New Car Sales

heiney9

Anyone in and around the new car sales environment? Thinking about trading in my GTI for a new GTI. Rates are up and inventory is down. I'm looking at a 2023 - 40th Anniversary Edition GTI. A fairly rare bird in that only 1500 are being made.

Equity seems to be very high for my 2017 w/31K miles.

I have no idea what the new "norm" is for buying a car or if because of higher interest rates if cars aren't moving like they were 9 months to a year ago.

I had a friend buy a Mazda CX 5 about about a year ago. They were told by 2-3 dealers the price was over MSRP by about $800 and that was the price, no negotiation.

They needed a car so they had no choice as it seemed many popular models were going for over MSRP.

Is it still the same today? Or is there room to negotiate?

I'm really looking for insight from someone in the biz as to what to expect so I'm prepared going in. Just what the general trend is at the moment.

KBB and Edmunds both show my 2017 w/ 31K miles trade in to be between $18,500 to $20,300 for a range. I was realistic about condition. I paid $27K - 6 years ago. That's some crazy equity compared to other periods of time I've been looking for a car.

Anyway, I'm kind of rambling here........so I'm hoping to get some input.

H9

txcoastal1

If you have a regular salesman you use, that is the route to go. If not you are at the mercy paying over MSRP.
3/4 ton diesel trucks are $5-15k over MSRP. I'm shopping now, not to trade in, we just need another truck on the road.

You are shopping a special order item so you will likely be paying well over MSRP.

VR3

6 months ago the dealership I have my oil changed at had no new vehicles.

A few days ago I was there 75% of their inventory was new vehicles

Take that for what it's worth

Emlyn

Prices are coming down for new as supply goes up and interest rates have increased. Dealers have always made money in the finance department so if they're not selling they're not making money. Sales staff are getting back to being the leg humpers they used to be when someone makes an inquiry because they have to chase business again. I was offered $7K off sticker on a new Audi the other day but I've bought several from the dealer.

Golf Rs were being marked up $15K this time last year and there were one or two around my area. Now there are ten within 20 miles of me and the markup is $5K. There's probably movement down from that from what I hear.

The Golf GTi 40th is more common. Some have a $2K markup listed but most don't have anything other than MSRP. My credit union's reporting recent local sales right around MSRP or maybe around $400 off.

FWIW, in the market today KBB and Edmunds used car trade in prices may not be a reliable indicator of what to expect to receive. Usually expect "the sales manager" to knock off about $3K from what they say but do ask for what they say as a starting point.

heiney9

Emlyn wrote: »

Prices are coming down for new as supply goes up and interest rates have increased. Dealers have always made money in the finance department so if they're not selling they're not making money. Sales staff are getting back to being the leg humpers they used to be when someone makes an inquiry because they have to chase business again. I was offered $7K off sticker on a new Audi the other day but I've bought several from the dealer.

Golf Rs were being marked up $15K this time last year and there were one or two around my area. Now there are ten within 20 miles of me and the markup is $5K. There's probably movement down from that from what I hear.

The Golf GTi 40th is more common. Some have a $2K markup listed but most don't have anything other than MSRP. My credit union's reporting recent local sales right around MSRP or maybe around $400 off.

FWIW, in the market today KBB and Edmunds used car trade in prices may not be a reliable indicator of what to expect to receive. Usually expect "the sales manager" to knock off about $3K from what they say but do ask for what they say as a starting point.

All the 40th Ed are listed at MSRP close by, but none actually have them on the lot. They are all intransit, but they don't say that of course until you contact them. One dealer has the "R" for $10K over MSRP. My other issue is I only want RED. I don't car for the other colors enough.

This is sort of an impulse purchase and if they dick me around too much, I'll just walk. Or I'll use cash for the amount of my trade and sell it privately if they low ball me too much. My interest is piqued because of the equity I still have in my used GTI. I'd rather take advantage now while the market is higher than normal for low mileage, cream puff used cars.

