Looking for a new, cheaper subwoofer. Velodyne finally kicked the bucket.

13

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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,116
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    Look for a Martin Logan ...... abyss, or grotto. Excellent music subs!

    +1 on the Grotto and Abyss.
    I disabled signatures.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    +1 on msg
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    edited July 2022
    It stands for Madison Square Garden, right?
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 8,121
    msg wrote: »
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    Look for a Martin Logan ...... abyss, or grotto. Excellent music subs!

    +1 on the Grotto and Abyss.

    But they might have 🛌 🐛 🐞!!!
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1     Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    Why is everyone so worried about bugs all of a sudden
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,116
    I feel itchy.
    I disabled signatures.
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  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 1,141
    I think bugs add wonderful texture to low bass frequencies. A good alternative to tubes in that regard.
    CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC

    DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)

    Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777

    Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)

    Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150

    Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i

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    Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,894
    We encountered an aquarium full of hissing cockroaches one day at the (university) natural history museum in Oxford.
    I am generally OK with most any kind of insect, arachnoid, crustacean, and other flavors of arthropods -- but they gave me the heebie-jeebies.

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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,300
    The hissing ones are funny. My wife hates flying cockroaches which hang out and breed in palms. We have neighbors of course living in Galveston Cty with palms.

    Our dogs over the years some no longer with us, have grown accustomed to her screech and "roach!!".... they come a runnin' and chasin'

    It's friggin' hilarious

    I don't like them personally due to the big crunch and goo I have to clean.
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • MikeUp
    MikeUp Posts: 86
    edited July 2022
    I got my Polk DSW Pro 660wi today and it's about the same size as my Velodyne CT-100. The Polk is wider by an 1-1/2" and less deep by 2-1/4".

    The optimizer does make a huge difference. My sub sits next to a hallway opening and the Kitchen opening so I kept it as the default setting of midroom. The selections are cabinet, corner, midroom and midwall. Corner and Midwall selections cut the bass ouput significantly I guess at an attempt to combat room resonances.

    I left phase at 0 since it's right behind my left main speaker.

    The weird thing is the volume. My Velodyne had an extreme sensitivity. With volume only set to 3 out of 10, I still had to have my receiver's sub out at -3db. Other subs at 5/10 needed to be +3db - +6db on the receiver volume. The Polk 660wi volume set at 20/40 offered little bass output with receiver sub volume at 0db. To get the same volume level that I had with the Velodyne at 3/10 and receiver sub output at -3db, I had to set the 660wi volume at 30/40 and have the receiver's sub output at 0db.

    As far as sound, awesome! It has tighter bass than Velodyne CT-100 and has more defined bass. I heard details in the bass I hadn't noticed before. It also has a more dynamic punch as evident on kick drum on rock songs. The 660wi goes at least as low as the Velodyne but sounds even lower in the bass from some known movie scenes.

    The 660wi does sound better than the Velodyne on music and movies. So my goal was accomplished and I wasn't much out of pocket either.

    While I really like my little Polk TL1600 subwoofers, the DSW Pro 660wi is more musical, more powerful, more dynamic, and goes much lower in the bass.

    This is an updated model to the older DSW Pro 660wi design. The newer version does not have a dedicated port for the discontinued wireless module. So on Polks website they dropped the wi off of the 660, retail stock is still called the 660wi. The manual also has been updated with the newer version's rear panel layout (lack of a wireless port), and has no mention about wireless at all. I would always go wired strictly for better audio performance. No matter the brand or model of subwoofer, I've read numerous reviews stating issues with the wireless communications on all brands and models. That alone would make me steer clear of wireless.
    Post edited by MikeUp on
    On to new and better adventures
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    MikeUp wrote: »
    The 660wi does sound better than the Velodyne on music and movies. So my goal was accomplished and I wasn't much out of pocket either.

    Glad you found something that works for YOU!

    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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  • MikeUp
    MikeUp Posts: 86
    WLDock wrote: »
    MikeUp wrote: »
    The 660wi does sound better than the Velodyne on music and movies. So my goal was accomplished and I wasn't much out of pocket either.

    Glad you found something that works for YOU!

    Thanks!
    On to new and better adventures
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  • MikeUp
    MikeUp Posts: 86
    edited July 2022
    While most likely in opposition to opinions here, this is a good read. Looks like the 3 top favorites are the RSL 10S MK II, Polk HTS 10, and HSU VTF-2 MK5 while liking SVS Pro SB-1000 Pro for music only and not liking SVS PB-1000 Pro because it wasn't clear sounding.

    To bad they didn't compare the DSW Pro 660wi but was likely discontinued when they did the review.

    See review here. https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-subwoofer-for-home/
    On to new and better adventures
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    What genre of music are you listening to primarily with your new sub?
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  • MikeUp
    MikeUp Posts: 86
    Clipdat wrote: »
    What genre of music are you listening to primarily with your new sub?

