Looking for a new, cheaper subwoofer. Velodyne finally kicked the bucket.

rooftop59

PSOVLSK wrote: »

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_839DY400B/MartinLogan-Dynamo-400.html?cc=07

Opinions on this one?

Haven’t heard it, but It’s only 8 inches with a slot port and less connection options.

Here are some good options:

1. https://www.ebay.com/itm/134163035704
2. https://www.ebay.com/itm/175333883752
3. https://www.ebay.com/itm/255613038801?hash=item3b83b970d1:g:XnoAAOSwo9diwkcg

I have owned all three, all three are excellent sealed subs for music that dig into the mid to lower 20hz range. In this case, the most expensive is the best…

Clipdat

It's very cute.

motorstereo

My SVS sb16 ultra is the only piece of gear in my main rig that I bought brand new. I also looked at the used market, diy, plate amp for my old 18'' sub etc. I hated to spend the $$ to as I was laid off and had just gotten back from vacationing at the opposite end of the continent when my old sub died. One year later now that expense is long forgotten and I'm still convinced I made the right decision.

PSOVLSK

I need to pay better attention before posting. I didn’t even notice it was an 8”🤦‍♂️

F1nut

I've got a couple of 8" Velodyne subs that'll kick a lot of 10 and 12 inch sub's a$$es.

jbreezy5

Wouldn’t mind trying one of these ($450):

https://rslspeakers.com/speedwoofer10s-mkii/

MikeUp

Thanks everyone, I don't buy used. Not because I'm a snob but because in today's society now there's a lot of people that aren't the cleanest, Rich and Poor, and Bed Bugs and **** Roaches love dark places to hide in. I've been told you are better off throwing away your furniture than pay for the constant chemical treatments for Bed Bugs. It's cheaper to throw away your furniture.

As far as my Velodyne. It is the best subwoofer I've heard. What I mean by that is that is the best overall. It has the lowest bass extension I've heard in an affordable subwoofer. It is very musical and has the ability to blend well enough to think that bookshelf speakers are towers. It has great punch, better than most. It has a high decibel output that none of my other subs could match. It has speaker level inputs with speaker level outputs with a built in 85Hz crossover for your main speakers along with the variable crossover for the sub. It also has a crossover for the line level outputs. It excels at everything.

Now while I know most here hate Polk, my Polk TL1600 subwoofers are very musical and better than most. They blend seamlessly with the main speakers just like the Velodyne Sub does. They sound great for music. I have 2 TL1600 subwoofers. The reason I'm not using the other subwoofer is that the subwoofer doesn't have a lot of output which is fine for my media room. The subwoofer doesn't have a lot of bass extension below 40Hz which I like to hear on some music and definitely when watching movies through the Home Theater. Plus for some reason, it has inherent buzz all the time which isn't a ground loop. The reason I have 2 systems as I found the buzz on the 2nd subwoofer as well. The subwoofer sounds that good that I accepted the buzz since it can't be heard at the listening position.

Now I'm really impressed with the Polk little 8inchers. The DSW 660wi shares a very similar design except getting rid of the bass port in exchange for a less noisy slot vent just as the Velodyne CT-100 has.

I get how the sealed subs can be better with music, which is my priority but I've heard many subs that are ported sound great with music as my little Polk subs. The down fall to sealed is that the bass can start to roll off early reducing midbass while the lower bass is hanging in for a good -3db point. Most of the good tower speakers are not sealed, but vented with a round port or slot. Then the remaining use bass radiators. There's some sealed speakers but ported are the most popular and many of the those speakers sound great for MUSIC which is a speakers main priority especially in a tower speaker.

I have spent a lot of time setting up my subs for the best possible sound and it's time consuming. Now the Polk DSW 660wi comes with an optimizer 4 way setting for different room situations. Not sure I like that they didn't have a 'normal' setting but they did say midroom setting is the default setting. While these may help, they could definitely hurt the sound quality big time.

I've read good and bad about all the more expense subs as the SVS, DSW 660wi and the like. While you Rich people may not think a $600 sub is expensive, it is to most of the middle income population. When most subs can be purchased between $150 - $300, a sub over $700 sounds ridiculous and a waste of money. While obviously it does offer benefits over cheaper subs, the point of diminishing returns plays in. What you are paying 2X the cost for may not even be appreciated by most good hearing people or audio enthusiasts. I don't say audiophile because that's a swear word IMO. I put area 51, big foot, superstitions, and conspiracy theorists in the same group. That is most of what they see/hear is a figment of their imagination or bias. But hey, thats just me. I know plenty who believe in ghosts.