H9

Emlyn

You'd probably have to and be better off putting in an order for a red one. Only 1 in 10 listed within 20 miles of me is red. Most are white. The dealers may make noises about how rare the red version is, but they'd likely find one fairly soon anyway if they have a deal to close.

nooshinjohn

Be glad you are not trying to get a Demon 170... there are dealers at 200k over on them.

sucks2beme

Everything I've seen and heard about new cars lately hasn't been
good. Prices are up and quality is DOWN. The industry is being forced
Into the green mold. Ev isn't ready for prime time, and with the phasing
Out of gas, they really aren't trying very hard. A whole lot of the big auto
makers aren't coming out that transition alive. I'm driving my cars into
the ground.

GlennDog

heiney9 wrote: »

I don't care for the other colors enough.

This is sort of an impulse purchase and if they dick me around too much, I'll just walk.

H9

I couldn’t agree more… and yet, the dealer acts like they’re doing me a favor…


As a Harley enthusiast I gotta say I hate Black, vivid Black, dark brown, dark blue, dark green, dark red, Dark Dark yada yada yada. HD is finally offering some kit in cool colors, IMHO.

What caught my eye a while ago was the Road King in Industrial Yellow but then the MoCo just released the Highway King in Hi-Fi Magenta…

Oh, baby!

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/road-king-special.html



https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/electra-glide-highway-king.html



So . . . Long story short, I’ve been to two different dealerships and asked for trade in value. Both come up 30 to 40% less than KBB or cranes (I think)

my trade-in is a HD street glide special in hard custom candy Gold Flake w/ 7000 miles, pristine condition


I hate “the dance” that some dealers want to partake in … let’s just do the deal! No Eff’n ‘round!

Emlyn

^^^^ Those look great! Especially the magenta.

GlennDog

the MoCo is replicating styles from days gone bye . . . so far the classics are just head turners. Much like my Road King Classic in Glacier White Pearl

i.e. “clothes make the man”

Anywho, good luck H9

Milito

Your car with the miles being that low is a good retail unit for the dealership if it's in good shape. That's in your favor as I'm sure the used car manager would want it. He doesn't see 2017's with 31,000 miles like that very often if at all.

The GTI you want being a limited edition model hurts your bargaining power some. Decide what you want to pay and then how much you'll go above that and make them an offer. The dealers in my area are showing more stock than I have seen since CoVid hit.

If you do buy the car make sure it has all of the options it shows on the window sticker as some car models have had to cut back on their options due to shortages of chips.

I was in the new car business for 13 years, but it was a long time ago.

Also check with CarMax if you have one in your area to see if they'll give you a quote on your GTI.

sgmsmg

I just recently traded in my Golf R towards a 2023 4Runner. Prior to talking to the dealer I got quotes from Carvana and Carmax. Asked the dealer about trade in and they offered $4K less than both the quotes I had. As such I let them know I would not be trading in my car. They quickly changed their mind and finally offered me within a few hundred dollars of the Carmax quote.

Like someone else suggested get offers from Carmax and Carvana to use in bargaining and if they don't budge just sell it to one of them.

tratliff

I have bought and traded 3 cars in 18 months. All 3 of the new cars were noted to have a market adjustment. Most recent purchase dealers were wanting 15-20k additional. All dealers that I spoke with I was up front in telling them I would not pay a dealer added market adjustment. If it was something we shouldn’t pursue I moved on.

Some dealers were quick to start backing off. Others not so much. Long story short I have not paid any market adjustment on any of the cars.

Be ready to travel. I picked up one 925 miles from my house. The last one was 350.

Some dealers want to sell. Others want to play games. My most recent transaction was done in 20 minutes, but it took 2 weeks and lots of phone calls to locate the right salesman/dealership.

Milito

Be careful if you deal with Carvana as numerous people have had issues with them.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/carvana-faces-government-scrutiny-and-fines-following-consumer-complaints-11634902676

sucks2beme

That has even become more common with dealerships
In general. They have had to scrounge up used cars to
sell from sources other than trade ins. They have also
not paid off balances on cars traded in.

tratliff

Also, as others have said Carmax, AutoNation and Carvana have been very helpful in setting trade/sale values. I sold one to AutoNation and traded the others. Problem with selling and not trading has been the tax difference. Which can be rather large when the old vehicle value is 50k+. Just be aware and informed. Good dealers try to work out an acceptable solution.

treitz3

Not in this order....

1 - Get your used car trade in value. NEVER let the dealership know what said value is until after their offer. Take the vehicle away if they do not offer within a reasonable amount (time and trouble to do it yourself with the other party).