    Rock and Country
    On to new and better adventures
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  • mrloren
    mrloren Posts: 2,465
    edited July 2022
    Glad you got your new sub and like it,

    The volume/gain on on subs looks to have changed a few years ago. My STF-2 was always at 9 o-clock, it was hair touchy, same as my VTF-2. When I replaced my plate amp on the STF-2 it was set to 11 o-clock, same with my VTF3. I asked HSU, they said they changed the sensitivity on the gain knobs. Need to turn the new ones up more. My new SB2000 it almost strait up at noon.

    On this forum we all have opinions, some voice their opinion more than others. In the end we all try to help others on their audio journey. We also love to spend other peoples money.

    Enjoy your new sub, don't forget to register it for when the amp takes a dump.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.
    Family Room:LG QNED80 75", Onkyo RZ50 Emotiva XPA3 GEN3 Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM. Main: Polk LsiM 705Center: Polk LSiM 704CFront High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT Surrounds: Polk S15 Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
    Bed Room; Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270Main: Polk Signature S20Center: Polk Signature S35Rear: Polk R15 Sub: SVS SB2000
    Working Warehouse; Yamaha A-S301, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc Plok TSX550T SVS PB2000 Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
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  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,772
    mrloren wrote: »
    Glad you got your new sub and like it,



    Enjoy your new sub, don't forget to register it when the amp takes a dump.

    Fixed it for ya...

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  • mrloren
    mrloren Posts: 2,465
    ken brydson wrote: »
    mrloren wrote: »
    Glad you got your new sub and like it,



    Enjoy your new sub, don't forget to register it when the amp takes a dump.

    Fixed it for ya...

    updated it,,, edit
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.
    Family Room:LG QNED80 75", Onkyo RZ50 Emotiva XPA3 GEN3 Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM. Main: Polk LsiM 705Center: Polk LSiM 704CFront High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT Surrounds: Polk S15 Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
    Bed Room; Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270Main: Polk Signature S20Center: Polk Signature S35Rear: Polk R15 Sub: SVS SB2000
    Working Warehouse; Yamaha A-S301, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc Plok TSX550T SVS PB2000 Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
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  • PSOVLSK
    PSOVLSK Posts: 5,208
    Congrats on the new sub. Glad you’re liking it.

    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
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  • MikeUp
    MikeUp Posts: 86
    PSOVLSK wrote: »
    Congrats on the new sub. Glad you’re liking it.

    Thanks!
    On to new and better adventures
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  • MikeUp
    MikeUp Posts: 86
    Did some sound pressure level tests at different frequencies and not to bad. I changed optimizer from midroom to midwall to get a flat response.

    I now have frequencies from 30 Hz to 80 Hz (crossover at 90Hz) within 1db for most and about a 2db or 3db dip at 50z where it rises again by 53Hz or 54Hz to be within 1db again, and 30Hz having the most output.

    I did find I can't hear 25 Hz very well but my Radio Shack SPL can, and it was down about 7 db from 30Hz. I think my true room frequency -3db is right around 27Hz or 28Hz. I was shocked that the response was that flat. If I left it in midroom setting, the response went up about 3 or 4 db from 38Hz to 48Hz where I then had a dip around 50Hz, that rose back up to 80 Hz. The real difference between midwall and midroom was midroom's 38Hz to 48Hz 3db boost. It made the lower frequencies harder to hear so I'm definitely leaving it at midwall.

    I had to boost the subs volume up to 35/40 or a whopping 9 out of 10!! This left the receiver's subwoofer output at -6db to equal the SPL of the speakers. Since I like bass, I did bump it up on the receiver to -3db.

    My only real issue with this sub is it's very unusual low sensitivity. I wonder in a large living room, how much over 0db you'd have to take your receiver's sub level up. On Denon receiver's, any thing over 0db on speaker level settings subtracts from the overall volume upper output. On my Denon AVR-2312ci, if I set the Subwoofer output to it's max of +12db, my volume control max of +18db gets limited to +11.5db in Stereo and +8db in 7.1 surround sound. Probably still more than enough but I like having headroom for my CD-R recordings that I recorded with low levels to keep the peaks from being clipped off.
    On to new and better adventures
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  • MikeUp
    MikeUp Posts: 86
    edited July 2022
    MikeUp wrote: »
    I did find I can't hear 25 Hz very well but my Radio Shack SPL can, and it was down about 7 db from 30Hz. I think my true room frequency -3db is right around 27Hz or 28Hz.

    My original test frequencies were 30 -150hz in steps so I didn't have a way of testing 25 hz with that file. I had to use a sweep file that just doesn't work with the SPL meter and -7db was erroneous. The good news is that I found some new files and the actual is only -4db at 25hz from 30Hz so in room response is likely 26Hz or 27Hz at -3db with a more mild roll off down to 20Hz.

    The bad thing is that I can't hear 25Hz but I guess it's not that unusual. According to the SPL Meter, I had 25 Hz at 72 db while 30Hz and frequencies above were at 76 db. All at 13' away from sub.