The Polk Sub is a steal at $350 IMO for what it offers, 25Hz -3db, 400 watts rms/800 watts peak, remote, optimizer's, and a 12" driver.

If I don't like it, I'm not too proud to admit it if I don't, I'll send it back. If it's anything like the TL1600 but with lower extension, and more power and output, I'll love it.

Thanks for everything. I appreciate the suggestions. I just may not be on the same page that some of you are on. I pride myself on getting the best bang for the buck or the best performance to dollar ratio, and hate to throw money at what I may not appreciate.

Thanks for your help.

jbreezy5

@MikeUp:

The point of diminishing returns is much higher than the $700 price-point in powered subwoofers.

That’s not spooky to say; it’s blatantly obvious to most persons, including non-audiophiles.

I don’t make fun of people for having low budgets, and hope persons looking for decent sound at a value find what makes them happy.

Take another look above your post; a highly regarded and heavily reviewed sub, that historically measured very well is available new for $450.00.

But lets avoid absurd claims in the other direction also. Based on your above arguments, I can’t understand your belief that a $300-$400 sub would significantly outperform the subs you already own. That is arguably more magical than someone claiming to hear qualitative improvements from a better overall design at a higher pricepoint.

MikeUp

jbreezy5 wrote: »

@MikeUp:

But lets avoid absurd claims in the other direction also. Based on your above arguments, I can’t understand your belief that a $300-$400 sub would significantly outperform the subs you already own.

I wasn't trying to find a sub to out perform my Velodyne CT-100, I was trying to find a sub to 'equal' it in performance.

My Yamaha YST-SW012 sub cost me around $100 and is very muddy and doesn't go very low in the bass. Many subs would be significant improvements.

My Polk TL1600 subwoofer with TL1 satellite speakers and TL1 center channel speaker was $230. TL speakers are $58/speaker on Amazon and TL1 Center is $75. I split the $230 system price in half to say the TL1600 subwoofer was $115. It is significantly better than the Yamaha YST-SW012. I bought the Jamo S808 subwoofer for $115 on Amazon. It was SIGNIFICANTLY worse than the YST-SW012 subwoofer and even more so against the Polk TL1600 subwoofer.

The Velodyne CT-100 was $300 in 1998 using an inflation calculator, today it would be $545. It was significantly better than any of the mentioned subwoofers.

The Polk DSW 660wi Subwoofer is sold at most stores at $699 so I do expect it to signicantly out perform the TL1600, S808, YST-SW012s and equal if not out perform the Velodyne CT-10, even though I paid $350 for it.

When you get past limitations of the Jamo and Yamaha, being muddy sound and having little low bass extension, and lower output. Then past the limitations of the TL1600 subwoofer having lower output and no low bass extension. I can see significant improvements up the money ladder.

The Velodyne and DSW 660wi have excellent low bass extension, being very good with music (if DSW 660wi follows the TL1600 subwoofer), and have excellent high output levels. There's little to improve upon that would be "significant" in the sound quality when you get past their price levels "IMO".

All I can do is listen and find out how it performs. Going by reviews, I say it's going to perform excellent.

jbreezy5

“The Velodyne CT-100 was $300 in 1998 using an inflation calculator, today it would be $545. It was significantly better than any of the mentioned subwoofers.”

“I wasn't trying to find a sub to out perform my Velodyne CT-100, I was trying to find a sub to 'equal' it in performance.“

Right. So what guys have said here was reasonable. Suggesting stretching to $600 may get you in the ballpark of finding a comparable sub to your Velodyne, once accounting for inflation.

Nevertheless, $700 still is not the point of diminishing returns with subs, as claimed in your previous post; that’s pretty much where decent entry-level starts with subs.

I wish you the best on your search.

rooftop59

F1nut wrote: »

I've got a couple of 8" Velodyne subs that'll kick a lot of 10 and 12 inch sub's a$$es.

Sure, if you pay over a grand for a well engineered 8 inch sub, it can perform excellently. Not helpful to the OP, but point taken.

A sub with bed bugs? I have heard some strange things in my life, but that’s a first!

I missed the original point that you are mostly happy with entry level Polk subs that don’t go below 40hz. Given that very low bar, I’m sure you’re love the 660. Enjoy!

