50 year anniversary r200 signed by matt polk
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The midrange however compared to the grandes and Wilson's is insanely veiled. B this is not a dig on the r200 considering the dramatic price differences but just the reality of the speaker.
Did you find this characteristic the same for standard R200, Trey?I disabled signatures. -
Are they even broken in yet? I certainly don't expect them to equal the level of uber expensive speakers, but your comment makes it sound like it's a transistor radio speaker.
I would think they'd fair better as I feel the midrange is one of the strong points.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I have only heard the standard one at Troys and I would have to say the sound characteristics are very similar.
I genuinely like the R200ae, I wouldn't keep them if I didn't. They have met my expectations and then some. I have about 50 or so hours on them as I spend about of time at my desk doing work.
At the same time I have to be honest in my thoughts, when you put them against the Wilson duette, 13k 10 years ago. The grande, 75k in 1998...
The midrange performance just is not there compared to that caliber of speaker. It is missing alot in that frequency band.- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
I’ve been running them every day since the 16th either with music when I’m home or with the tv when not. Minimum 6-8 hours a day. I suspect they are what they are now.
I’ve tried them in two rooms and two systems.
Don’t get me wrong they are good. Very forgiving and easy to listen to. Maybe a little too refined at times. But it lacks the character of a stand mount imo. My R700s is lighter on its feet overall. Has more air around vocals and controls its bass better. Now I’m all my years if you were to compare a stand mount and floor stander it should be the other way around. Especially considering the crossover parts in the 200. For me they tried too hard to make the 200 sound big. You shouldn’t have to pull a stand mount speaker halfway out into the room for it to have some balance.
But once they are in the right spot they do sound good. But not great. So at this stage I’m a bit disappointed.
Post edited by Braddles63 on -
Maybe my expectations were a bit high.
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I'm thinking the room is too big for those to shine. All my Polk bookies are in a much smaller, more intimate near field listening environment. A small speaker can only do so much in a large room.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Agreed. I mainly tried them out there to see how they compared to the 700s. Mostly to compare the upper mid and treble as I felt the 200s were a bit veiled. Which confirmed my suspicions.I'm thinking the room is too big for those to shine. All my Polk bookies are in a much smaller, more intimate near field listening environment. A small speaker can only do so much in a large room.
H9
The last photo is the other much smaller room. 4 x 4.5 meters with some open areas.
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Brad, having the R200s near the R700s isn't helping them, either. I never paid much mind to this, but it makes a difference, especially if the R200s aren't clearing the R700s.
Second, loose math - you said the 16th. Calling that 15 days x8 hours is only 120hrs. Personally, I don't think that's enough time. I've noticed improvements with speakers like months later, and that's with daily use. My first experience with this was with LSiM703s at around 9 months. Literally stopped in my tracks walking through my main space at the realization of how good they were sounding.
More recent experience was with L800s and L200s as examples. They both took at least 2 months of essentially 24/7 run time. I'd turn down the volume at night or when I wasn't listening, but they were always playing this whole time. The L800s got even better after two months.
What would you like for the AEs to do? I've recently found that they're quite tunable to a point. You could stick them back closer to the wall for greater bass output, as you know, but keep them clear of any obstacles for the cleanest mids and highs.
Play around with your listening triangle distances. Try sitting long, and sitting short.
Play around with toe, from straight, to slight, to extreme.
These placement changes can significantly change the speaker's character. I wouldn't have believed it could be so transformative had I not just recently experienced it with R200s. I used to *hate* those friggin' things.
I've found it really fun to get them out far into a room, and to supplement the lows with a sub, and sitting inside the triangle, no toe-in. Beautiful presentation, non-fatiguing, great imaging. I was surprised at how much bass they still output on their own, but the sub shores them up in this type of configuration.
You've still got a good bit of time to go yet on burn-in. I'd even say break-in too, on the mid-woofer.I disabled signatures. -
Brad, having the R200s near the R700s isn't helping them, either. I never paid much mind to this, but it makes a difference, especially if the R200s aren't clearing the R700s.
This. And everything else Scott said.
Unfortunately, if you want to continue to use them in the larger room, you will have to move the towers far away from them. Having them set up as shown in the photos will negatively impact the R200's performance.
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Yeh I shouldn’t have posted the pics.
Or gone into more detail of all the things I tried during the 5 hours I spent.