2 - Select your vehicle. Don't get "sold" on a vehicle, get the vehicle you want to own.

3 - NEVER, EVER let them know that you are interested in said vehicle. For any reason, even if it's something that you really like about said vehicle. I.E., color, seats, options.....whatever it may be about said vehicle? You "don't like it"! (Even if you LOVE it!).

4 - You will NOT be buying today. No matter what.

5 - The wife is the boss. (even if it's you that will be making the decision). Just inform her that no matter what they say, she will not be impressed (even if she is over the top enthralled)

6 - Don't get caught up into the psychological BS with phrases like, "Imagine what your neighbors would think if this was parked in your driveway?". This is a classic sales technique. It places that vehicle mentally (in your mind) in your driveway....don't fall for it.....get back to negotiations. The best phrase to respond to this kind of sales technique is to say, "I'm really not interested in buying today".

7 - Go over every aspect of the vehicle. ANYTHING that is wrong with it, insist that they either professionally correct it or offer a discount. Be VERY picky with this. Literally anything. Be ridiculous with it. (You are the customer, after all).

8 - Make them think that they will be able to finance said vehicle. Even if you are pre-qualified or can pay cash. DO NOT let them know this. They will allow more discounts if they think they can bend you over on financing. The only question that should very casually be asked is if the balance of the loan can be paid off early, with no penalty. Take the loan and pay it off in days. They think they bent you over, when in fact, you bent them over.

9 - You are NOT impressed with the selection of the vehicle you are looking at. This is very important. If they even so much as get a hint that you like said vehicle? The price just shot up. If your other half says that she "likes" "x" about said vehicle, she just done gone and blew it. Price just shot up. What they need to know is that you are not too particularly enthralled with said vehicle and that you would like to take the time to shop elsewhere.

10 - Don't fall for the..."This price is only good for today" ploy. While this may be true with certain unscrupulous dealerships, the vast majority will sell the same vehicle for less the next day to you and/or another customer.....unless you give them a hint that you like the absolute smallest of things about the vehicle they are trying to sell you.

11 - Go toward the last 5 to 3 days of the month. GC's and salesmen are more willing to take a loss or not make much of a profit just to make quotas. (Keep in mind, dealerships get a kickback....even though they will deny it to their death bed and beyond).

That said, there are exceptions.

You want the latest 2023 Corvette Z06 70th Anniversary edition or the Ford Bronco that was special ordered and jacked up with aftermarket crap by the dealership? LOL. Be prepared to pay WELL over MSRP. I am talking about regular vehicles that Joe Schmoe would buy.

I could offer you way more advice on buying a vehicle but that would take a novel. Just trust me when I say that the above advice should suffice. The last two vehicles I bought were both 10K under asking (1 new, 1 used) and the trade in(s) were valued at thousands over their actual worth. (I highly detailed them before evaluation and added additives in the engines to quiet the common noises that mechanics could easily pick up on the major issues that were happening)

Heck, the Hyundai Sonata I traded in? I would bet that the engine blew within 3K miles. It was a known issue (even a recall on the vehicle) but the additives hid the knocking issue that was normally heard. Well worth the $8 to add to the engine before appraisal. Tires were worn but cleaned and dressed and the interior looked spotless, after steam cleaning it and detailing it. Minimal work but it paid off.

The biggest piece of advice I can offer?

No matter how you are salivating over a particular vehicle? You aren't impressed with it......even if you are falling over yourself to get it. Show absolutely no signs of being impressed and assume (in all actions presented to the dealership) that you want to shop elsewhere to see what's out there....

....even if they say that this is THE best vehicle that fits your needs at THE best price.....and that the offered price will not be the same when you return.

Tom

tratliff

I take a complete different approach than Tom describes above. To me that methodology went away when cars became more limited and inventory got smaller.

I spend a lot of time researching trade value, new car availability and understanding how the new vehicle is equipped. I am generally only talking to dealers that have the exact car or ones that will be receiving them shortly. With todays dealer websites this is rather easy.

I make it clear I am ready to purchase now. I don't need to drive or see the car. They mostly ask me what the details are that I am looking for. Then try to explain how outrageous they are. I then explain we can do it now. The last dealer, that I described above, asked if they could have a few minutes to research. Then called back and said ok. I gave them a CC number and picked it up the following Saturday.