    This subwoofer response is really flat right behind left main speaker. Even with hallway and kitchen openings right next to it. I guess I should nail it down where it sits, as I'll likely not get any flatter than that.

    On to new and better adventures
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  • MikeUp
    MikeUp Posts: 86
    edited July 2022
    Sensitivity issued solved. Bad manual instructions and labels on the sub itself. I gained "6db" by plugging both the left and right input jacks in, even though manual states that only the right input is needed for LFE. This is what I'd expect, a 6db gain with doubling. With both right and left connections connected with LFE=YES or LFE=NO, I gain the 6db of output

    I plugged in the left connection by itself (none LFE labeled input) and it produced bass with the LFE unfiltered signal. The Crossover knob didn't change bass. Switching to "LFE-YES" disabled the crossover in both Right and Left inputs while selecting "LFE-NO" enabled the crossover in both inputs.

    Since both line level inputs are 'enabled' when in LFE mode, leaving the left input disconnected could also cause noise since it's not terminated with a signal cable. Hense why most makers recommend a Y connector to connect both Left and Right inputs.

    Strange why this is like it is. Doesn't surprise me with the 'normal' hum in both of my Polk TL1600 subwoofers with them just plugged into a grounded household outlet (no signal cable connected). Customer service told me amp was bad so ordered another one and it did the same thing. Then read on reviews this was a normal trait of the subwoofer.

    With both Right and Left subwoofer inputs connected by using a y connector from the receiver subwoofer cable, at a 20/40 of the subwoofer volume, I only needed to go up on the receiver subwoofer level to +5db, which is close to the Jamo S808 which required +6db and the Polk TL1600 subwoofer which required +3db. My final settings to give the receiver some headroom was 31/40 with the receiver sub output at -5db. Previously with only right input connected, I had a setting of 35/40 with the subwoofer and a -6db setting out of the receiver subwoofer output.
    Post edited by MikeUp on
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  • MikeUp
    MikeUp Posts: 86
    Had some issues with the Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer and replaced it with a Klipsch R-12SWi which sounds even better on music and movies, plus is a whole lot more powerful than either the Polk or Velodyne.

    Polk subwoofer volume was 9/10 (single LFE cable) and receiver output was at -6db to equal speaker level. Obviously something wasn't right.

    Klipsch subwoofer volume is at 3/10 (as was Velodyne's volume) with a single LFE cable and receiver output is at -9db to equal speaker level. Even lower in receiver volume than the Velodyne with was at -6db to equal the speakers level.

    Plus Polk at louder levels didn't sound right and didn't have a lot of output. At lower levels sounded good. Because of the louder level sounding different, I tested the frequency response but only at 74 to 75 db.

    Klipsch by comparison shakes the house better on movies and even more so than the Velodyne.

    Thanks for the help. I know everyone will agree that this Klipsch subwoofer is the one to have. :D
    On to new and better adventures
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  • PSOVLSK
    PSOVLSK Posts: 5,208
    MikeUp wrote: »
    Thanks for the help. I know everyone will agree that this Klipsch subwoofer is the one to have. :D

    Good sense of humor🤣🤣. Enjoy your new sub.
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    MikeUp wrote: »
    Thanks for the help. I know everyone will agree that this Klipsch subwoofer is the one to have. :D
    Hey, whatever works for you and your budget.

    However, someday check out a real bottom feeder yet controlled sub. Even if you have to find a great condition used sub if new stretches your budget too much.

    Don't take it just from this group. Here's a nice little comparison site that talks about how much better the Speedwoofer 10S mkll is over the Polk HTS 10 and how the HSU VTF-2 MK5 plays even better than the Speedwoofer.

    Once you experience a "true" high performing sub, you will never go back to an entry sub. The cheapest subs from some of these internet direct companies often outperform the big box brands.

    https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-subwoofer-for-home/

    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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  • daddyjt
    daddyjt Posts: 2,547
    WLDock wrote: »
    …Once you experience a "true" high performing sub, you will never go back to an entry sub. The cheapest subs from some of these internet direct companies often outperform the big box brands…

    Straight-up truth right there.

    "Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow


    “Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    It's hard to believe that the quality of bass being generated by the Klipsch compares in any way to the Velodyne, but glad you found something that works for your needs.
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,500
    MikeUp wrote: »
    Had some issues with the Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer and replaced it with a Klipsch R-12SWi which sounds even better on music and movies, plus is a whole lot more powerful than either the Polk or Velodyne.

    What issues did you have if you don't mind me asking? I thought it was meeting all your expectations and then some. I haven't been studying this thread super closely but I'm confused :|

    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
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    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    Clipdat wrote: »
    It's hard to believe that the quality of bass being generated by the Klipsch compares in any way to the Velodyne, but glad you found something that works for your needs.

    More SPL at lower frequencies= better to the masses
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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