My bad -
huh?
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SocksPolitical Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Think I will shut up till I have more time on them. 🤞
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What are you running for power? What source?
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What are you running for power? What source?
Big room has a Parasound 2250 into a Marantz SR6014 streaming Tidal.
Smaller room is streaming Qobuz through Klein DAC Yamaha AS700 amp.
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That one pic shows multiple speakers on the right wall that do not look like they are hooked up to a system. I remember Ken (SF) mentioning something about that scenario and that you should short out the speakers in the room that aren't connected to a system. If they are connected to a system that is off that automatically shorts them out. Something about the drivers moving from the sound waves and muddying up the bass. I may be remembering this wrong.
@SeleniumFalcon -
That is correct, left unconnected other speakers in the same room will have their woofers respond to changes in air pressure caused by the playing speakers. All you need to do is put a paper clip between the positive/negative binding posts (the same thing a speaker being shipped should have) to short out the woofer's voice coil.
When you think about it this is exactly how a good amplifier controls the bass performance of a speaker. The amplifier presents a very low impedance to the speaker's voice coil when there's no audio signal being reproduced. It acts like a shorting paper clip between musical impulses to damp the excessive motion of the woofer cone which wants to continue moving after the pulse has stopped. -
@Braddles63 - Good morning to you bro'. I'm glad you posted pics of your system(s). The one thing I have learned over the decades on forums is that you may not like what you hear. I remember when I had or was looking for a Carver CDP and I inquired about it. The late, great George Grand was the first to say to me that I needed to look elsewhere...that Carver CDP's were basically not well regarded and were basically bad.
I did not want to hear that.....but I did. This was back when I first started on the forums and that forum is now defunct and in the internet graveyard, otherwise I would link you to the actual thread.
Point being, he told me something I needed to hear. Whether I liked it at the time or not. At the time? I didn't feel all warm and cozy about his comment but as time marched on and more CDP's came and went? I discovered for myself that what he stated was absolutely 100% true. He may be in heaven now but I still thank him until today for just blurting out the truth (on a Carver forum, nonetheless!)
Getting back to your comments about not posting pictures and keeping quiet....We would not have a frame of reference to what you are hearing without the knowledge that other speakers are in the room. The room is THE single biggest component in your rig.
KenS (@SeleniumFalcon) is correct. That said, I would take this one step further. Lose the other speakers in the room altogether (if you can) when evaluating or doing any kind of critical listening. Even a sub when not in use for HT. When I bought my new speakers and set them next to the old speakers, the old speakers sounded quite a bit different than they had. Same as when we hooked up the new speakers and the old ones were just sitting there, right next to the new ones.
When we removed the older speakers, the new ones opened up quite a bit, the lower registers had quite a bit more slam and texture and even the sound stage dramatically changed for the better. Ya' gotta remember that acoustics (beyond that of the speaker) play a large roll into what the end result as to what hits your ears will be.
Even the presence of other speakers in the room will have an affect on the ones you are playing. FWIW.
P.S. - The whole point of forums is to talk about the very hobby we are all interested in. The vast majority of this forum is filled with members who have a plethora of knowledge and are willing to help out and discuss their journey/observations, so that we all gain together. We are one of the few fourms that speak plainly, truthfully and do not thwart your audio journey. For example, we do not say all amplifiers sound the same, we do not say that cables make no difference, we do not solely rely on measurements only. We do not believe in restricting a system or one's journey for any reason.
Oh, Jesse needs you to wear socks man.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I remember when we were being considered by Linn Products to carry their turntable, the LP12, one of their rules was only one speaker pair present in the audio room where their turntable was being demoed against another turntable. They wanted people to be able to compare the LP12 and a competing turntable (preferably the Technics SP10) set up with the same tonearm and cartridge and only one pair of speakers in that listening room.
They insisted on this rule, we didn't feel the restriction was fair, it seemed too autocratic for us so we declined. -
Hey Tom
Yes it’s 1 am New Year’s Day here and I’m full of cheer. 😅
Appreciate yours and everyone’s input and enjoy sharing our experience.
What I meant by my comment was the pictures were a mere snapshot of what I did when testing for over 5 hours.
For instance I know that listing to speakers sided by side is no good and I didn’t while doing my test. But the pic doesn’t show that so it’s a bit frustrating that it’s what others judge on.