I also make it clear that they can finance as long as rates are competitive. I have not yet paid a rate as much as my bank was offering. In the last transaction the dealer beat my bank by .5%.

Its an approach that has worked for me but upfront research is key.

VR3

Given how I normally buy things, cars for me are pure numbers.

Every car I have bought has been only when the car payment of the new car and the potential gas bill of the new car was equal to or less then the current gas bill of the paid off car.

F150 (12 mpg) > scion xd (30 mpg) > prius (50 mpg)

Emlyn

The market is very unusual these days. A "hot" selling vehicle that's in high demand has always had a dealer markup but during the pandemic pretty much every vehicle was in short supply and had a "market adjustment" applied. As always, the best deal is going to be on vehicles where there's a supply available because people aren't buying as many as are being produced. The Honda Ridgeline is one case. Discounts on those are back to what they were pre-pandemic of around $3K with special financing available. I understand Stellantis/Fiat/Chrysler is also having problems selling what they make.

sucks2beme

Stellantis/Fiat/Chrysler are on my don't buy list. Quality has nosedived..
If it's not a v8, worthless. Even with a v8, not particularly good.

Emlyn

I had a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Everything people said about their products starting to fall apart after three years was correct even though they look great and perform well. I loved that vehicle while I had it though. That was the first Chrysler product I'd owned since the 1980s and the quality experience didn't change for the better. My dad was a Chrysler guy because they were the cheapest option. Never again!

heiney9

So far day 1 has been interesting. Some places can't answer a simple question, like is the car available? One place I had 5 different people involved. I asked that question at 8:30 AM and I didn't get an answer until 2:30 and in between would have been a great Laurel & Hardy routine.

The car I want (the only car I am interested in) is just leaving port and 95% of the dealers don't even have them on the lot yet. Many have been sold sight unseen. Saturday there were 6 vehicles available within 100 miles all but 1 had been sold.

Back to the Laurel & Hardy routine. In the end they said the car "just arrived". I was extremely skeptical as all day they had been trying to get me to stop at the dealer. I wasn't going to unless the car had arrived. Their internet posting said "in transit". I made an appointment for 5:00, confirmed the appointment and 1/2 hour later I get a text the car is SOLD.

I was so annoyed, they could have told me that at 8:30 this morning. I hate being dicked around and this is why I have never bought a car in the past from this dealer. Thought maybe times had changed.

Another dealer (out of town) said they were getting the color I wanted in Friday. I just asked nicely if they planned to add a "market adjustment". No BS, they said yes $3K. I politely said thanks so much for your time, but I wasn't interested in paying above MSRP.

Other inquiries have been hit and miss even when I explain in very plain terms I am only interested in the 40 Anniversary GTI, nothing else. If I can't get one of those I'll keep the GTI I have. But they still want me to come in and look at other cars....lol.

Since most are just leaving port it'll probably be another couple of weeks of hilarity amongst the few dozen dealers within a 100 mile radius.

What they also don't get, is I'd like to buy one, but I don't really care if I do unless the numbers are good. I don't need to buy a car, but I will if I can get a fair price. In this case I would pay MSRP because of the limited supply, etc. But I'm not paying a penny over.

So far most dealers are NOT adding to the MSRP. I've encountered 2 out of about 7 I've inquired with.

H9

Kex

Just reading over the details made me want to buy that car! 😂

Maybe you’ve already done this, but did you try checking local inventory using The Official Website? *

According to the finder, there are 46 available within 100 miles of me (granted, that’s a population area of about 15 million), and some of those are Tornado Red.

I also wonder if intermediaries could negotiate the deal on your behalf, such as AAA, or Edmunds, or Costco. That way, they do the calling around and secure the deal so you don’t have to. I know people who’ve done this and were very happy with how painless the process was.

* P.S. about half of those were manual transmissions, and half DSG automated manuals.

mhardy6647

Emlyn wrote: »

... I understand Stellantis/Fiat/Chrysler is also having problems selling what they make.

Imagine that?!

tratliff

heiney9 wrote: »

So far day 1 has been interesting. Some places can't answer a simple question, like is the car available? One place I had 5 different people involved. I asked that question at 8:30 AM and I didn't get an answer until 2:30 and in between would have been a great Laurel & Hardy routine.