WLDock

jbreezy5 wrote: »

Wouldn’t mind trying one of these ($450):

https://rslspeakers.com/speedwoofer10s-mkii/

That is supposed to be a nice sub for the money! Many say it is controlled enough for music in many rooms yet has a ton of output for a 10" for movies.



https://youtu.be/fUzCcuGLna4

https://youtu.be/8Hz8HIrEnZM

rooftop59

jbreezy5 wrote: »

Wouldn’t mind trying one of these ($450):

https://rslspeakers.com/speedwoofer10s-mkii/

I would definitely try that one to at least compare against the Polk. I can’t help but think it would smoke the pork for music…

WLDock

rooftop59 wrote: »

jbreezy5 wrote: »

Wouldn’t mind trying one of these ($450):

https://rslspeakers.com/speedwoofer10s-mkii/

I would definitely try that one to at least compare against the Polk. I can’t help but think it would smoke the pork for music…

The driver looks like something from a $800 - $1000 sub. (The SVS SB-2000 for example)



https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/rsl-10s-

la2vegas

No affiliation, for 200 bucks I might have to take a look at this. https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/ele/d/redondo-beach-subwoofer-rsl-speedwoofer/7510049523.html

Clipdat

Go for it, add it to the stack of unused gear sitting in the garage.

la2vegas

Clipdat wrote: »

Go for it, add it to the stack of unused gear sitting in the garage.

It's the staging pile. Everything will be used in due time.

TEAforONE

My advise would be to remain patient. There are unbelievable deals out there occasionally, you just have to scour the classifieds. I was in the market recently to upgrade the subs in my listening room. I was ready to purchase brand new,as these new subs were probably going to be with me for a long time. While researching subs,I came across a pair of SVS sb2000 pro’s for a ridiculously low price. I immediately contacted the seller,thinking that at his price ($850 for the pair delivered), there was something amiss. There was however,nothing wrong with these. They are a wonderful upgrade to my aging HSU entry level subs. So,just keep your eyes open. Best of luck!

MikeUp

WLDock wrote: »

jbreezy5 wrote: »

Wouldn’t mind trying one of these ($450):

https://rslspeakers.com/speedwoofer10s-mkii/

That is supposed to be a nice sub for the money! Many say it is controlled enough for music in many rooms yet has a ton of output for a 10" for movies.



https://youtu.be/fUzCcuGLna4

https://youtu.be/8Hz8HIrEnZM

Yeh, I seen a test on it. It puts out a lot of output but it rolled off and had little output below 30. I wanted something that could go under 30Hz like my Velodyne. However, it does offer a lot of output in the 30s which is a big plus for such little money and it's supposedly good with music.

Thanks for the post.

MikeUp

rooftop59 wrote: »

jbreezy5 wrote: »

Wouldn’t mind trying one of these ($450):

https://rslspeakers.com/speedwoofer10s-mkii/

I would definitely try that one to at least compare against the Polk. I can’t help but think it would smoke the pork for music…

If I'm unhappy with the DSW Pro 660, I'll definitely consider it but it's out of stock for quite a while.

Despite the negativity hear, I continue to read glowing reviews on the 660wi stating others like it better than the SVS PB1000 but the SVS PB2000 is better than the Polk. If it meets the performance of my Velodyne CT-100 (which I believe many here would hate), I'll be really happy for $350.

txcoastal1

Please report back...all opinions are excepted even if we were bustin' your ballz...happy listening

pitdogg2

Hey if it works for you, wonderful! We've seen some terrible issues with the Polk plate amps for years.
Do a search for soundbars and subs here, wait for the pages to load😉

PSOVLSK

I think you’re going to like the 66wi. I have zero knowledge of the sub, but based on everything you’ve said, I think it will be a great fit for you. Are there better subs out there for not a lot more money? Yes. Does everyone feel the need to have one? No. Enjoy your system and report back once you’ve had a chance to give it a good listen.

F1nut

One needs to understand what folks are using the 660 for. As I believe I stated, for HT it does the job as that is what it was designed for. However, it lacks for music. So, all those good reviews....highly likely they are talking about HT use.

MikeUp

F1nut wrote: »

One needs to understand what folks are using the 660 for. As I believe I stated, for HT it does the job as that is what it was designed for. However, it lacks for music. So, all those good reviews....highly likely they are talking about HT use.

Actually most good reviews sited how good it was for music. I know you don't like it but I'll see how I do. If I don't, I can send it back and try to find a suitable plate amp for my Slot Vented Velodyne CT-100.

I didn't look at plate amps because it looks like a suitable plate amp will be between $200 and $300 which is the price of brand new subwoofers I've been looking at. Also not sure if the original plate amp had built in equalization tuned to the subwoofer's driver which would make an aftermarket plate amp less than ideal.

OR I could get out my soldering iron and fluke and see which components are bad and start replacing. Honestly, I just don't have the time for another project so replacement is easiest.

BTW, the CT in the Velodyne CT-100 name actually means Classic Home Theater since they were designed as such. This was the first year for the series. The second year they changed the name to include initial H and the replacement for my sub was the CHT-10 model with a bump in amp power from 100 watts RMS to 150 watts RMS.