Not their fault. Can only go on the info given and I didn’t explain my test properly hence my comment.
I’m keen to move the other speakers out of the room and see if that helps. Never to late to learn new things.
Happy New Year guys. -
Braddles63 wrote: »Yes it’s 1 am New Year’s Day here <snip>
Happy New Year guys.
Wow! Where on this big, blue marble are you located?
Happy New Years to you and yours!
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Braddles63 wrote: »Yes it’s 1 am New Year’s Day here <snip>
Happy New Year guys.
Wow! Where on this big, blue marble are you located?
Happy New Years to you and yours!
Tom
Perth. Western Australia 👍 -
I believe you are not to far from @ptrooper aussie gathering!- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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@SeleniumFalcon Thank you. I remember that Linn had an acronym (SSD?) for their insistence on demoing their products with only a Single Speaker pair in the room. Not convenient if you’re a Linn dealer, I would imagine, and my local one no longer abides.
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When I had the 1.2tl in my living room I would face the drivers towards the wall as it really sucked the life out of the room- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Hey guys, crap, this got a little sideways and I think it was partly my fault. Brad and I have been talking for a while by PM re: the AEs. I was talking to Brad and Trey trying to decide whether to get a set after my recently 180° reversed position on the R200s after some setup, room, and integrated changes, and I've been pretty spastic about audio again recently.
I ended up with a set of AEs, as well, I'm ashamed to say (help me @Tony Mkenobi, you're my only hope) and I've been trying to relate my improved experience with the base R200s to Brad's situation and questions and ever so slight frustration with trying to get them set up to his liking, as well as trying to be patient through my own break-in/burn-in with them, because right now, the base R200s are performing better than the AEs.
Admittedly, I was posting very freely yesterday eve, all jacked up on coffee and zeal for audio when I wrote to Brad on my post. Then Drew hopped in to affirm, and everyone know's Drew's a dick, but a cool and awesome dick. Probably seemed a bit like glomming on.
I didn't realize that one photo wasn't necessarily how Brad was running them for audition. That said, the points I shared about the space and air - that's all been profound for me, and it's taken me 9 years to try it, despite seeing the technique in photos over the years. This all happened quite by accident while I was using them to test a piece of gear.
And then Good Tom, great points and relational contribution as usual.
Side note here - what's the deal with Australian and that weird lack of wide availability of gear and the high cost?
Anyway, just wanted to post up to account for the bossy, critical tone of my post. Everyone here knows I don't really know anything, anyway.Braddles63 wrote: »Yeh I shouldn’t have posted the pics.
Or gone into more detail of all the things I tried during the 5 hours I spent.
My badhuh?Braddles63 wrote: »Think I will shut up till I have more time on them. 🤞@Braddles63 - Good morning to you bro'. I'm glad you posted pics of your system(s).
...
Oh, Jesse needs you to wear socks man.
TomBraddles63 wrote: »Hey Tom
Yes it’s 1 am New Year’s Day here and I’m full of cheer. 😅
Appreciate yours and everyone’s input and enjoy sharing our experience.
What I meant by my comment was the pictures were a mere snapshot of what I did when testing for over 5 hours.
For instance I know that listing to speakers sided by side is no good and I didn’t while doing my test. But the pic doesn’t show that so it’s a bit frustrating that it’s what others judge on.
Not their fault. Can only go on the info given and I didn’t explain my test properly hence my comment.
I’m keen to move the other speakers out of the room and see if that helps. Never to late to learn new things.
Happy New Year guys.Post edited by msg onI disabled signatures. -
Then Drew hopped in to affirm, and everyone know's Drew's a dick, but a cool and awesome dick. Probably seemed a bit like glomming on.
Oh god I need O2! I've got snot flying out of my nose I'm laughing so hard. -
Setting up a new or different rig isn't always easy and takes a lot patience and persistence and most of all time. Time for evaluation, time for break in, etc. There is no perfect space. There are no hard and fast rules. But I agree the sympathetic resonance of other speakers in a listening space can cause some real issues.
My office rig is a bit of a compromise since the room isn't a dedicated listening space. I've done the best I can and I think the sound great, especially at lower levels in a near field.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
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Side note here - what's the deal with Australian and that weird lack of wide availability of gear and the high cost?
It's a freakin' island on the other side of the world.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