The car I want (the only car I am interested in) is just leaving port and 95% of the dealers don't even have them on the lot yet. Many have been sold sight unseen. Saturday there were 6 vehicles available within 100 miles all but 1 had been sold.

Back to the Laurel & Hardy routine. In the end they said the car "just arrived". I was extremely skeptical as all day they had been trying to get me to stop at the dealer. I wasn't going to unless the car had arrived. Their internet posting said "in transit". I made an appointment for 5:00, confirmed the appointment and 1/2 hour later I get a text the car is SOLD.

I was so annoyed, they could have told me that at 8:30 this morning. I hate being dicked around and this is why I have never bought a car in the past from this dealer. Thought maybe times had changed.

Another dealer (out of town) said they were getting the color I wanted in Friday. I just asked nicely if they planned to add a "market adjustment". No BS, they said yes $3K. I politely said thanks so much for your time, but I wasn't interested in paying above MSRP.

Other inquiries have been hit and miss even when I explain in very plain terms I am only interested in the 40 Anniversary GTI, nothing else. If I can't get one of those I'll keep the GTI I have. But they still want me to come in and look at other cars....lol.

Since most are just leaving port it'll probably be another couple of weeks of hilarity amongst the few dozen dealers within a 100 mile radius.

What they also don't get, is I'd like to buy one, but I don't really care if I do unless the numbers are good. I don't need to buy a car, but I will if I can get a fair price. In this case I would pay MSRP because of the limited supply, etc. But I'm not paying a penny over.

So far most dealers are NOT adding to the MSRP. I've encountered 2 out of about 7 I've inquired with.

H9

Stay on it. Plan to travel to where the deal can be had. Tell them what you want and you are ready to do it now. They are selling because folks are buying them site unseen. And when someone agrees put a deposit on CC ASAP.

The car I just picked up is in much higher demand. Be persistent.

Milito

Not saying this happened in your situation, but I can remember seeing cars set on the lot for several months with no interest at all when I sold cars. Then someone would call to see if we had that model in that color and I would say yes we do. They would say they'll be there in a hour or two. All of the sudden we would have 2 to 3 other customers interested in it and one would buy it before my customer got there to try to deal on it. Needless to say they weren't happy, but it wasn't the dealership's fault or mine.

When you're dealing with a high demand car if happens all the time as the dealer can't hold a car with a maybe. I had plenty of customers say they were coming to buy a car we were talking about and they never showed up. It happened to all of the salesmen at the dealerships I worked at.

motorstereo

After reading this thread and seeing what new vehicles currently sell for I count my lucky stars that I don't and hopefully won't need a new vehicle for many years.

heiney9

This is the most prevalent color available. At first I didn't care for it at all. I have not seen it in person and probably won't. If I decide on this color, the car will most likely be bought unseen.

Just curious what others think? Maybe I'm making to big a deal about this color, but it's polarizing. Girlfriend hates it, I'm coming around. It'll be my car so even though she hates the color it's my decision.



H9

heiney9

Milito wrote: »

Not saying this happened in your situation, but I can remember seeing cars set on the lot for several months with no interest at all when I sold cars. Then someone would call to see if we had that model in that color and I would say yes we do. They would say they'll be there in a hour or two. All of the sudden we would have 2 to 3 other customers interested in it and one would buy it before my customer got there to try to deal on it. Needless to say they weren't happy, but it wasn't the dealership's fault or mine.

When you're dealing with a high demand car if happens all the time as the dealer can't hold a car with a maybe. I had plenty of customers say they were coming to buy a car we were talking about and they never showed up. It happened to all of the salesmen at the dealerships I worked at.

Knowing this local dealerships history that's not what happened. The fact that it took 4 people 6.5 hours to answer a simple question is just ridiculous. Very poor communication and customer management.

I would never expect them to "hold it" for me without a firm commitment. They ran me around passed me off and never answered the question. Is the car available, if not, when will it be available. Their internet posting said it was "in transit" from port as do all but a couple dealers websites say.

In fact it's still on the website today even though it's sold. And I bet if I had co-worker inquire today they would get the same run around.

H9