While it was designed to be a home theater sub, it still excels with music.

F1nut

In that case there's a lot of folks that don't know what a musical sub should sound like. I'm out.

WLDock

MikeUp wrote: »

Yeh, I seen a test on it.It puts out a lot of output but it rolled off and had little output below 30. I wanted something that could go under 30Hz like my Velodyne. However, it does offer a lot of output in the 30s which is a big plus for such little money and it's supposedly good with music.
Thanks for the post.

The sub has DSP processing with an LFE mode and MUSIC mode.
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/rsl-10s-mkii/conclusion

The above graph shows the measured frequency responses for the RSL Speedwoofer 10S MKII subwoofer per its operating modes.

The LFE Mode holds a nice flat response from the mid-20s up to 100Hz while the Music Mode rolls off the response at around 30Hz. I used the sub in LFE Mode for my own listening, and most people would probably find that more satisfying. The extra deep bass is noticeable. Above 100Hz, the upper-frequency roll-off is gradual, and it could probably be EQ’d for a flatter response without much trouble for those who want to use a 120Hz crossover.

‘Music Mode’ will have enough frequency bandwidth for the vast majority of music recordings. Music rarely dips below 30Hz, especially in acoustic recordings. RSL may have made this mode available for instances where room gain can really boost lower frequencies which is not an uncommon occurrence. There are plenty of movies that do dig below 30Hz, so for home theater aims, LFE Mode is recommended.

Previous generation measurements - https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/rsl-speedwoofer-10s






The Velodyne CT-100 has a rated response of: 28hz - 120hz +/. 3dB

Here's a review of the much larger 15" CT-150 with measurements:
https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_6_3/velodyne-ct-150-subwoofer.html

I obtained 105.6 dB maximum output at 31.5 Hz, before clipping, measured at 1 meter. As you can see, the response is pretty flat in the 25 Hz - 100 Hz range. The 125 Hz dip at 4 meters is a room effect.

Here's another review of the larger 12" CT-120 with in room response measurements.
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Velodyne+CT+Series+Classic+Home+Theater+Speaker+System.-a076996213

"Stepping up to the bigger CT-120, both room-response and near-field measurements showed that while that unit is also not an HGS-killer, it was definitely a sub that could be considered a subwoofer.
It was only slightly more extended than the CT-80, but it could get where it wanted to go down low at a considerably higher output level. At the 17-foot, corner-to-couch distance, the CT-120 could hit 100 dB cleanly at 31.5 Hz, and 104 dB with some minor doubling. At 20 Hz, it could hit 90 dB, with some doubling showing up at about 93 dB."

rooftop59

F1nut wrote: »

In that case there's a lot of folks that don't know what a musical sub should sound like. I'm out.

While many (most?) of us agree with you, Ed Mullen of SVS fame seemed reasonably satisfied with the psw505 for music, and surely this dsw660 is like a 505 on roids (and more importantly, EQ). I think the OP will be happy...

https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_2/polk-psw-505-subwoofer-4-2005.html

WLDock

In all reality, if your sub turns on and just has the 60 Hz hums, its very possible that its just the filter caps that have gone bad. Maybe find a local shop or tech that will repair it. You can source the parts yourself.




Other than that.... there are used deals that may show up in your area .... as far as a new sub under $500?

- The Speedwoofer,

- SVS outlet subs, SB-1000, PB-1000, etc.

- Emotiva Airmotiv SE12 12" Flex
https://emotiva.com/products/airmotiv-se12-subwoofer?utm_campaign=gs-2019-11-07&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8uOWBhDXARIsAOxKJ2GzzYo3ySToE8Wd3bA_XnKhk3gXG5JRoNDqbBP8DN3aRkuzrpfHJHMaAn5hEALw_wcB#em-sin-pro-chat-lined

https://youtu.be/NGo_4c47tSE
https://youtu.be/IWdqr7qiNl0


Can always wait and save. Can find some great subs in the $500 - $600 range.

https://www.rythmikaudio.com/clearance.html

mrloren

I only recommend subs and brands I've listened to. I have a lot of experience with HSU and some with SVS. Never heard any one of their subs that was bad. Just have to spend $$$ to get the right sub for room size. The SB2000 I just put in our bedroom is perfect for that room. Now move it to the family room it's not so great.

Polk subs are ok. When one could pickup a PSW505 for $149 that was a steal. Several friends have 2 of those in their HT. 1/2 of them have had to replace the amps on them.

I use an old Sony 12" at work that plays 8-12 hours 5 days a week sounds ok for what it's used for.