls into that time frame.

Joey_V

Joey V's Review of the Snake River Signature Amp Power Cable:

Introduction:
The package came in a brown box, with Snake River paper tape along all sides. I was careful to use a blade to open as I was not sure fit he cable was right under. After opening up one flap, I noted that there was bubble wrap. Under the bubble wrap was another box. This time, it was the actual product box. Opening up the product box - another layer of bubble wrap. The cables came in a small cloth bag. To the side, is a bunch of little goodies. I kept the candy bar. Inside the small cloth bag are 2 booklets, one about the company, and the other about the cables with a page for keeping a log of the cables you own in case of warranty or service purposes.

The Actual Cable:
The actual cable came in plastic shrink wrapped. The cool thing was that the texture of the bag reminded me of what it would feel like if holding a snake or viper. Had the feel of scales. Not sure if this was on purpose, but it was cool. Once you poke a hole into it, it makes it easy to open. A gush of air. Then the cables are free.

The cable looks very pretty on first glance. There is the appearance of red snake skin. The inlet into the IEC C13 is clear. It has gold metals so it gives it a gold glow. Pretty cool. A little different from my clear/silver appearing Audioquest WEL power cords. The only I would probably ding them on the ferrite shields, the way the heat shrinked snake skin is laid on, honestly if I were building it and making it all about the little details and quality, I would probably align the heat shrink so it looks symmetrical from either side where the cable runs in and out of. Small detail, but I couldn't help myself with this though especially since the line "We believe true quality cannot be mass built" is plastered all over the boxes and booklets.

The System:
Since I had the power cable, I felt like it would be best used on an amplifier. I then hem and hawed. I wasn't sure if I could use it at the amplifier isolation transformer input... as the Boulder is hooked to that. But I felt like that would be one removed from amplification. So then I thought maybe I would use the secondary system with the BW802D4 and plug it into the amplifier there... but then I wasn't as familiar with the system as I just received the speakers a few days ago.

So it was decided I needed to deploy the Snake River Signature Cord into the Classe Delta Stereo, which I have as a secondary amplifier to the Boulder in the main system. I also wanted to have the Snake River compared to other cords I had to allow for a better reference point and to be able to make a more meaningful discussion and review. The problem was that the Classe is a good 6 feet from the outlet or Torus RM20. Therefore, I had to hoist it about a couple feet off the ground and move it on top of the Boulder amplifier and let it rest on a moving blanket there. What a back breaker.

Now, on the Boulder amp, the Classe was plugged into action.

Source: Bluesound Node X with Linear Power Supply Modification Outboard
Source DAC: Emm Labs Dac 2x via coax
Interconnect from Emm to ARC: Wireworld Platinum 7 XLR
Linestage: Audio Research Reference 10 preamp
Interconnect from ARC to Classe: 6m Audioquest Wild (1 down from WEL)
Amplifier: Classe Delta Stereo, current gen, build Feb 2022
Speaker Wire: Audioquest Wel 8ft banana/banana
Speaker: Magico M2

Comparisons:
1. Standard 15 amp cable.
2. Classe Delta stock power cable, with furutech components
3. Audioquest NRG10 power cable
4. Audioquest WEL power cable

Preamble:
So, I kicked off the review listening session at around 5am, I finished around 11am. I must've fallen asleep a couple times. Usually I get most of my listening in the middle of the night after I wake up from sleep... everyone is still asleep, the power is clean, the house is quiet, and I just make my way into my lair and play. Usually on the weekends or holidays, everyone is still asleep well into 12 noon, so I'm usually safe.

Sound:
Started off with the Classe Delta stock power cord. I have watched videos of the Classe building the Delta series. This series is a notch or two better than my previous Classe M600 mono blocks. More class A power, better components, and many uses of furutech parts. The power cord is upgraded, it is braided, thick, and has furutech inlets and plugs. The idea was that they wanted to get the power cord upgraded so it would be less of an impetus to change unless the person was crazier than the norm.

Well that's me.

Anyway, Classe Delta Stock cord - I ran through a few songs, but mostly of one that I had been listening to more recently. I listen for imaging first and foremost. Then I listen for bass, background, and musicality. With the Classe Stock Cord - the imaging of the singer was quite good. Standard fare at about 3 to 6 feet, of reverberating aural space in the middle, just about the plane of the speakers. With my eyes closed, I can appreciate the nuances and delicacy of the singer, I can draw a line around the perimeter and edges of the image. The background singers seem to be a distance away, and there seems to be sufficient and believable space between the instruments. Perhaps a little breathy.... or could be digital glare. I did not want to deploy the turntables for this because that would make a LOT of trips to readjust the stylus on the track, etc.... so I stuck with digital.

In went the Snake River. Hmm... Slightly less breathy... around the singer. Maybe a bit denser in image. Seems a little truncated in size vertically. As if the edges of the perimeter of the image was trimmed just slightly. The background is there... I can't feel that the spacing is any different. Wait.... busy section coming up. Ah... singer is held solid in front of the busy section. No problems there. Hmm... bass hits. A little heavy there. Let me run that back. Yes... a little heavy there. Musical... tapping my toes type. Wait.... end of track. Let's go back to the other cord.

Classe Stock Cord - ok, yes, a little breathiness noted around the singer. Could be also defined as a little hazy or less of a definition on the ghostly apparition. The busy section... hmm... the singer image can get lost a little. Almost as if it's transparent in color and you can see the rear stage bleed through it. Bass hitting... just right. Ok let's move on.

Joey_V

Amazon cord - pressing play. Hmm... definitely still sounds good. And this is free. Wait... singer seems way more breathy. Must be artifact. Image is definitely flatter and less dense significantly. Can see through on busy passages. Bass... light. Still listenable especially when the rest of the system is high end.... but definitely less tight imaging, perimeter is hazy, image saturation is light, but overall... still ok. Back to other cords...

Snake River. Ok, there's the proper image. The singer is denser. The breathiness is replaced with more realistic life. I can still hear the breath... but it's not overdone. The perimeter of the imaging is better. Almost like someone drew a margin or put a perimeter fence. The saturation is way better, cannot see through during the busy passages. The bass... perhaps this is more correct, definitely a couple db higher in mid bass I feel. Listening through... no flaws. I think this is why it can be defined as a little "vocalist tucked in"... you lose some of that breathy flare that it sounds a little recessed. Let me plug in the AQs....

AQ NRG10. This is a classic and value conscious cord. Yes, the breathiness is not there in as much as it was on the Classe stock or the amazon cord. This must be the more correct presentation. To not have the singer as breathy or hazy. The imaging is tight. The bass is maybe a hair below that of the Snake River Signature. I think the Snake River tucks in the vocalist a little comparatively, but overall, I think they are pretty close.

AQ WEL. Ok, so for sure the excess breathiness is an artifact, the WEL demonstrates nearly none of that. The image is dense and the singer and each instrument displayed is more saturated in color and tone. The layering is excellent, but not the best I have heard rendered but it must be the track selection. The bass is taut but seems a little more defined than on the Snake River. Go back...

Snake River. Alright, we give up a little density for a little more life to the singer, the breath is there, but not overly so. There is enough density to follow the singer image even during busy passages. There is more than enough bass - probably just a preference or flavor. I don't think you can be wrong if you prefer this type of bass presentation. It seems musical enough for me, I would listen for long stretches on the Snake River.

Conclusion:
I didn't bother to look at pricing of the Snake River Signature. I merely opened up the box, took mental notes of what I got, and how I felt holding the cables. I notated my initial impressions and kept going. I wish I could've used the Boulder, but the connector is completely different. The Boulder, I have most time logged with so it is the most stable reference I have. But that's ok.

The rest of the system was something I was still very familiar with. The Classe Delta, being one of my newest acquisitions, have not had too much playing time in the system so it was rightfully time to get it to stretch it's legs. Plus with all the cable switching, turning the system on and off... it was better to put stress on the Classe than the Boulder, so I felt good about that.

The Snake River Signature AC Amp Power cord definitely LOOKS the part. I do like the snake skin appearance, it has a nice overall feel. The braid on the cord looks good, the connectors feel commensurate to a high end (not stratospheric) cable. The ferrite plugs... in the middle of the cable x2, I wish were better dressed. The end of the cabling are transparent, I liked the gold hue.

For the sound, I can describe it as very good compared to others. You retain some life in the human voices, you still get some of that breathy artifact/recording data, but you gain some perimeter control of the imaging of the solo instrument. I do feel like the voice gets tucked in a little, but if you listen closely and a/b/c/d it compared to other cables of similar over/under quality/cost, you will notice that while it is tucked in, it's still in the proper stage location and this tucked in behavior is likely a result of the excess artifact being deleted from the reproduction. The rear background music does seem to encroach on the front stage because the front stage recesses a little as artifact seems to be deleted. But that said, I thought it was still sufficient as it did feel like the individual units of reproduction were isolated and there was more dead space between them. I think the bass is plentiful, usually I find this to be function of gauge or usable surface area of the cord, rather than actual metallurgy. Not making highlight of the individual attributes, overall, I think the sound was rather enjoyable. I felt like the music was coming through. I did not feel harshness to the sound, and I was enjoying my time with the Snake River cables. I think that's all you can ask for in a power cord.

Overall, I am glad I got to hear it. I did think about how it would sound on the Boulder rather than the Boulder stock cord... I am sure I have some performance to ring out of the system as now I feel like I need to address the Boulder stock cord. AQ or Snake River or other... I think either or would improve the stock cable I have on my reference amp.

Thanks Tom for letting me have the cord for a bit!

Joey_V

Deluge of pictures:

marvda1

erniejade wrote: »

treitz3 wrote: »

@HzTweaker for the Amplifier PC

and *cue drumroll*

@erniejade for the component PC -

Tom

I will be gone from January 6-14th just in case it falls into that time frame.

Want me to hold onto it until you get back?
Should we ship it to the next person?

Joey_V

Whoever is next for me, it’s all boxed up. I need your address. Otherwise I’m out of pocket for Atleast a week starting 1/2/2024.

marvda1

Tom should send you the info.

treitz3

@newbie308 or @dromunds ? Please chime in. Whoever wants it first and posts about it? You are next.

Tom

dromunds

Newbie308 you may have the honors if you’d like.